Sanders climbs, now tied with Biden among registered voters - Reuters/Ipsos poll

[lannarebirth]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It astounds me that the Dems are so desperate that they would even consider Bernie after his heart attack.

He was an old man the last time he tried, and now he's not just older, but physically worse.

Against Trump in 2016 he would have seemed a beacon of hope, but that was before the economy got good.

 

Are Bernie, Biden, Warren really the best the Dems have to offer? Are there no charismatic politicians with popular policies to be found? Sad days indeed for the US.

The "Dems" are not considering Bernie. They, in fact, loathe him. It is the people, so desperate for authenticity, that are considering him. The "Dems" are forcing people to consider him because for the most part they've failed to field anyone electable, save for Yang, whom they also loathe. Not to mention the Billionaires are fukcing everything up, which is their intention. Maybe this is how democracy dies.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

The "Dems" are not considering Bernie. They, in fact, loathe him. It is the people, so desperate for authenticity, that are considering him. The "Dems" are forcing people to consider him because for the most part they've failed to field anyone electable, save for Yang, whom they also loathe. Not to mention the Billionaires are fukcing everything up, which is their intention. Maybe this is how democracy dies.

 

I can't believe that there are no better Dems out there. I can only surmise that they have concluded that Trump is unbeatable, and have rightly decided not to go out just to lose the big chair.

[canuckamuck]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can't believe that there are no better Dems out there. I can only surmise that they have concluded that Trump is unbeatable, and have rightly decided not to go out just to lose the big chair.

Tulsi is awesome, but they are doing their best to bury her too.

[Jingthing]

 

  

 

  

9 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Tulsi is awesome, but they are doing their best to bury her too.

There is no they. She isn't popular among democratic voters. The democrats are running a primary for the democratic party. Personally she creeps me out and I'm not surprised that republicans like her, but almost no democrats do. So nice try. Maybe you can get her to become a republican?

 

Quote

 

Republicans and Russians Want Tulsi Gabbard

 

Tulsi Gabbard, who represents Hawaii’s second district in the US House, has been complaining that the national media have been ignoring her run for president, according to Honolulu’s Civil Beat.

Of course, one reason is that her rating in the polls drags along at one percent. Compare that with the eight percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning Independents who are supporting William Weld (who?) in his challenge to Donald Trump in the GOP race.

 

 

https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2019/05/republicans-and-russians-want-tulsi-gabbard/

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Jingthing

[Sujo]

Funny how trump supporters think any dem is worse than trump and hold them to a much higger standard.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

Funny how trump supporters think any dem is worse than trump and hold them to a much higger standard.

Not any Dem. Jack Kennedy was great and Carter was a champion. I'd vote for either of them over Trump. I'd even have voted for Bernie 3 years ago, but his heart attack ended him far as I'm concerned.

[Jingthing]

  

 

  

 

  

14 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Funny how trump supporters think any dem is worse than trump and hold them to a much higger standard.

It's transparently partisan and hypocritical. Excluding Gabbard any of the democratic party more or less finalists would be massively better than the hot mess current impeached president in the white house. It is a fair question which of the democratic crowd has the best chance to beat the impeached president. That's most of the debate these days. Unfortunately it's impossible to really know in advance. In general the question is between in your face progressives (Bernie and Warren) and more moderate conventional left centrists (Biden, Buttigeig, Klobuchar, Bloomberg, etc.). Beyond that is a political strategy. Energize the base more (the progressives) or try to overwhelm with the more swingy suburban white women (the moderates). Probably better to go for both with a strategic VP pick. For example Biden - Abrams.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Jingthing said:

It's transparently partisan and hypocritical. Excluding Gabbard any of the democratic party more or less finalists would be massively better than the hot mess current impeached president in the white house. It is a fair question which of the democratic crowd has the best chance to beat the impeached president. That's most of the debate these days. Unfortunately it's impossible to really know in advance. 

and you would support a GOP candidate if they stood against Trump then? LOL.

BTW, short of something extraordinary happening, none of the democratic mob has a chance, IMO, of defeating Trump.

[sucit]

19 hours ago, MisterTee said:

America and Europe are on a slide right now.

The highest immigration rates in the world are to places like Sweden, Canada, Germany, and California.  It's the freebies they go for.

After going too far down the Socialist path, these states begin to run like ponzi-schemes where the only thing propping them up is a rapid expansion of population.  They need the population increases so badly that they will accept almost anyone and will also offer lavish incentives to encourage third worlders  to make the journey [free healthcare, free education, free housing, etc.]. 

