when switching to retirement monthly 65,000 deposits when can I stop keeping 800,000/400,000 in bank?

[mojaco]

As per the title I currently extend retirement using 800,000/400,000 rules but also started putting monthly 65,000 in bank three months before my coming extension. After my coming extension using 800,000 in bank rules do I still have to keep that in the bank even though I am also putting 65,000 monthly?  Do I need to do both for a year in order to switch to just the 65,000 monthly?

[Henryford]

I was thinking about doing the same but don't you have to have the 65k a month running for a full year before your extension. Plus what happens if your income method is refused for some reason and you don't have the 800k in the bank ?

[mojaco]

Those are some of my questions too.

[jacko45k]

I would suggest it is necessary to retain 800,000 for the required 3 months, and the 400,000 until you get a new retirement extension based on income. Mind you, it might be even wiser to bump it back up to 800,000, 2 months before attempting an income extension, as a fall back if income doesn't work out. Once you get the income based extension stamped in, money is yours again. 

[mojaco]

I will have the 65,000 going for more than a year before I try to switch but do I also have to keep the 800,000/400,000 going for that full year also?

[mojaco]

So keep both going for a year then it seems like.

[stouricks]

If I were you I would go and ask at the Immigration Office. I know it would be difficult to explain, but better be safe than sorry.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, mojaco said:

So keep both going for a year then it seems like.

The requirement to keep the money, after issue, for a deposit based retirement extension, only came about in March 2019. Only one or two offices actually made any checks after the extension was issued, that retirees had retained the money, i.e. Jomtien wanted you to show you still had the 800,000, 3 months later. Many presumed the requirement would be fully checked at NEXT extension renewal... ie renewals March 2020 onward.  So we do not know for sure, I only state a 'belt and braces' approach. 

If you do your renewal after March, it is possible more is known. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by jacko45k

[Matzzon]

You can take it out directly, as long as you know you will have 12 transactions of minimum 65k per month for one full year before your next extension.

[mojaco]

52 minutes ago, stouricks said:

If I were you I would go and ask at the Immigration Office. I know it would be difficult to explain, but better be safe than sorry.

I think I will do this.  But because Immigration seems to change their minds/answers often I don't know if that is guaranteed.  Perhaps best to keep both 800,000 and 65,000 going for this next year it seems. 

[ubonjoe]

48 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

You can take it out directly, as long as you know you will have 12 transactions of minimum 65k per month for one full year before your next extension.

Do you have any confirmation from immigration that is correct? 

I would suggest keeping the 800k baht for the 3 months and then ask immigration about keeping the 400k baht in the bank and show them you have started doing the transfers..

 

[david555]

I a not sure , but it could also change the eventuality of your "Grandfathering status" as you change  your retirement "based on..." status , this depending how the handling I.O. interpret it 

 

A lot of not thought thru possibility's in their rule , same as when you wish to stop the 800K way whiteout breaking the strict money rule, you should break your 1 year ret. ext  by example travelling out of country taking no re entry , entering visa exempt (or other ..as this the only way to end it whiteout breaking law ) and then you could fully legal empty your bank account (or partly or not depending future plans ) as others you break that visa law if you empty before Ret.Ext is discontinued..!

This by my hypotactically thinking  

 

This very strict spoken and taken ….. hopefully "the soup is not eaten same temperature as cooked "  

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by david555

[mojaco]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Do you have any confirmation from immigration that is correct? 

I would suggest keeping the 800k baht for the 3 months and then ask immigration about keeping the 400k baht in the bank and show them you have started doing the transfers..

 

In two days when I do this year's extension in Chiang Rai I will see what the IO says and report back.  Thank everyone for your advices.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Do you have any confirmation from immigration that is correct? 

I would suggest keeping the 800k baht for the 3 months and then ask immigration about keeping the 400k baht in the bank and show them you have started doing the transfers..

 

It kind of speak for itself, doesn´t it. If you have 12 month of 65k per month then you will not need 800k in the bank. That was exactly what I wrote.

If his extension is due in 2, 3 or 7 month, then he have to use the money for his extension and directly start to make monthly deposits at the same time extension has been granted or better up, one month before to be sure. That is same you have explained a hundred times on this forum ???? 

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

You can take it out directly, as long as you know you will have 12 transactions of minimum 65k per month for one full year before your next extension.

But then wouldn't you be in violation of the rules/conditions of your current extension which requires that you keep at least 400k in the bank for the last 9 months of the extension?

