TG pilot under probe in Frankfurt for alleged violation of aviation safety standards

[webfact]

TG pilot under probe in Frankfurt for alleged violation of aviation safety standards

 

©thethaiger.com

 

A pilot, employed by Thai Airways International, the national flag carrier, is being investigated by Germany’s BFU (Bundesstelle für Flugunfalluntersuchung/Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation) for descending below the standard altitude as his flight was approaching Frankfurt international airport.

 

According to Outsider’s Aviation Facebook page, the THAI’s Airbus A350-900 flight TG926, from Phuket to Frankfurt, was approaching Frankfurt airport at an altitude of 800 feet above ground, or 1,150 feet above mean sea level, which is below the standard safe minimum altitude.

 

The pilot decided to initiate a go-around and took the plane up to about 5,000-feet before landing successfully.  The plane landed safely on 07R runway about 15 minutes after the first attempt, according to Outsider’s Aviation.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/tg-pilot-under-probe-in-frankfurt-for-alleged-violation-of-aviation-safety-standards/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2020-01-17

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[PatOngo]

Surely not Thai's fault! Will be interesting to see where they lay blame. External factors? Spin this one Kh Sumeth!

[observer90210]

Scary....are they trained by the toughest international standards ? ...or is the primary training on Flight Simulator V ?

[Bob12345]

The pilot probably had the right last name or family contacts to get the job, hope he will lose it just as easily now. 

[RotBenz8888]

Passengers as safe as on a motorbike taxi.

[legend49]

Just gave me another reason why I never fly Thai.

[ChipButty]

Ve have vays of making you talk

[NanLaew]

The inveterate Thai  (and THAI) bashers are simply gonna love this thread so specially, just for you...

 

Brake failure!

[Dumbastheycome]

The assumption being made is that "of course" the Pilot is  Thai ?

[Katipo]

As someone who is flying Thai to Frankfurt this evening, this troubles me ever so slightly ????

[30la]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

A pilot, employed by Thai Airways International, the national flag carrier, is being investigated by Germany’s BFU (Bundesstelle für Flugunfalluntersuchung/Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation) for descending below the standard altitude as his flight was approaching Frankfurt international airport.

Microsleep again? It seems that it is truly a Thai disease!

[ChipButty]

37 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The assumption being made is that "of course" the Pilot is  Thai ?

I think Thai only employ Thai pilots

Maybe he like a good probing 

Edited January 17, 2020 by ChipButty

[Dumbastheycome]

17 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I think Thai only employ Thai pilots

You  could be right. I know that is current policy. But has not always been so.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Surely not Thai's fault! Will be interesting to see where they lay blame. External factors? Spin this one Kh Sumeth!

Can only be one cause.... he was flying the aircraft!

By that I mean as he was on final approach flying manually, he was not using the auto-pilot ILS system which navigates and lands the aircraft for you, the only thing the pilot has to do in "auot/mode" is retard the aircraft about 40ft from the ground & initiate the trust reverse at the appropriate time after touch down.

He obviously dis-engaged the auto-pilot at some stage during the descent/approach and screwed up!

[Gandtee]

Did I not read a few weeks ago that Thai trained pilots find it hard to get jobs with the major airlines? I wonder why?

[fxe1200]

30 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

Did I not read a few weeks ago that Thai trained pilots find it hard to get jobs with the major airlines? I wonder why?

"The safety rating is important for Thailand. After all, without a Category 1 rating, Thai airlines cannot fly to the United States or enter codeshare agreements with U.S. air carriers. Thai Airways used to serve destinations in the United States."

 

Only three more countries fall into the same(No. 2) category: Bangladesh, Curacao, and Ghana.

 

May be the EU should follow the US example and ban Thai Airways to operate flights into and out of Europe.

[tso310]

45 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

You  could be right. I know that is current policy. But has not always been so.

I know someone who was a Thai captain (he's a Brit). The policy for Thai only pilots was begun in the mid 90s. He moved to Singapore who he says was the best airline he ever flew for.

[Grusa]

I knew a TG senior pilot, now thankfully deceased, who went on after retirement from TG to fly with other Thai airlines. He was a keen light aircraft pilot and owner. He was a likeable, but often also an arrogant, ignorant, and incompetent hiso <deleted>.

He had many avoidable accidents in his and others' light aircraft. Blame was always deflected to weather, mechanics, or system failures, when in fact pilot stupidity was invariably the cause. The one that killed him (and seriously injured three passengers) was blamed on "wind". In fact the aircraft was overloaded, underpowered, and he was showing off at low altitude in the face of a mountain. Stupidity.

[Happy Grumpy]

6 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Surely not Thai's fault! Will be interesting to see where they lay blame.

The ground suddenly moved towards the plane. The skilled Thai pilot then iniated a highly skillful go-around maneuver, as it had moved to only 800 feet of the plane. 

