Iran rejects idea of a new 'Trump deal' in nuclear row

[sucit]

49 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

Only 10 more months of the stable genius baby being in charge of the play pen and then back to reality,truth,morals and ethics and hopefully a more stable world.Only down side is the world will have to find someone else to laugh at.

 

The endless war philosophy is systemic. Both parties. This is why you see Trump getting approval for more war funds for example. Notice, according to the dems, he is a conspiring Russian asset, yet they give him more money for wars?! 

 

But yeah, there is a candidate or two who do not take money from special interests. 

[TheDark]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

The JCPOA is/was creating another nation with nuclear capabilities. 
 

Care to explain, how?

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, sucit said:

The endless war philosophy is systemic. Both parties. This is why you see Trump getting approval for more war funds for example. Notice, according to the dems, he is a conspiring Russian asset, yet they give him more money for wars?! 

 

But yeah, there is a candidate or two who do not take money from special interests. 

Are there wars that Trump need to seek Congress approval that I may have missed. 
 

Who are the ‘they’ that have him more money for ‘what’ wars. 

[rabas]

34 minutes ago, TheDark said:

Care to explain, how?

Because the objective wasn't (should not have been) to make a deal. The objective should have been to deny Iran the capability to become a nuclear state in the foreseeable future.  The deal did good things for Russia and China, good business for Europeans, but did little to nothing about long term non-proliferation.

 

The deal allowed Iran to keep it's Uranium production active, able to switch to bomb grade at the turn of a valve. Iran also completed a new centrifuge factory in 2018 capable of of making the equivalent of 360 centrifuges per day. Enough to produce large numbers of bombs in short order (Reuters Iran centrifuges). Note Iran started higher grade enrichment within days of becoming unhappy.

 

I prefer a real deal to a politician's deal. "If you like your bomb, you can keep your bomb."

[TheDark]

46 minutes ago, rabas said:

Because the objective wasn't (should not have been) to make a deal. The objective should have been to deny Iran the capability to become a nuclear state in the foreseeable future.  The deal did good things for Russia and China, good business for Europeans, but did little to nothing about long term non-proliferation.

 

The deal allowed Iran to keep it's Uranium production active, able to switch to bomb grade at the turn of a valve. Iran also completed a new centrifuge factory in 2018 capable of of making the equivalent of 360 centrifuges per day. Enough to produce large numbers of bombs in short order (Reuters Iran centrifuges). Note Iran started higher grade enrichment within days of becoming unhappy.

 

I prefer a real deal to a politician's deal. "If you like your bomb, you can keep your bomb."

Iran was following the guidelines when USA was still part of the deal. After Trump hastily withdraw from the deal, Iran started to retaliate. 

 

In previous steps away from the deal, on 1 July Iran increased its stockpile of enriched uranium to beyond a 300kg maximum set by the deal, and a week later it announced it had exceeded a 3.67% cap on the purity of its uranium stocks. It fired up advanced centrifuges to boost its enriched uranium stockpiles on 7 September

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/04/irans-production-of-enriched-uranium-rises-tenfold-in-two-months

 

Nuclear reactors, generating electricity, combating the climate change, use about that level of enriched Uranium. Nuclear bombs require far more enriched Uranium in a ballpark of 90% , which is also far more difficult to do.

 

Secondary school basic science education is essential to understand at least a bit what Uranium enrichment actually means. Unfortunately far too many people still mix nuclear weapons and nuclear power together. One is like burning a log of wood in fireplace. The other is stocking black powder to explode a house.

 

The Iran deal was to allow other nations to closely monitor what Iran is actually doing with it's centrifuges. Therefore providing control that Iran can not create fission bomb material. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

he deal allowed Iran to keep it's Uranium production active, able to switch to bomb grade at the turn of a valve.

Bizarre statement that you can switch to weapon grade at the turn of a valve. The period needed to convert energy grade to bomb grade is call the ‘breakout’ period. It will take 12 months for that breakout conversion. Check it out. 
 

The JCPOA assert strong compliance and surveillance on Iran ability to make nuclear weapons. Should they start to misbehavior, the breakout period will allow the allies time to plan and remove their facilities. 

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, TheDark said:

Care to explain, how?

The economic benefits Iran raked/rakes in as a result of the agreement helps fund their nuclear program.

[sirineou]

The best way for Iran , or for that matter any nation, not to get a nuclear weapon, is to create a condition where they don't need one.

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, sucit said:

The endless war philosophy is systemic. Both parties. This is why you see Trump getting approval for more war funds for example. Notice, according to the dems, he is a conspiring Russian asset, yet they give him more money for wars?! 

 

But yeah, there is a candidate or two who do not take money from special interests. 

I think you are confusing (intentionally or otherwise) military funding with war funding.

[mogandave]

13 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Bizarre statement that you can switch to weapon grade at the turn of a valve. The period needed to convert energy grade to bomb grade is call the ‘breakout’ period. It will take 12 months for that breakout conversion. Check it out. 
 

The JCPOA assert strong compliance and surveillance on Iran ability to make nuclear weapons. Should they start to misbehavior, the breakout period will allow the allies time to plan and remove their facilities. 

Yet ALL inspections have to be scheduled and pre-approved By Iran which is much the same as having no inspections. 

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. 

 

A conspiracy trolling post and a reply has been removed. 