 

Maybe no one would bother checking when you go in for your (next)  income based extension, but it seems to be a risk.

 

 

[chilly07]

If you haven't got 12mths of FTT transfers you will have to stick with the 800/400 in the bank untill you have established 12 mths of deposits

[Metropolitian]

Let me ask the reverse way:

 

What if you have 65K deposits every months, and choose after 13 months the monthly deposits stops and you have at least 800K on the bank.

Can you use that for the retirement requirement?

[ianh68]

Don't forget you have to prove that the 65,000 per month is coming from abroad and it is easier to do this with some banks than others. Also is the 65,000 a single monthly payment or a combination of payments? Hard pressed immigration officials don't want to do more maths than is necessary.

[Lacessit]

If the OP can afford it, I would recommend sticking with the 800K. Less to potentially go wrong, and it seems IO's prefer the 800K method because it involves less work for them.

[jacko45k]

19 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Let me ask the reverse way:

 

What if you have 65K deposits every months, and choose after 13 months the monthly deposits stops and you have at least 800K on the bank.

Can you use that for the retirement requirement?

Yes, why not. The retirement extension based on income, requires full proof of the income prior to issuing the extension. The retirement extension, based on deposit, also requires money on deposit beyond the date of issue. (No proof yet beyond a few 'rogue' offices.). I look forward to post March when this anomaly may be addressed.

[MikeN]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

It kind of speak for itself, doesn´t it. If you have 12 month of 65k per month then you will not need 800k in the bank. That was exactly what I wrote.

If his extension is due in 2, 3 or 7 month, then he have to use the money for his extension and directly start to make monthly deposits at the same time extension has been granted or better up, one month before to be sure. That is same you have explained a hundred times on this forum ???? 

Yes, but ......if you use the “money in the bank” method for an extension one of the conditions is that you have to keep the money in the bank so technically if he spends that money he has broken one of the visa conditions, and the extension “could “ be cancelled.

 The 65,000/month he is now putting into the bank is a requirement for next year’s visa extension, not his current one.

 We all know that logically it would make no difference, but could you really be sure every IO would agree ?

[paddyfield7]

I decided to switch from the 800k mode to income (pension) mode about half a year ago, and started to use some of the available capital, after my Embassy confirmed that their pension certification will be no problem and accepted at all I/O. In December 2019 I made my annual extension based on pension income and Embassy's pension confirmation, and not a word any more about my bank balance at I/O. This was in Chiang Mai.

[AAArdvark]

What I would do is to:

1.  Make sure all the 65K rules are followed

     Minimum of 65K every single month on roughly similar dates

     Not one month even 1฿ short

     Every deposit is coded to show foreign transfer

     Your bank is willing and able to prove the deposits

2. Get your extension based on income and don't even mention that you have the 800K

3. If successful, do whatever you wish with the 800K

 

[Thingamabob]

Personally I leave 800k in the bank year on year. Saves a lot of hassle.

[SiSePuede419]

Was just at the Chiang Rai immigration office last week extending my visa.

 

This is verbatim from two handouts.  YMMV at other offices....

 

Thai Retirement Visa (Age 50+)

 [Monday and Wednesday at Muang Chiang Rai office]

1. TM.7 form

2. 1 2x2" standard passport photo

3. Copy of passport

4. Non-Immigrant visa stamp in your passport

5. Letter from Thai bank certifying 800K Baht in your account for two months prior

Or 

65K Baht income/pension per month, certified by your embassy in Thailand

6. House contract, copy of house owner ID card & house book

7. No mention of fee, but presumably it is 1900B application fee.

 

____________

Thai Marriage/Family Visa [2 copies of all documents]

1. TM7 form

2. Copy of passport

3. Non-Immigrant visa stamp in your passport

4. Marriage certificate (if married abroad, must certify at your embassy)

5. "Certificate of family, Certificate of marriage" (updated not more than 60 days, "can renew Visa 45 days before your current visa expires"

(Huh!?!?)

6. Thai wife ID card

7. House register of Thai wife

8. Children's birth certificate & house register of children

9. Letter from Thai bank certifying 400K Baht in your account for two months prior & copy of bank book

Or 

40K Baht income/pension per month, certified by your embassy in Thailand

10. Map to home

11. Current photo of Family in front of house

12. 2 2x2" standard passport photos

13. 1900B application fee

 

________

Source: Chiang Rai immigration office

05-317-5376

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by SiSePuede419
Added fee for retirement visa; added photos of requirements

[bilbofarang]

I think the hard problem here is proving you have the 65,000THB income, for myself I keep the 800,000THB in the bank

 

In the past you had to get an embassy letter saying you had 65,000THB income, and for some country's that is difficult. UK hard USA easy, but its still a pain to visit the consulate, make the appointment, travel a long way, and stay in a hotel to get a piece of paper from my GOV.

