Options for a 78-year old

[Crash999]

Hello everyone! My father has decided he wants to spend more time around the family and his grandchild and hopes to spend around 8-9 months out of the year in Thailand going forward.

 

In reviewing the process for obtaining a retirement visa it seems the biggest hurdle is the now-mandatory health insurance. From memory there was a list of government providers out there at one point though I can't seem to find the page. But I'm not sure that any provider had options for those above age 75 or so.

 

So where does that leave someone my father's age? He is actually in quite good health with no preexisting conditions aside from a stent around 7 years ago. I can see that there are international health insurance plans out there but from memory it had to be one of the Thai government's approved providers.

 

If retirement is a no-go then is Elite the only other option?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and experiences you can share.

[DrJack54]

He can easily obtain a non O based on retirement Visa. Then do annual extensions. The slight downside is that he will need to have 800k baht in THAI bank.

Or pay about 20k+ for an agent to organize this. No insurance required for either option.

Your post points towards him obtaining a non O-A in home country. IMO now not best option. Previously yes 100%

Edited January 15, 2020 by DrJack54

[Tounge Thaied]

It is highly unlikely that your father will qualify for an insurance policy for the OA retirement VISA (see link below). Two options. As DrJack54 suggests you have the non-immigrant O option. Have your father obtain the 90 day VISA Non-Immigrant O then convert to a one year on arrival Thailand. Or as you point out, go the Elite route. 500,000 baht for 5 years. Of course neither of these give a solution for health coverage while in Thailand. He may be able to qualify for a medical travel insurance to cover him when in Thailand. 
 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Tounge Thaied

[Tounge Thaied]

Call these folks and get some advice...
 

 

[DaRoadrunner]

40 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

He can easily obtain a non O based on retirement Visa. Then do annual extensions. The slight downside is that he will need to have 800k baht in THAI bank.

Or pay about 20k+ for an agent to organize this. No insurance required for either option.

Your post points towards him obtaining a non O-A in home country. IMO now not best option. Previously yes 100%

Excellent post... To which I would add:- Easiest way is to arrive on a tourist visa and convert to retirement visa here. 800K must be in Thai bank account 2 months in advance of applying for retirement visa.

[impulse]

Please tell us either your family is loaded and you don't need insurance to come out of pocket with a huge wad of cash, or that you're going to get him properly covered, even if it's not for the visa, and not by an approved Thai company. 

 

Tempting as it is to use "fly back home the the NHS" as a health care plan, that's not how accidents happen and certainly wouldn't have worked for my bypass surgery in BKK.  Lots of stories about young, perfectly healthy Brits, Aussies, Americans, etc doing GoFundMe's because they couldn't just get on a plane with a gaping wound or bad disease.  At 78, I suspect the risk is even greater.

 

If you're loaded, please disregard...

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by impulse

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Excellent post... To which I would add:- Easiest way is to arrive on a tourist visa and convert to retirement visa here. 800K must be in Thai bank account 2 months in advance of applying for retirement visa.

Correct. Added comment is that he need show funds in Thai bank came from outside of thailand because of doing "conversion" within Thailand.

To avoid that requirement you can obtain no o at nearby country. 

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

Please tell us either your family is loaded and you don't need insurance to come out of pocket with a huge wad of cash, or that you're going to get him properly covered, even if it's not for the visa, and not by an approved Thai company. 

 

Tempting as it is to use "fly back home the the NHS" as a health care plan, that's not how accidents happen and certainly wouldn't have worked for my bypass surgery in BKK.  Lots of stories about young, perfectly healthy Brits, Aussies, Americans, etc doing GoFundMe's because they couldn't just get on a plane with a gaping wound or bad disease.  At 78, I suspect the risk is even greater.

 

If you're loaded, please disregard...

 

OP was asking about useless Thai health insurance re non O-A  There are much better options to provide cover independent of the useless Thai insurance. 

So your fall back position is anyone over XYZ years of age needs to live in home country! 

Edited January 15, 2020 by DrJack54

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

OP was asking about useless Thai health insurance re non O-A  There are much better options to provide cover independent of the useless Thai insurance. 

So your fall back position is anyone over XYZ years of age needs to live in home country! 

 

I'd suggest people of any age stay in their home country if they're not covered for medical emergencies abroad.  Whether that cover is from their bank account, their family's wealth, or an insurance policy.  

 

 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I'd suggest people of any age stay in their home country if they're not covered for medical emergencies abroad.  Whether that cover is from their bank account, their family's wealth, or an insurance policy.  

 

 

Hell's bells. Read the OP. Refered to compulsory THAI health insurance. That insurance will not repatriate you to home country.  Also not cover serious health requirement in thailand.  It has useless coverage. 

The op best obtain alternative coverage.

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, Crash999 said:

Hello everyone! My father has decided he wants to spend more time around the family and his grandchild and hopes to spend around 8-9 months out of the year in Thailand going forward.

 

What is your own status of permission to stay in Thailand? I am asking because if you are on a one-year extension of stay and depending on the reason for that extension, your father might be able to get a so-called dependent extension, without any compulsory Thai insurance.