We are witnessing the death-throes of these societies, the last ditch effort to keep the party going a few more years.

It will fail, and it will fail spectacularly, as Socialism always does.  If America as a whole goes down that path, by electing any one of the current crop of goo-goo Liberals, it will be a rapid acceleration of the fall.

 

You mean "going down the socialist" path and providing government funded health care for all? 

 

While at the same time, SAVING money. https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003013

 

Everyone has health care, it costs the country less. It has been proven to work in many other countries. Is that the "rapid acceleration of the fall" you are talking about? 

[Jingthing]

Yeah sure.

None of those democrats have any chance at all against the invincible cult of personality impeached president.

That's the ticket!

 

Key swing state poll:

 

Quote

 

2020 Democrats top Trump in Michigan match-ups: poll

A poll in Michigan finds several 2020 Democratic White House hopefuls leading President Trump in hypothetical match-ups in the crucial battleground state, according to The Detroit News.

The Glengariff Group poll showed former Vice President Joe with the widest lead, at 50 percent to Trump’s 43 percent, followed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg at 47 percent to 41 percent, and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) with a 4-point lead, 49 percent to 45 percent.

 

 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/477478-2020-democrats-top-trump-in-michigan-matchups-poll

 

[lannarebirth]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not any Dem. Jack Kennedy was great and Carter was a champion. I'd vote for either of them over Trump. I'd even have voted for Bernie 3 years ago, but his heart attack ended him far as I'm concerned.

History has a way of getting closer to the truth the further you get away from a presidency. JFK is losing respect with each passing year and Carter is mainly admired for his post presidential years. Obama, who sided

with all the wrong interests against the population will be going into a deep slide in years to come. Trump is a <deleted> sandwich, but everyone knows that already.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by lannarebirth

[sucit]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

  

 

  

 

  

It's transparently partisan and hypocritical. Excluding Gabbard any of the democratic party more or less finalists would be massively better than the hot mess current impeached president in the white house. It is a fair question which of the democratic crowd has the best chance to beat the impeached president. That's most of the debate these days. Unfortunately it's impossible to really know in advance. In general the question is between in your face progressives (Bernie and Warren) and more moderate conventional left centrists (Biden, Buttigeig, Klobuchar, Bloomberg, etc.). Beyond that is a political strategy. Energize the base more (the progressives) or try to overwhelm with the more swingy suburban white women (the moderates). Probably better to go for both with a strategic VP pick. For example Biden - Abrams.

That is a very poor analysis.

 

NO, things will not get better with any democratic candidate. They will largely stay the same with most of them. As the astute poster at the top of the page pointed out, establishment dems can't stand Bernie. That is because things will in fact change with him. Establishment dems don't want change. They want to keep things exactly how they are. 

 

My God, Biden voted for the Iraq war, and he is currently trying to weasel his way out of that. You really believe candidates like Biden represent "change". Nothing will change with Biden and the rest of those candidates, they are all establishment dems, except for Bernie. 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, sucit said:

That is a very poor analysis.

 

NO, things will not get better with any democratic candidate. They will largely stay the same with most of them. As the astute poster at the top of the page pointed out, establishment dems can't stand Bernie. That is because things will in fact change with him. Establishment dems don't want change. They want to keep things exactly how they are. 

 

My God, Biden voted for the Iraq war, and he is currently trying to weasel his way out of that. You really believe candidates like Biden represent "change". Nothing will change with Biden and the rest of those candidates, they are all establishment dems, except for Bernie. 

I like to refer to the real world.

So Bernie gets elected (a big if as he would get brutally red baited by the impeached president).

Then what?

Does he take along overwhelming majorities in the house and senate? Does he change the already far right wing supreme court and transformed by 45 federal courts for generations?

So things like universal health care which pretty much every democrat wants either now or by steps, gets passed by Bernie?

Dream on!

With a more moderate democrat as president at least there is a chance to take actual steps towards the shared goals.

 

Another thing to consider. It's clear to me by his tweets etc. that the impeached president would very much prefer to run against Bernie and Sanders than Biden or Bloomberg. Because he thinks the former would be much easier to beat. In this case, I agree with the impeached president. Red bating might not work well with younger voters but younger voters turn out weakly and it's still a powerful weapon. I can imagine the non stop 45 ads showing Venezuela and suggesting that's what you get with Bernie.  