[rabas]

54 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Bizarre statement that you can switch to weapon grade at the turn of a valve. The period needed to convert energy grade to bomb grade is call the ‘breakout’ period. It will take 12 months for that breakout conversion. Check it out. 
 

The JCPOA assert strong compliance and surveillance on Iran ability to make nuclear weapons. Should they start to misbehavior, the breakout period will allow the allies time to plan and remove their facilities. 

No, not bizarre at all. Proof, each time Iran becomes unhappy they immediately up their enrichment to higher grades of U₂₃₅. (look it up) Theory: Enrichment factories use many lines each with many centrifuges. To make higher grade U₂₃₅, you just make fewer lines each with more centrifuges. (maybe just a valve) It is  trivial, not bizarre. 

 

So that gives the 12 month breakout, which is nothing. With their new centrifuge factory able to mass produce huge numbers of centrifuges, they can become a major producer of atomic weapons very quickly.

 

That does not prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear state for the foreseeable future.  It was not a non-proliferation deal, it was a political deal of little value to the US.

 

"the breakout period will allow the allies time to plan and remove their facilities." Please show me where that is part of the deal.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by rabas

[ChouDoufu]

6 hours ago, mogandave said:

Because they need the money.

 

Have you noticed the others members of the agreement have begun the process of reimplementing sanctions?

 

 

 

They were/are not in compliance. 
 

Why do you claim it was on a whim? Many people have been against it from the start,

 

Hilarious 

it seems as per the treaty, article 36 i believe, the restrictions on iran's civilian program became voluntary (jcpoa restrictions, not non-proliferation restrictions) once the usa backed out.

 

they waited a full year to start upping enrichment to give the other signatories time to start fulfilling their obligations.  iran had until that point been in compliance as attested to by multiple iaea reports.

 

according to the washington post, trump threatened the europeans with 25% tariffs on autos if they didn't initiate the dispute mechanism.  they responded with the complaint the following day.

 

note the iranians have said repeatedly that enrichment increases are reversible and they will return to the agreement limits once the other signatories finally begin to fulfill their obligations......still waiting after all these years........

 

 

[ChouDoufu]

so there's the endgame.  the dispute mechanism has been triggered, which leaves a total of 65 days for resolution.  if not resolved, it goes to the un security council.

 

per the agreement, the unsc must vote NOT to reimpose sanctions, a resolution the us would of course veto.  it seems un sanctions will be reimposed in 65 days.

 

i think there's more background to this.  the jcpoa was set to expire next year....september or october?  at that point, restrictions on weapons sales to iran would expire.  it wouldn't do for them to have s-400's or fighter aircraft in order to defend themselves.

 

trump and his handlers will get the war they've always wanted.  it will certainly move impeachment off the front pages, and rally 'round the flag does wonders in an election year....mustn't switch horses mid-stream y'know.

Edited January 16, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[candide]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

Yet ALL inspections have to be scheduled and pre-approved By Iran which is much the same as having no inspections. 

As often, when one cares to check your convincing statements, one finds it's not true.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-10/iran-snap-nuclear-inspections-jump-as-tensions-with-u-s-rise

Edited January 16, 2020 by candide

[ChouDoufu]

54 minutes ago, candide said:

As often, when one cares to check your convincing statements, one finds it's not true.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-10/iran-snap-nuclear-inspections-jump-as-tensions-with-u-s-rise

i understand these snap inspections and the "most robust verification system in existence" are NOT a requirement under the non-proliferation act.

 

now that the jcpoa is about to die, iran will no longer be obligated to follow increased inspection demands, which means their iaea inspection protocols will revert to the same as any other signatory.  no more special restrictions, no more snap inspections.

 

at this point they might as well give their 6-month notice and exit the non-proliferation act.

[Bluespunk]

On 1/15/2020 at 2:07 PM, snoop1130 said:

This Mr. Prime Minister in London, I don’t know how he thinks. He says let’s put aside the nuclear deal and put the Trump plan in action,” Rouhani said.

 

“If you take the wrong step, it will be to your detriment. Pick the right path. The right path is to return to the nuclear deal.”

 

Iran denies any intent to acquire nuclear weapons and says its breaches of the deal would be reversed if Washington lifts sanctions. “All of our activities are under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency(IAEA),” said Rouhani.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

21 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

What are they going to do about it? Shoot down another plane?

You  can be sure they have the capacity to do a hell of a lot  of damage beyond that of an internal misshap.

Were that to eventuate and if repercussions came to a major conflict that cost the lives of innocents and your favoured military compatriots potentially on a long term and scale...would you then feel your support  for an agenda  that cares little for anything other than the infliction of  dominance  that has very little to do with anything humanitarian on either side would be  worthy  of gloating about?

[brokenbone]

22 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

What are they going to do about it? Shoot down another plane?

are you referring to US sniping passenger planes or iran sniping drones ?

[daveAustin]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:24 PM, Tug said:

Sooo let’s seee here,you break a treaty that was beeing complied with grab a proud country by the throat tell them you will bankrupt them unless the comply to your demands kill one of their government officials in a foreign country(we haven’t done something like that overtly since we offed Yamato in ww2) and expect them to rollover?the art of the deal eehhh no don’t think they are going to buy it

Yep, that's pretty much it. Iran was a proud country. It's people are now oppressed and brainwashed. Sad.