[Odysseus123]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I'd suggest people of any age stay in their home country if they're not covered for medical emergencies abroad.  Whether that cover is from their bank account, their family's wealth, or an insurance policy.  

 

 

A very sane post.

 

It is what it is.

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

He can easily obtain a non O based on retirement Visa. Then do annual extensions. The slight downside is that he will need to have 800k baht in THAI bank.

Or proof of 65k baht income or a combination of money in the bank and income totaling 800k baht.

 

[Sheryl]

At 78 he cannot get an immigration approved local  policy (well actually there is one he can get, but it will cut him off when he turns 80 so little point).

 

However, as he will only spend 7-8 months a year here annual  OA visas with international insurance is an option.  For the initial visa issuance a foreign policy can be used and at 78 he can get one though it may exclude cardiovascular disease. Either Cigna Global expat policy or a travel policy if he can find one that will cover the full duration of his stay.  He will need to have the insurer sign a certificate which you can find on the longstay visa website. If they are unwilling to sign (some are due to how the form is worded) some Embassies and Consulates will accept the actual policy documents instead -- need to ask at the Embassy/Consulate involved.

 

Under this scenario he would need to repeat the process anually with a new visa issued in his home country each time as he cannot do an extension of stat in-country on an OA visa with  foreign insurance, but he can get a new visa back home once the first OA has expired.

 

Alternatives would be:

 

- O visa and extension of stay incountry as others have explained - has financial requirements (money brought into Thailand) and might not be possible to get in his home country depending on where he lives, but could enter Visa Exempt and apply to change to O visa incountry then do the extension (assuming he meets the Financial requirement).. He will then have to be incountry each year when the permission to stay expires to extend ir. Should be sure to get a re-entry permit for his trips back home or the permission of stay will be voided.

 

- Thai Visa Elite as others have also described. Hassle free but cost 500k for 5 years.

 

_ Multi entry tourist visa. He would have to leave after 3 months and then re enter but if he would be happy spending say 3 months at a time twice a year this might work. Trying to stay more the 6 months might run into problems depending on the whim of the immigration office at entry point but up to 6 months (either 3 entries staying 2 months or 2 entries each ectended by 30 days) should be fine.

 

Regardless he should not come here uninsured, should have at least a travel policy that covers emergency care and repatriation. That being the case, and since he is not wanting to live here full time just spend more time here, if it were me I'd first try the annual OA approach. If it fails because he cannot get a proof of insurance that the Embassy will accept then move on to one of the other alternatives all of which have their pluses and minuses.

 

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Excellent post... To which I would add:- Easiest way is to arrive on a tourist visa and convert to retirement visa here. 800K must be in Thai bank account 2 months in advance of applying for retirement visa.

The OPs dad should use an reputable agent, as one poster suggested, most of them are, and save a lot of hassle.

[Suradit69]

19 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Have your father obtain the 90 day VISA Non-Immigrant O then convert to a one year on arrival Thailand.

Are non Imm o visas based on retirement available everywhere? I thought only the non Imm O-A was available for retirement in some countries. I didn't notice where his father's home country is.

 

Even if he manages  to get the non O, it's a bit misleading to say he could "convert" to a one year (extension of stay) on arrival in Thailand.  The extension could be applied for about 60 days after arrival.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Suradit69

[Odysseus123]

78 years old?

 

Burn no bridges...

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

The OPs dad should use an reputable agent, as one poster suggested, most of them are, and save a lot of hassle.

A 'reputable' agent will only help you to expedite your application based on the correct paperwork.  False evidence of funds, which is often why people use agents, does not qualify an agent as being 'reputable'!

 

One day, maybe, these 'agents' will be shut down.

[Just Weird]

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

19 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Excellent post... To which I would add:- Easiest way is to arrive on a tourist visa and convert to retirement visa here. 800K must be in Thai bank account 2 months in advance of applying for retirement visa.

Correct. Added comment is that he need show funds in Thai bank came from outside of thailand

B800k funds for retirement qualification do not have to come from outside Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

14 hours ago, Maestro said:

What is your own status of permission to stay in Thailand? I am asking because if you are on a one-year extension of stay and depending on the reason for that extension, your father might be able to get a so-called dependent extension, without any compulsory Thai insurance.

Quoting your post to bring it back to life again after several post were made that did not even pay attention to it.

From the police order for extensions of stay.

"2.20 In the case of being a family member of an alien permitted a
temporary stay in the Kingdom under Criteria 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6,
2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16,
2.17, 2.21, 2.22, 2.26, or 2.29 hereof

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must be 50 years of age or over."

 

No insurance or financial proof is needed.

 

 

[stouricks]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

The OPs dad should use an reputable agent, as one poster suggested, most of them are, and save a lot of hassle.

How can an agent, who is doing something illegal, be reputable.

 

Sorry HHTel,I posted before reading your reply to Possum.

Edited January 16, 2020 by stouricks

[Capt Rob]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Quoting your post to bring it back to life again after several post were made that did not even pay attention to it.

From the police order for extensions of stay.