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

So, the NYT endorsed Warren, which was my expectation. They wanted an establishment candidate that appears progressive. The problem is that doesn't hold up. She's a fraud who lifted another man's policies and when called upon to defend said policies cannot, because she has no organic knowledge of them. I'd rather have a true <deleted> and cretin , like Trump than a fraud that will iill likely lose and should she win, deliver us 8 more years of something worse than Trump. Yes, there are things worse than him. Those that work for him are true hateful idealogues, while he is only self interested.

 

[sucit]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I like to refer to the real world.

So Bernie gets elected (a big if as he would get brutally red baited by the impeached president).

Then what?

Does he take along overwhelming majorities in the house and senate? Does he change the already far right wing supreme court and transformed by 45 federal courts for generations?

So things like universal health care which pretty much every democrat wants either now or by steps, gets passed by Bernie?

Dream on!

With a more moderate democrat as president at least there is a chance to take actual steps towards the shared goals. 

 

The first thing I would ask you to look into is what the people of America support. Believe it or not, Bernie is popular because his policies are popular with the people. Very popular.

 

It is difficult to figure out what your point is since I am not perfectly familiar with all your positions. Are you saying it would be "bad" to elect the best candidate because clearly he wont be able to get anything done? (So we should elect a worse one, one who has proven himself a liar and establishment dem). 

 

You would clearly need to rely on support from voters after he got elected. That is why they call it a democracy. Voters pressure their representatives, and vote in the people they know will support their positions. 

 

Anyway, step one to better health care for citizens (among other things): elect Bernie Sanders. Worry about step two when we get there. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by sucit

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sucit said:

The first thing I would ask you to look into is what the people of America support. Believe it or not, Bernie is popular because his policies are popular with the people. Very popular.

 

It is difficult to figure out what your point is since I am not perfectly familiar with all your positions. Are you saying it would be "bad" to elect the best candidate because clearly he wont be able to get anything done? (So we should elect a worse one, one who has proven himself a liar and establishment dem). 

 

You would clearly need to rely on support from voters after he got elected. That is why they call it a democracy. Voters pressure their representatives, and vote in the people they know will support their positions. 

Yeah you don't get it.

We NEED to beat the impeached president.

No ifs, ands or buts about that.

He has already done massive damage to the American democracy, foreign relations, and stacked the courts with far right wing extremists and young ones at that. Another term of that and it's game over for any hope of ANY progressive change, radical or stepped. 

I like most democrats think nominating Bernie or Sanders plays right into the impeached president getting reelected.

Others think nominating a more conventional choice is the mistake. 

I agree with the majority. Don't let our nominee get killed by red baiting. Beating 45 is an absolute must.

[sucit]

11 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

So, the NYT endorsed Warren, which was my expectation. They wanted an establishment candidate that appears progressive. The problem is that doesn't hold up. She's a fraud who lifted another man's policies and when called upon to defend said policies cannot, because she has no organic knowledge of them. I'd rather have a true <deleted> and cretin , like Trump than a fraud that will iill likely lose and should she win, deliver us 8 more years of something worse than Trump. Yes, there are things worse than him. Those that work for him are true hateful idealogues, while he is only self interested.

 

I agree with you on a lot of this stuff. It is refreshing to see some well thought out positions. 

 

Yeah, dems have what I will call "plants" in the lineup. Warren and to a lesser extent Buttigeg are plants to take away votes or beat a candidate like Bernie, who will actually try and get things done for the people, as opposed to the establishment dems working for their slavemasters. 

[sucit]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah you don't get it.

We NEED to beat the impeached president.

No ifs, ands or buts about that.

He has already done massive damage to the American democracy, foreign relations, and stacked the courts with far right wing extremists and young ones at that. Another term of that and it's game over for any hope of ANY progressive change, radical or stepped. 

I like most democrats think nominating Bernie or Sanders plays right into the impeached president getting reelected.

Others think nominating a more conventional choice is the mistake. 

I agree with the majority. Don't let our nominee get killed by red baiting. Beating 45 is an absolute must.

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." -Shakespeare

 

There is not much to "get" here.

 

There is the establishment. These are the people/candidates controlled by large corporations. Trump is one. Biden is one. 

 

What people need to realize, it ain't gonna make a lot of difference in areas like foreign relations which one of those guys is in there. Look at Hilary's war record for example. She may be up there with Cheney and Rumsfeld. 

 

Then there are non establishment candidates. The only one I see with a chance at this point is Bernie. But Yang would be another one for reference. 