 

My reading of the new requirements are ...

 

1.) The 800k/400k in bank, 3 months before, 2 months after cannot touch account

 

2.) Prove you have 65,000THB income ( Again I'm sure you need a letter from embassy notarized in Thai )

 

3.) Prove that you deposit over 800,000THB in your bank account, and the balance doesn't drop, I saw this third case where you can prove you have regular incoming money to your account.

 

There are lots of new requirements, I would rather go into them on a different thread.

 

....

 

The 400k balance is the MIN all year, I think people misunderstand the new rules. You cannot ever let the balance go below 400K, you cannot touch the money in the account 3 months before, and 2 months after application & approval. I know personally from last year, once my bank generated the letter, they told me I could not withdraw any money, even excess of 800K which I assumed was obvious, since its interest. ( Keep money in fixed account, but now only 1% )

Bascially its a locked account, lets say you renew in Jan, that means you can't touch account Oct-Jan, and can't touch after until March, then if you want to grab any excess of 800K do it before the following September. If you need the money for emergence March to October, you MUST leave at least 400K balance in the account, otherwise your app will be denied.

 

...

 

There are Three new tiers for the Bank Letter.

 

1.) You must provide All copys of your bank book, signed.

2.) You must provide the letter from you bank, less than 24 hours old, you must also provide the receipt showing you paid the 100THB to the bank to print the paper. The letter must state the balance of your account on the date of the application. 

3.) You must provide your "Statement" for the entire year? Month? Or statement to date at time of request of letter? I didn't get a good answer from any immig-police, they just said the bank would know when I said "Statement".

 

Now this last one is NEW, I asked what is a statement, as one is never sent, and the online account is not available for fixed account to print a statement online. The Immig-Police told me that when I got my annual 24-hour, at that time I had to ask for the 'statement'.

 

My understanding is that many people are counterfeiting these letters and bank-book, so the statement is just one more new hoop.

 

I just renewed today, that's why I know the new rules; The were very clear next time I come in for renewal if I didn't have a 'statement' they would not even look at my application.

[bilbofarang]

There are many things that people fail to mention here, so I will list important stuff.

 

If you decide to go the 400K route, then you must prove you have a wife, and the police, usually 4-5 must inspect your house, too see that your actually living as husband & wife, more-ever it seems they like to go through the entire house to make sure you living a normal life, .... So I guess it all comes down to the "Do you like your privacy, even if married?, then keep the extra 800K in the Bank"

 

Even if you apply 'single' they will ask you "Do you have a thai wife?" Of course NEVER LIE, if they catch you in a lie, they can deny your visa, pretty much forever. Never lie to the thai police, that is the ultimate NO-NO.

 

Once you tell them you have a thai-wife, they will ask for her ID-CARD, and her House-book, note her house-book is not your house, as its her family house where she was born. This is important for thailand, if they can't find you, they will go the family to find you or her.

 

...

 

Another thing is cleanliness, and collared shirt, if you try to apply in your shorts&t-shirt they will send you away, thailand has a very strict rule, when any thai goes to a GOV building he's supposed to wear slacks, collared shirt, and be neat. Same apply's to farang.

 

Your photo that you provide also must be a clean collared shirt.

 

Some of us drive 2-3 hours to do our annual renewal, and its really bad not to get it done the same day, there are dozen's of things they will call you on, you need to make mental note and have them all. Never visit a GOV building without a clean dress-shirt in your truck, bike, or pack.

 

Have copies of all the doc's that includes your housebook, your bankbook, all pages of your passport, 

 

...

 

I mentioned the new rule I was just told that when going to the bank to get the letter 800K that I now have to ask for a "Statement", on bank letter head in normal form. I can only assume this is a third way to stop the BS coming out of Pattaya where lawyers get people visa's for 2,000THB annual by rolling over the money in various accounts, so now the thai-gov is one step ahead with this new requirement.  Funny that they just don't shutdown the scam's, but they don't. Not my business, I live in the North.

 

( I'm just commenting this because in my 15+ years here, I have met many UK ex-soldiers getting 150 quid a month pension, and they don't have 800k in a thai-bank, and they can't get a pension letter from their gov, so these services allow these guys to stay, they would die if they went home )

 

...

