Education Visa Rejection in Kuala Lumpur

[siesasi]

Today I got rejected at the Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur applying for an Education Visa. I write this post not to complain about Thailand, but to explain my case, so other members avoid to loss money, time and patience.

A short story of me: I am from Barcelona (Spain), 29 years old, software engineer. I came first time to Thailand in 2016 and fell in love with the country. I also visited nearby countries, which weren't as pleasent as LOS in my opinion. After six months moving around, I decided to settle down in Bangkok in September 2017. I lived on Tourist Visas for ~8 months, after this period Thai Immigration Officers in Don Mueang invited me politely to go back to my country. And so I did.

I came back to Spain in June 2017 and I worked there for 2 years, saving every single penny to come back to Thailand. Finally, in July 2019 I came back to Bangkok. Second try.

When I came back again in 2019, I noticed two things:

1. Immigration Officers were stricter than a couple of years ago. From the three times I entered the country by plane in Don Mueang, two times I got asked what I was doing in Thailand. This didn't feel good, since I am an introvert and I feel intimidated every time I got asked what I am doing in the country. My answer was always similar: "just living with my girlfriend".

2. There are a lot of people applying for Tourist Visas in Kuala Lumpur. Now you need to make online appointments before visiting the embassy. The embassy is even more overcrowded as it was circa 2016. 

In November 2019, when I was stopped at the immigration control, I was invited to go back to my country beacuse I had three Tourist Visas on a row. Politely I asked the Immigration Officer if he could tell me what would he do in my case:

1. I can't work in Thailand because I am immigrant and thai people have preference.
2. I can't work online because it's illegal.
3. I can't stay long term with tourist visas.

He told me to marry, to buy a Thai Elite Visa or to apply for an Education Visa and to study thai. So, I took the third option.

If you want to stay in a country long term, it's a reasonable good idea to know how to speak the language. So I found a good academy near Asoke: 30000 baht for 8 months. Before applying, I asked to the academy consultant if I had a minimum chance to get rejected on a nearby embassy. She told me that I was young, well educated, I wasn't doing anything wrong and the chances to get rejected were approximately zero. I insisted many times on this topic, because I was risking time and money (6500 THB from the application plus 300 MYR from the malaysian embassy).

After preparing all the documents from the academy and having the Ministry of Education Approval letter (~2 weeks), I went to Kuala Lumpur and applied for Education Visa yesterday. Today I got rejected without any reason. They only told me that my documents were okay, no problems with them at all, but since my first entry in Thailand was in July 2019 and I didn't go back to my country, they couldn't approve the ED Visa. I said thank you, took my passport and went back to my hotel very sad. 

I love Thailand. It's an amazing country and I would live there for sure if I had the option. The problem is that I don't see any viable option for me, as a young man, to live there long term.

Today I could say that Thailand will beg for european tourists in the future. But it will be entitled and not true. Thailand is changing and I understand that they want to avoid people who are just messing around.

 

Anyway, if someone could tell me, before applying for a thai language course, that I wouldn't be approved, I would have accepted it and go back home. But going through the whole process and being rejected at the very last, it's painful and it makes non-sense to me. So, if you are on a similar situation, know that you have chances to get rejected. Don't loss time and money...

Edited January 16, 2020 by siesasi

[olfu]

My impression is that staying in your native country and saving money for future is best option.

[BritTim]

19 minutes ago, olfu said:

My impression is that staying in your native country and saving money for future is best option.

There are two approaches to life:

• Spend your best years preparing for a comfortable retirement by staying in your home country and making work your priority.
• Insofar as funds allow, travel the world and experience life when you are at the age when you can most enjoy it.

I get the impression that the OP falls into the second category, and is trying to follow his dreams without being irresponsible about it. I should note that I had much the same approach to life when I was around his age.

 

I am sorry for the OP. He had no reason to believe that spending time enjoying himself in Thailand without working was going to be a problem. There is no logical reason why Thailand should wish to deter visitors like himself.