 

The biggest mistake is thinking establishment dems are different from republicans though. They are not, they have the same masters. 

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

Tulsi is awesome, but they are doing their best to bury her too.

Tulsi is a one trick pony.

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, sucit said:

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." -Shakespeare

 

There is not much to "get" here.

 

There is the establishment. These are the people/candidates controlled by large corporations. Trump is one. Biden is one. 

 

What people need to realize, it ain't gonna make a lot of difference in areas like foreign relations which one of those guys is in there. Look at Hilary's war record for example. She may be up there with Cheney and Rumsfeld. 

 

Then there are non establishment candidates. The only one I see with a chance at this point is Bernie. But Yang would be another one for reference. 

 

The biggest mistake is thinking establishment dems are different from republicans though. They are not, they have the same masters. 

Make it easier for the impeached president to get reelected and we know for a fact things will get much worse. So avoiding more damage is a good place to start. I get your message about corporate influence but I think you are totally wrong that the core values of the major parties are the same. 

[lannarebirth]

35 minutes ago, sucit said:

That is a very poor analysis.

 

NO, things will not get better with any democratic candidate. They will largely stay the same with most of them. As the astute poster at the top of the page pointed out, establishment dems can't stand Bernie. That is because things will in fact change with him. Establishment dems don't want change. They want to keep things exactly how they are. 

 

My God, Biden voted for the Iraq war, and he is currently trying to weasel his way out of that. You really believe candidates like Biden represent "change". Nothing will change with Biden and the rest of those candidates, they are all establishment dems, except for Bernie. 

 

Establishment Dems don't hate Bernie because "things will change with him". They hate him because , if elected he will expose them for fighting him , and they will win, and things will, in fact, not change at all, other than the Democrats being exposed for the hand maidens of the corporate oligarchy that they have become.

 

[lannarebirth]

28 minutes ago, sucit said:

The first thing I would ask you to look into is what the people of America support. Believe it or not, Bernie is popular because his policies are popular with the people. Very popular.

 

It is difficult to figure out what your point is since I am not perfectly familiar with all your positions. Are you saying it would be "bad" to elect the best candidate because clearly he wont be able to get anything done? (So we should elect a worse one, one who has proven himself a liar and establishment dem). 

 

You would clearly need to rely on support from voters after he got elected. That is why they call it a democracy. Voters pressure their representatives, and vote in the people they know will support their positions. 

 

Anyway, step one to better health care for citizens (among other things): elect Bernie Sanders. Worry about step two when we get there. 

I like Bernie and supported him in 2016. I admire him still. The thing is, he's not going to get his M4A passed with a Republican Senate OR a Democrat Senate. Let's thank him for his service to the cause and look for better alternatives.

 

[lannarebirth]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah you don't get it.

We NEED to beat the impeached president.

No ifs, ands or buts about that.

He has already done massive damage to the American democracy, foreign relations, and stacked the courts with far right wing extremists and young ones at that. Another term of that and it's game over for any hope of ANY progressive change, radical or stepped. 

I like most democrats think nominating Bernie or Sanders plays right into the impeached president getting reelected.

Others think nominating a more conventional choice is the mistake. 

I agree with the majority. Don't let our nominee get killed by red baiting. Beating 45 is an absolute must.

You haven't read any of Yang's policies, have you?

 

[lannarebirth]

23 minutes ago, sucit said:

I agree with you on a lot of this stuff. It is refreshing to see some well thought out positions. 

 

Yeah, dems have what I will call "plants" in the lineup. Warren and to a lesser extent Buttigeg are plants to take away votes or beat a candidate like Bernie, who will actually try and get things done for the people, as opposed to the establishment dems working for their slavemasters. 

Buttigieg is not only a plant, he's a true empty suit (bright as he may be). He's clearly being groomed for a future run with the expectation that people will forget what a Democrat is supposed to look like. When people have billions to play with you can create any reality you want and what they want is to subvert our democracy to the extent that the Democrat victor or the Republcan victor are exactly the same as far as how they treat the oligarchs.

[sucit]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Make it easier for the impeached president to get reelected and we know for a fact things will get much worse. So avoiding more damage is a good place to start. I get your message about corporate influence but I think you are totally wrong that the core values of the major parties are the same. 

You have got a case of "get Trump out at all costs" syndrome. 

 

What happens is you let that drive you too much, instead of just going with your preferred candidate. It is an emotional decision, which is never good. 

