“Don’t complain about our English, If you can’t speak Thai” - sign at restaurant goes viral - again

[Dogmatix]

On 1/20/2020 at 12:05 PM, Aforek said:

I agree, too; even if it's more convenient if somebody speaks English, we can't be angry with people who don't 

English language doesn't not take precedence over other languages , it's not the language of God 

but we need a common language, true, but everybody didn't go to school too long 

Need to angry with the slothful and corrupt officials at the Education Ministry who are responsible for the abysmally poor standard of English teaching not the victims of this national travesty.

[RJRS1301]

3 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

Basically, because you would show up their ignorance.  

My wife is a traditional Thai masseuse with her own spa.  No hanky-panky, just straight out pain and prodding type massage. 

However, she studied for about 6 years and joined (sounds something like, forget the exact title) the Thai Traditional and Complementary Medicine Institute based at the Ministry of Public Health.

They offered a free weekend teaching members English so I took her along and offered to help out with some conversation if they wanted.  They were actually very snotty indeed to me and some fat old bat told me it was only for Thais and I must leave forthwith.  I did, but not before telling her that with her standard of English, it was going to be a waste of time for the poor attendees.

My wife stayed but she said everyone complained later that it was useless (as I strongly suspected it would be).

What these Thais in petty bureaucratic posts never grasp is that not only are they generally useless in speaking decent English, they are also utterly useless at teaching it.  Unfortunately, someone with a vocabulary of about 150 words of English is seen as an expert, especially in their own mind.  

 

The ability to teach is a skill, the abilty to reapeat "parrot fashion" words cannot be considered a skill.

The abilty to faciltate and instruct a group, while ensuring all are receiving and UNDERSTANDING the same thing is and advanced skill

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Coremouse said:

I don't have high hopes Thai people could embrace Chinese

It is far easier for a Thai speaker to learn Chinese than English. Also many Thai people already speak Thai. 

It needs to be borne in mind also that the Confucius Institute is now invaglin its way into many Thai universities and other institutions like the CIA did in the 1960s

[Airbagwill]

8 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

DO you mean :ubiquitous

What you have mentioned is a cloud based game, unless you are speaking Hindi, but since the thread is about Thai/English, I very much doubt you would intro the less spoken (in Thailand) Hindi

It is of course symptomatic of a poor language learner that they are unable to unravel simple typos.

[RJRS1301]

11 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

It is of course symptomatic of a poor language learner that they are unable to unravel simple typos.

But symtomatic that well named "airbags" make typos while inflating their egos.

I was merely attempting to put the correct slant on your post, by clearing any misunderstanding about the content.

Edited January 23, 2020 by RJRS1301

[rabas]

On 1/22/2020 at 6:19 PM, rtwiddy said:

The official language of ASEAN is English, so Thai's need to learn English to be compliant business wise with ASEAN.  It seems this restaurant may or may not understand this.

You didn't read their ASEAN compliant complaint sign?

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by rabas

[Opl]

30 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

It is far easier for a Thai speaker to learn Chinese than English. Also many Thai people already speak Thai. 

It needs to be borne in mind also that the Confucius Institute is now invaglin its way into many Thai universities and other institutions like the CIA did in the 1960s

To be fairly competent in the chinese writing system needs years of study. In contrast, latin alphabet makes it easier to access and understand English. Try with kids if you disagree…

 

[Airbagwill]

6 minutes ago, Opl said:

To be fairly competent in the chinese writing system needs years of study. In contrast, latin alphabet makes it easier to access and understand English. Try with kids if you disagree…

 

I have...and with adults and they all say it's easier. As I said we organise training in Chinese for tourism

[Airbagwill]

34 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

But symtomatic that well named "airbags" make typos while inflating their egos.

I was merely attempting to put the correct slant on your post, by clearing any misunderstanding about the content.

no you weren't - you didn't have an argument so you tried to be claver about something that everyone else knew was a typo.

[Opl]

6 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I have...and with adults and they all say it's easier. As I said we organise training in Chinese for tourism

so.. it's easier to learn and remember " 请中等辣" than " medium spicy, please" ?

Amazing…

[Enki]

On 1/22/2020 at 6:04 AM, Gecko123 said:

Criticism and negative feedback are seen as valuable because they help identify opportunities for improvement.

Ooops, we are not talking about NEGATIVE feedback, we are talking about POSITIVE feedback that english speaking customers don't give to a Thai who only had 3 years english in school, is working in a job were english is close to irrelevant and gets aggressively attacked by a tourist for "being not good enough at english".

[Enki]

On 1/22/2020 at 12:19 PM, rtwiddy said:

The official language of ASEAN is English, so Thai's need to learn English to be compliant business wise with ASEAN.  It seems this restaurant may or may not understand this.

Business in ASEAN means international business between different ASEAN companies based in different ASEAN countries.

It has nothing to do with serving an american or russian or chinese tourist in a small restaurant at a remote beach.