[Number 6]

Your English is excellent for a second language. Why don't you get a job teaching? The hiring season is right around the corner. Late March until mid May.

 

A few computer jrelated jobs about even!

 

You can write better than every Filipino I've ever known save for two.

 

I certainly would have told you it's a crapshoot. In fact, saw this post and came here to comment on the folly of even trying as you did but you've learned the lesson obviously.

 

Education visas are B S. They are the dread of the under fifties the way the income method is for retirees. It MIGHT work once but the idea it will carry you for years is a wet dream.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Number 6

[UKresonant]

8 hours ago, olfu said:

My impression is that staying in your native country and saving money for future is best option.

Yes, you could save for years, looking forward to staying in Thailand more often. Then 8 months in they move the goal posts on the regulations. Then 14 months in (in time, not time in Thailand even) then they stop issuing the Visa type (in your home country) you had planned to use (at least for a number of years). Then 18 months in they make an alternative Visa Type non-viable by adding, a less than perfectly designed insurance requirement.

So you could do your suggestion and still end up feeling a bit disappointed. Timelines and plans can be derailed by random events, its like driving in Thailand....

Edited January 16, 2020 by UKresonant

[sucit]

Who you have to thank are all the people who have abused education visas in the past. That is the way I see it at least. 

[shy coconut]

I think that the 2 times immigration asked you to return to your country may 

well be the reason behind your rejection.

 

As far as I'm aware, they only ask you to leave when you have stayed too long.

 

This may well put up a flag on your passport, although I'm not sure the embassy

issuing visas has access to the immigration database.

[Salerno]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

There is no logical reason why Thailand should wish to deter visitors like himself.

Other than the fact governments of countries like to decide who gets to live in them.

[SpanishExpat]

Language school in Asoke...is it ProLanguage? They are on the blacklist and that might be the reason. If you would have applied for the ED in Spain , I am sure you would have gotten it. 

[Ventenio]

11 hours ago, BritTim said:

There are two approaches to life:

• Spend your best years preparing for a comfortable retirement by staying in your home country and making work your priority.
• Insofar as funds allow, travel the world and experience life when you are at the age when you can most enjoy it.

 

No and Yes.  Can you tell all of us which AGE we are at when we can MOST enjoy it.  In our 20's from a rich country?  Well, we would have the energy to enjoy it but lose out on bonding with friends back home and going back home with a massive insecurity (I"ve seen this a lot).  Or in our 20's and 30's trying to explain everyday to people why we are traveling and most have no identity and no past career and no respect for themselves and they are simply losers traveling.

 

Nobody has this answer, but I would say you are much better off traveling in your 40's.  You had a career, you have money, you have confidence, and of course you can enjoy it.  if you are fit at 30, you will be fit at 40.  

 

I'm talking about staying here for 6 months or more.  Yes, he can teach English as a non-native speaker, which means he will be further disrespected by many people at school comparing him to a native speaker.  He will also be paid much less.  From a pride point-of-view, I can't imagine this pleasant in your 20's.  or ever.  

[spiekerjozef]

Of course you still have the paperwork from your language school.

So take that with you to a thai embassy in your own country and you will have no problem getting an ED visa.

[LivinLOS]

 

Quote

A short story of me: I am from Barcelona (Spain), 29 years old, software engineer. 

 

Quote

The problem is that I don't see any viable option for me, as a young man, to live there long term.

Get a remote software job with your skills. 

 

Apply at one of 3 or 4 BOI registered umbrella companies for a legal tax paying work permit providing system. 

 

Pay taxes for 3 years, learn Thai, work toward the possible citizenship process that is available to people paying taxes. 

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, sucit said:

Who you have to thank are all the people who have abused education visas in the past. That is the way I see it at least. 