 

I would be useful if somebody here could clarify the new rules. I was asked to sign them, but they didn't provide me a copy.

 

To re-iterate the new rules were...

 

1.) Keep a balance all year of +800K thb in a thai-account

 

2.) Prove you have 65,000THB a month income

 

3.) Prove that you deposit over 800K annually into your account and show source

 

.

 

I do #1, done so 15+ years, works for me, but terribly painful annually ????

2 is unclear, do I have to go back to my consulate every year for a new letter? I somehow doubt that they would let me use an old letter over&over, its a super hassle to make an appt with my country and get such a letter

 

3 sounds easy, but this would require a class CPA examination close scrutiny of all you business in thailand, I think its best to just get in&out, there are people who say have all their money in the stock market and get dividend payouts quarterly and such so I guess this is a route for such people. I personally wire that much annually to my ATM account, but I think it would be a super pain, to prove to somebody that all my deposits for that year exceeded 800k. Do you copy and highlight? It's not clear how you prove this thing, I know its obvious but its NOT.

 

Another thing with 3 is that how does it stop the 'cheaters' I mean a service could deposit monthly, and then the recipient ATM cashes out, and hands back, I just don't see how this proves anything to the thai authority's

 

.....

 

Remember the entire point here is the thai-gov doesn't want to get stuck with old farangs who are destitute, at best the 800K is enough money for a hospital and plane ticket to pack you home. The other thing is Thailand doesn't want to get stuck with the 'homeless problem' you see in USA, I have seen a few homeless farang in BKK, and Pattaya, walking around with their trousers at knee level, and they seem to be infinitely tolerated, but I do know that Thailand doesn't want 1,000's of such people. You see thai alcoholics living the same way, a few is ok, so long as they're not harming others.

 

...

 

Lastly, there are so many rules, conditions and caveats that it makes the head spin, renewing your visa is a super stressful annual experience ????

I go alone, but thai-wife will not go with me, I see the vast majority of farang with their wives who take care of biz, I guess that's the way to do it, but my wife has a job, and can't possibly take a day off.

 

....

 

Another thing is all offices are different, I know chiang-mai with 1,000's of people in the queue, they just don't have time to spend hours with one customer, sadly where I have to go they do ????

[bilbofarang]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Personally I leave 800k in the bank year on year. Saves a lot of hassle.

That's the best and easiest way, but I know guys who are rich, and choose to do the 400k thing, why? 

Cuz they don't want to park their money here

To me the crux is the 400K choice, means the police have to come to your house for a full search with 4-5 cops that go through the entire house, heard too many stories from friends about this choice.

 

But even if you do the SINGLE 800k route, if you do have a thai-wife, then YOU must provide ALL her papers, signed, and current.

 

For me I have several accounts with 800K just in case one has a problem, I have others

Yep, its the best way, the other way's require working with my GOV back home, and I would much rather just have to deal with the Thais ????

 

But the 800k still has its hassles, there is no bank near me, so I have to drive 90 minutes and letter is only good one day, so I drive to the city, get the letter, go to the immig, and usually don't finish until 4pm, that's get up at 5am, leave the house, wait until 830am for bank to open.

 

Now the new rule of statement even means more hassle for the bank, and my understanding it must be issued the same day as letter. Failure to have statement means back to the bank, if after 330pm it means another letter, ...

Don't forget to update your bank-book, its go to be printed, don't forget to copy all pages.

 

There's much more to this than just keeping money in an account.

 

Almost every year I have to go back to the copy shop twice, I have to go to big-c to buy a more beautiful shirt, ... It's always something, and never easy

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

But then wouldn't you be in violation of the rules/conditions of your current extension which requires that you keep at least 400k in the bank for the last 9 months of the extension?

 

Maybe no one would bother checking when you go in for your (next)  income based extension, but it seems to be a risk.

 

 

Why would they ask you to show that your balance hasn't gone below 400k when you're applying for an extension based on a monthly income? They won't check which method you used last time.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Max69xl

[murraynz]

18 hours ago, paddyfield7 said:

I decided to switch from the 800k mode to income (pension) mode about half a year ago, and started to use some of the available capital, after my Embassy confirmed that their pension certification will be no problem and accepted at all I/O. In December 2019 I made my annual extension based on pension income and Embassy's pension confirmation, and not a word any more about my bank balance at I/O. This was in Chiang Mai.

i did similar at jomtien, in november- also no problems