 

I don't know about others but I don't understand why Bernie does not have the best chance against Trump? What did you base your opinion on?

 

Last time an establishment, centrist/conservative dem ran against Trump it did not go so well. And in fact, and almost unelectable figure was elected president.

 

AND, the reason Trump was elected was because he said he would pull us out of wars. Which he clearly is not. Bernie is a candidate who people see as more authentic about this I am sure. 

 

So again, why would Bernie not have the best chance? It has been proven a Biden type a candidate isn't so palatable against Trump. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by sucit

[Eric Loh]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can't believe that there are no better Dems out there. I can only surmise that they have concluded that Trump is unbeatable, and have rightly decided not to go out just to lose the big chair.

Most think Hillary was unbeatable too and didn’t bother to vote. This and other factors like his poor approval ratings, demographic changes and Trump’s fatigue will see him lose 2020. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sucit said:

You have got a case of "get Trump out at all costs" syndrome. 

 

What happens is you let that drive you too much, instead of just going with your preferred candidate. It is an emotional decision, which is never good. 

 

I don't know about others but I don't understand why Bernie does not have the best chance against Trump? What did you base your opinion on?

 

Last time an establishment, centrist/conservative dem ran against Trump it did not go so well. And in fact, and almost unelectable figure was elected president.

 

AND, the reason Trump was elected was because he said he would pull us out of wars. Which he clearly is not. 

 

So again, why would Bernie not have the best chance? It has been proven a Biden type a candidate isn't so palatable against Trump. 

I don't agree with your analysis of 2016 but it doesn't matter. I've already explained why I think Bernie or Sanders would lose to the impeached president. Red Baiting. Non stop conflating them with Venezuela. Yes, I believe that and yes I believe a more moderate choice would get the same stupid attacks but they wouldn't stick. 

We are having the core debate now among democrats. 

Which candidate that either matches or is close enough to your values has the best chance of beating 45 and more importantly no losing to him.

[Saint Nick]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:26 PM, FMarch said:

lol - you are out of touch with the majority of US voters.

Okay...care to have a look at the polls?

Even the one Faux Noise brings out?

No?

Yepp...thought so!

[FMarch]

23 minutes ago, Saint Nick said:

On 1/18/2020 at 4:26 PM, FMarch said:

lol - you are out of touch with the majority of US voters.

Okay...care to have a look at the polls?

Even the one Faux Noise brings out?

No?

Yepp...thought so!

When America's Greatest President of the 20th century,  Donald J Trump is elected for his third term... You will Still be Crying about you Polls and other non-sense ... do yourself a favor... go put on your big boy pants then get a life in reality.

[lannarebirth]

30 minutes ago, sucit said:

You have got a case of "get Trump out at all costs" syndrome. 

 

What happens is you let that drive you too much, instead of just going with your preferred candidate. It is an emotional decision, which is never good. 

 

I don't know about others but I don't understand why Bernie does not have the best chance against Trump? What did you base your opinion on?

 

Last time an establishment, centrist/conservative dem ran against Trump it did not go so well. And in fact, and almost unelectable figure was elected president.

 

AND, the reason Trump was elected was because he said he would pull us out of wars. Which he clearly is not. Bernie is a candidate who people see as more authentic about this I am sure. 

 

So again, why would Bernie not have the best chance? It has been proven a Biden type a candidate isn't so palatable against Trump. 

 

Bernie's got a few problems. First of all, let me say I like and and admire him tremendously. He is the patron saint of the progressive movement. Here are the issues, however. 1) All those so called "liberal" media are going to turn on him as if he were the Anti-Christ if he becomes the nominee. Liberalism is their "angle" to create a competive niche, same as Fox's conservatism. In the end they are corporate establishment and Bernie's interests are not theirs. I, in fact think, they would be only too happy to have Trump around another 4 years and if things turn to <deleted> they'll sell their company to the Chinese. Their interests are maximizing shareholder value. They don't give a <deleted> about America. 2) Bernie is an activist, he is not a manager. If you went into a fight, you'd want him on your side, but you wouldn't want him managing your company/country. 3) M4A is not going to pass, nor is free college for all, nor is 100 student loan forgiveness. These things are not going to pass whether or not there is a Republican Senate or a Democrat Senate. All of that creates a failed presidency by an octogenarian and will usher in some vile right wing ideologue much worse than Trump, who is only self serving and not an ideologue. People real ought to be looking at Yang. I know the press has marginalized him, and that's for a reason, but take a look and see if that's not the better way to go.