Exactly.. all those people abusing the tourist visas and then ED visas and then (whatever loop hole they try to exploit next) for long term stay on visas not designed for it, are making life worse for everyone else. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Ventenio said:

No and Yes.  Can you tell all of us which AGE we are at when we can MOST enjoy it.  In our 20's from a rich country?  Well, we would have the energy to enjoy it but lose out on bonding with friends back home and going back home with a massive insecurity (I"ve seen this a lot).  Or in our 20's and 30's trying to explain everyday to people why we are traveling and most have no identity and no past career and no respect for themselves and they are simply losers traveling.

 

Nobody has this answer, but I would say you are much better off traveling in your 40's.  You had a career, you have money, you have confidence, and of course you can enjoy it.  if you are fit at 30, you will be fit at 40.  

But people gain responsibilities.. wives, mortgages, homes even pets.. Which make the kind of freedom you have in your 20s very different.. Plus your tolerance to rough it and travel cheap is often greatly diminished. 

 

I do agree with you very much that every year spent in the developing world you fall further and further behind someone who is living in the west.. In work and career experiences and options, in savings and pensions, in also strange intangibles like culture art and development.. It can be done but only with those who really can make a lot in asia or who make so much in thier time in the west they have enough head start to waste. 

[yokat]

15 hours ago, siesasi said:

1. I can't work in Thailand because I am immigrant and thai people have preference.

That's simply wrong, I work for a small BOI company that has been looking for software engineers in BKK for some time now, my boss is fond of western engineers but he doesn't see any fitting applicant. Check JobsDB and LinkedIn, it's full of companies ready to sponsor a skilled SE.

[FritsSikkink]

You can work here depending on your experience. PM me and I can see what I can do for you.

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Apply at one of 3 or 4 BOI registered umbrella companies for a legal tax paying work permit providing system. 

Hasn't that business model come under scrutinize and effectively been shut down? I remember reading on here that Iglu (probably the most prominent of those umbrella companies) ran into trouble and had to stop hiring people.

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, yokat said:

That's simply wrong, I work for a small BOI company that has been looking for software engineers in BKK for some time now, my boss is fond of western engineers but he doesn't see any fitting applicant. Check JobsDB and LinkedIn, it's full of companies ready to sponsor a skilled SE.

Regarding jobs as a programmer in Bangkok, the offers are quite pathetic.

 

There's 5!! jobs on jobdb that are willing to pay 100.000 THB which is already an absolute low salary for a programmer.

 

2 of them say this, explicitly: 

Thai nationality, Male or Female, Age 28-40 years old.

 

1 wants at least: 

5 - 15 years experience in software development

 

Another one:

At least 5 years experience in programming

 

That leaves him with what, like one available job in BKK? ...

 

There's not a single job paying over 130 000 THB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You might as well work as a teacher. 

[yokat]

- I was hired on an ad that required 10 years of experience when I had just 3

- The salary is indeed low if you compare to what's available in other countries, I personally make about 80% the average salary for a similar junior position in France

 

Once you remove your arbitrary 100k-130k/month salary limitations there are options. The guy is ready to pay to stay here, why not getting a salary instead ?

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by yokat

[bwpage3]

You seem to have a history of flouting the system and living on tourist visa's.

 

If you cannot meet the visa and financial requirements, Thailand doesn't want you here.

 

You have to find a way to meet the requirements, like everyone else, if you want to stay

[BigFun]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Exactly.. all those people abusing the tourist visas and then ED visas and then (whatever loop hole they try to exploit next) for long term stay on visas not designed for it, are making life worse for everyone else. 

I'm not pro perennial study visas but shouldnt the govt have legislated against abuse before? 

The OP could also open a Thai company and obtain a Visa that way but requirements for Work permits are changing daily too. Would these things be such issues without the nepotism? Hmmm 

[jimn]

19 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Your English is excellent for a second language. Why don't you get a job teaching? The hiring season is right around the corner. Late March until mid May.

 

A few computer jrelated jobs about even!

 

You can write better than every Filipino I've ever known save for two.