[wpcoe]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

...the only thing the pilot has to do in "auot/mode" is retard the aircraft about 40ft from the ground & initiate the trust reverse at the appropriate time after touch down.

I'd say this pilot did a good job of initiating trust reversal.  He probably reversed the trust folks might have in THAI.

[Letseng]

5 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Scary....are they trained by the toughest international standards ? ...or is the primary training on Flight Simulator V ?

Supercilious German attitude.

 

[tifino]

56 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I knew a TG senior pilot, now thankfully deceased, who went on after retirement from TG to fly with other Thai airlines. He was a keen light aircraft pilot and owner. He was a likeable, but often also an arrogant, ignorant, and incompetent hiso <deleted>.

He had many avoidable accidents in his and others' light aircraft. Blame was always deflected to weather, mechanics, or system failures, when in fact pilot stupidity was invariably the cause. The one that killed him (and seriously injured three passengers) was blamed on "wind". In fact the aircraft was overloaded, underpowered, and he was showing off at low altitude in the face of a mountain. Stupidity.

how did he manage to deflect the blame (to 'wind' ) if the accident killed him too?     

Was he yelling excuses to the passengers, before impact?

[Khun Paul]

3 hours ago, legend49 said:

Just gave me another reason why I never fly Thai.

Expensive, poor customer service, useless staff, any more ??

 

[hotchilli]

17 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

I'd say this pilot did a good job of initiating trust reversal.  He probably reversed the trust folks might have in THAI.

you spotted my "pun" well done

[BobbyL]

I imagine the fake news team will block this from being released in the Thai language media. 

[Fore Man]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Can only be one cause.... he was flying the aircraft!

By that I mean as he was on final approach flying manually, he was not using the auto-pilot ILS system which navigates and lands the aircraft for you, the only thing the pilot has to do in "auot/mode" is retard the aircraft about 40ft from the ground & initiate the trust reverse at the appropriate time after touch down.

He obviously dis-engaged the auto-pilot at some stage during the descent/approach and screwed up!

As a former aviator, I am sure that is probably exactly what happened. You do not fly into any major TCA...must always be under ILS approach guidance unless an emergency was declared requiring manual flight control.  

[NaamGin]

The minimum altitude for large turbine aircraft is 1500' AGL (above ground level) and a speed of 250 knots in a terminal service area, except for the purpose of taking off or landing.  Once the ILS is intercepted the MDA/H (minimum descent altitude/height) for an large turbine aircraft is 250' AGL. Procedures call for a missed approach if these minimums are busted. If the aircraft busted minimums at 800' AGL this means the aircraft had not intercepted the ILS yet. 

 

Many factors could have come into play causing the aircraft to descend below minimums, including pilot error, weather, downdrafts, microbursts, etc. Without more information regarding this incident which is not available it is impossible to determine exactly what happened. The main thing is that the crew determined that the aircraft was below minimums and effected a go-around, although busting minimums by 700' is no joke.

[Isaanbiker]

I remember when TG had not even one pilot who flew the plane internationally.

 

   That must have changed when they had a 10 minute English course on  one of Yingluck's tablets.

 

  He obviously made a huge mistake that should cost him his license.

 

   I'm certain that the tower has warned him that he came in too low, but would a Thai admit that?

 

   Next one. please. 

 

   

 

 

[Peterbilt]

1 hour ago, NaamGin said:

The minimum altitude for large turbine aircraft is 1500' AGL (above ground level) and a speed of 250 knots in a terminal service area, except for the purpose of taking off or landing.  Once the ILS is intercepted the MDA/H (minimum descent altitude/height) for an large turbine aircraft is 250' AGL. Procedures call for a missed approach if these minimums are busted. If the aircraft busted minimums at 800' AGL this means the aircraft had not intercepted the ILS yet. 

 

Many factors could have come into play causing the aircraft to descend below minimums, including pilot error, weather, downdrafts, microbursts, etc. Without more information regarding this incident which is not available it is impossible to determine exactly what happened. The main thing is that the crew determined that the aircraft was below minimums and effected a go-around, although busting minimums by 700' is no joke.

Here's the report on avherald, including the METARs and some postings of eye whitnesses who live nearby EDDF.
I live approx. 30 miles west of FRA (EDDF) and can say that the weather on that day was fine.
Typical high pressure (METAR: Q1032, thats 1,032 hPa!)  winter weather in this area. Temperatures way below 10°C, no storms (METAR: Wind 8 kt /50-60 degrees) or even thunderstorms.

TG 350 incident

Edited January 17, 2020 by Peterbilt
additions

[trainman34014]

3 hours ago, Gandtee said:

Did I not read a few weeks ago that Thai trained pilots find it hard to get jobs with the major airlines? I wonder why?

Only other Airlines that offer them jobs are stringbag outfits in Africa, because even Crop Dusting Pilots don't fancy flying completely unmaintained Aircraft.