"2.20 In the case of being a family member of an alien permitted a
temporary stay in the Kingdom under Criteria 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6,
2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16,
2.17, 2.21, 2.22, 2.26, or 2.29 hereof

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must be 50 years of age or over."

 

No insurance or financial proof is needed.

 

 

U/J's post seems to cover the administrative aspect - for travel insurance some 'card' companies on the platinum level, will offer a travel insurance policy providing inter alia, travel for a lesser period than six months and card useage to purchase o/s travel within stipulated period

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

B800k funds for retirement qualification do not have to come from outside Thailand.

Just usual rubbish from you. If you do "conversion" to non o from visa exempt or setv within Thailand at imm you need to show funds came from outside of Thailand. If however you obtain non o from consulate outside of Thailand then that is not required.

 

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, stouricks said:

How can an agent, who is doing something illegal, be reputable.

 

Sorry HHTel,I posted before reading your reply to Possum.

It is not illegal.

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

B800k funds for retirement qualification do not have to come from outside Thailand.

Only if non o is obtained at consulate outside of los.

[Max69xl]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:47 PM, Tounge Thaied said:

It is highly unlikely that your father will qualify for an insurance policy for the OA retirement VISA (see link below). Two options. As DrJack54 suggests you have the non-immigrant O option. Have your father obtain the 90 day VISA Non-Immigrant O then convert to a one year on arrival Thailand. Or as you point out, go the Elite route. 500,000 baht for 5 years. Of course neither of these give a solution for health coverage while in Thailand. He may be able to qualify for a medical travel insurance to cover him when in Thailand. 
 

 

The Elite Visa for 500,000 baht isn't the best option for a 78 year old. 

If he doesn't have a bank account in Thailand already, then entering Thailand on a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa could be problematic because he needs 800k in the bank 2 months before applying for the 1 year extension. It might be tight opening an account and transfer the money in time. Better go for the 60 days tourist visa and convert it to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa at the local immigration office. 

[Crash999]

Hello Everyone,

 

Thank you so much for your fantastic replies. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. It's amazing how much contradictory or incomplete information there is on various websites out there.

 

It seems that given OA would be interesting as it can be issued right away (maybe... his nearest Thai embassy is Lisbon which is tiny and has little info online) but an issue is insurance given his age and the financial requirement which he hasn't done yet.

 

My thinking is as Max69xl suggested to have him enter on a 60-day tourist visa, open a bank account right away (which may take some hunting around), transfer money in, get a month's extension, and try to switch over to an O visa after two months have passed. Timing seems tight but otherwise I can't see a way for it to work. Then from the 3-month O visa get an extension based on retirement (aka retirement visa). Then during the year that is valid he goes back to Portugal for a few months break and comes back before the extended O visa expires so he can extend it again.

 

Does that sound workable?

 

I'm thinking we should get an agent to hold our hand through the process. If anyone has any recommendations please let me know.

 

Regarding insurance, even if we get an O visa for him he will need to get coverage in case of emergencies. Totally agree that one can't rely on going back to Europe and getting things done there.

[Crash999]

20 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

What is your own status of permission to stay in Thailand? I am asking because if you are on a one-year extension of stay and depending on the reason for that extension, your father might be able to get a so-called dependent extension, without any compulsory Thai insurance.

That's a very good thought and could simplify things a lot given no financial requirement. I'm on a B-visa and uhh... I guess an annual extension. To be honest I never gave too much thought about my own visa status as our company employs someone to tell me where to go at Chaeng Wattana and what to do. I should have paid more attention.

 

If he could be a dependent then that would be an interesting alternative. Only drawback is if I were to go elsewhere in the region for work for a year or two then he'd have to get another visa, though I suppose we could cross that bridge when we come to it.

[HHTel]

6 hours ago, possum1931 said:

It is not illegal.

How so?  Enlighten me.

Below is the grey area that's currently being used.  Also taking 'bribes' as an immigration officer is a criminal offence.

 

As I understand it, senior immigration officials have discretion to waive seasoning requirements. This is within the rules.

If agents can come to an arrangement with a sufficiently senior official, there is nothing intrinsically illegal about what they are doing. 

However, it is an abuse of discretion and depending on how well connected the official is, he could end up in serious trouble. 

Waiving finances altogether is not within the discretion given to officials at the level of head of an individual immigration office.

 

In summary, you can get away with it for a while, but eventually, depending on the voracity of immigration officials, it will be stopped.  Several agents have been arrested since the new rules came in.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, HHTel said:

How so?  Enlighten me.

Below is the grey area that's currently being used.  Also taking 'bribes' as an immigration officer is a criminal offence.

 

As I understand it, senior immigration officials have discretion to waive seasoning requirements. This is within the rules.

If agents can come to an arrangement with a sufficiently senior official, there is nothing intrinsically illegal about what they are doing. 

However, it is an abuse of discretion and depending on how well connected the official is, he could end up in serious trouble. 

Waiving finances altogether is not within the discretion given to officials at the level of head of an individual immigration office.

 

In summary, you can get away with it for a while, but eventually, depending on the voracity of immigration officials, it will be stopped.  Several agents have been arrested since the new rules came in.

Would you care to name these agents?