The OP writes "A short story of me: I am from Barcelona (Spain), 29 years old, software engineer."

Did you bother to read it properly. Why do you think he is a Filipino?

[BritTim]

44 minutes ago, jimn said:

The OP writes "A short story of me: I am from Barcelona (Spain), 29 years old, software engineer."

Did you bother to read it properly. Why do you think he is a Filipino?

There was no implication that the OP was a Filipino.  The post you replied to was contrasting the OP's English to that of Filipinos often employed as English speaking teachers.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

Hasn't that business model come under scrutinize and effectively been shut down? I remember reading on here that Iglu (probably the most prominent of those umbrella companies) ran into trouble and had to stop hiring people.

I am unsure if they had issues.. I do know they are concentrating on thier core proposition which I believe is companies relocating remote tech workers in groups. 

 

When you look at the upsides for a scandivaian tech company, its huge.. 

[jimn]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

There was no implication that the OP was a Filipino.  The post you replied to was contrasting the OP's English to that of Filipinos often employed as English speaking teachers.

Sorry Tim I beg to differ. The poster mentioned Filipino's in his post. I have just read it again, it it reads to me that he thinks the OP is a Filipino. No problem, not worth further discussion. 

[UKJASE]

i went to KL other day for tourist visa.  i was successful thankfully

 

on the plane back to hua hin i met a guy who told me 4 people went to penang for ED visas and all 4 got refused.  He was trying for his first ED visa.  Similar age to OP

[gearbox]

You are 29 yo software engineer...I suggest you drop everything else and concentrate your effort to get a software engineering  job with good future prospects. Once you get good experience and skills you can work everywhere. You can just buy Elite visa here and work remotely for a lot of major companies which allow remote work and pay competitively. Don't waste your time with ed visa BS, you'll regret it later. You are Spanish, you can get a job anywhere in Europe without the need of work permit.

 

The only bunch of software engineers I've seen around and their stay made a lot of sense was a group from Oz who were working on a startup, they were here on tourist visas and here the cash burns slower...but I don't believe this is your case.

 

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, jimn said:

Sorry Tim I beg to differ. The poster mentioned Filipino's in his post. I have just read it again, it it reads to me that he thinks the OP is a Filipino. No problem, not worth further discussion. 

Is that a joke! Tim is completely correct. The post you refer to is in no way implying that he was thinking the OP is Filipino. 

Rather commenting on expert skills of English from a someone from Spain. 

Thinking OP has better comprehensive skills than you.

[EricTh]

Siesasi....

 

Thanks for reporting your experience here because yours is the first such case I have read here.

 

Yes, immigration officers have been getting tougher on people staying long-term abusing their tourist visa starting from last year when I have seen many rejected cases reported in this forum.

 

I have also seen many people switching to education visa just to stay in Thailand but yours is the first case that was rejected. Maybe the Kuala Lumpur office was stricter, did you get back your application fees etc, and school fees from Bangkok?

 

What other long-term stayers did was to enter via other ports that is less strict (not Don Meung or Bangkok).

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by EricTh

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Siesasi....

 

Thanks for reporting your experience here because yours is the first such case I have read here.

 

Yes, immigration officers have been getting tougher on people staying long-term abusing their tourist visa starting from last year when I have seen many rejected cases reported in this forum.

 

I have also seen many people switching to education visa just to stay in Thailand but yours is the first case that was rejected. Maybe the Kuala Lumpur office was stricter, did you get back your application fees etc, and school fees from Bangkok?

 

What other long-term stayers did was to enter via other ports that is less strict (not Don Meung or Bangkok).

 

 

I can assure its not first case. More common is the reverse. Meaning after previous Ed visa then trying to obtain a setv. Yes I agree with your comment re DM.

One guy stuck in Saigon with exhausted visa exempt border entries and void stamp was able to fly Saigon to CNX. Obtained visa exempt. Why do folk do this.