 

That should be a no brainer.

 

And one who is 20 now and working as a waiter(ess) in such a restaurant has probably left school with 16 or 17 and only had 3 or 4 years mediocre english education.

And on top of that: meets an english speaking customer once a month. Or let it be once a week. And when he says: "taste good?" Instead of "Did you enjoy your meal?", he is mocked and defamed. Sorry, get a damn clue. The picture that opened the conversation is pretty clear. No idea why so many people like you want to turn it into something that it clearly is not.

[Enki]

9 hours ago, Coremouse said:

Actually I don't have high hopes Thai people could embrace Chinese if they can't even popularize English

Unfortunately you have it the opposite around.

Learning Chinese for a Thai is most certainly 100 times more simple than learning English or German or 1000 times simpler than Russian.

 

As you speak Chinese and Thai and English, are you raised multi lingual? Or did you just have good luck in having a good english education?

Edited January 23, 2020 by Enki

[RJRS1301]

10 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

no you weren't - you didn't have an argument so you tried to be claver about something that everyone else knew was a typo.

So your cleverness now ranges to knowing how others thought processess work.????

Claver=clever?? just clearing that up as well

[ravip]

The bottom line is, all this is just making a mountain out of a molehill!

In real, most posters herein see nothing but wrong in Thai people and Thailand itself. Also, there are some, with a 'holier than thou attitude' looking down on people - hence, majority of these negative posts are quite expected, and very normal in the TVF; but a normal tourist would not look at that sign twice or would even have a hearty laugh!

This world has more serious issues for humans, than a humorous sign at a wayside restaurant! ????

[Airbagwill]

12 hours ago, Opl said:

so.. it's easier to learn and remember " 请中等辣" than " medium spicy, please" ?

Amazing…

what an extraordinary piece of Euro-centricism.

Especially when your starting point is ได้โปรดเผ็ดปานกลาง

Clearly you have no idea of language acquisition or teaching.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Airbagwill

[EVENKEEL]

Sort of like me opening a Mexican based store in the heart of the farmland in Callie and not able to speak Spanish. Wouldn't make good business sense.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

what an extraordinary piece of Euro-centricism.

Especially when your starting point is ได้โปรดเผ็ดปานกลาง

Clearly you have no idea of language acquisition or teaching.

that's why I asked you to explain clearly your affirmations, but you did not bother to articulate.

Chinese pupils learn to use latin alphabet before characters - pin yin - because it's easier. If so,  wonder why it becomes suddenly more difficult when it comes to English for Thais…  So be it, Mandarin ( Han) or Cantonese, are easier to learn for Thais than English.  

Edited January 24, 2020 by Opl

[Yadon Toploy]

16 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

The ability to teach is a skill, the abilty to reapeat "parrot fashion" words cannot be considered a skill.

The abilty to faciltate and instruct a group, while ensuring all are receiving and UNDERSTANDING the same thing is and advanced skill

Understanding and knowledge are different things.

 

The rote learning method of Thai education means Thais never actually understand what they are learning. 

 

Understanding explains knowledge.

Knowledge is awareness that something is the case.

Understanding is awareness of why or how it is the case.

[GeoMill]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:41 AM, ParkerN said:

Yes. well. English is the default uniquitous language of the world. Thai isn't. It must surely be the responsibility of Thais to speak English, not for Europeans or Americans (both of whom come here mainly for cheap beaches, cheap food or cheap sex) to learn how to order Somtam in Thai or to engage a waiter whose IQ is likely less than 90 in conversation (quantum mechanics anyone?).

 

Seems reasonable for foreigners to boycott jingoistic little restaurants like this one. It probably isn't very clean anyway and it seems they need a few lessons in how not to <deleted> their customers off.

 

On 1/20/2020 at 11:34 AM, samsensam said:

 

if someone complained about my second language ability, for example my french, and especially if i was using that language in order to be successful in business, i'd work hard to improve my language skills. that would be common sense/good business sense, wouldn't it?!

The arrogance of some westerners here is disgusting. Demanding the Thai to learn fluent english while we are guests in their country. 

I myself am multilingual as are most Dutch, but if a German, Japanese, French or Brit complained about my language skills when visitting the Netherlands while they dont speak a word Dutch i'd tell them to f*** off. 

Where does this missplaced entitled feeling come from that the whole world should speak English? Still living in the colonial days?

[LetsCleanUpTHAILAND]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:34 AM, samsensam said:

 

if someone complained about my second language ability, for example my french, and especially if i was using that language in order to be successful in business, i'd work hard to improve my language skills. that would be common sense/good business sense, wouldn't it?!

After living 10 years across three provinces in Thailand in the non-profit industry, tourism industry and education industry, I can say with confidence that "hard work" and "thailand" are like oil and water.

[Airbagwill]

14 minutes ago, GeoMill said:

 

The arrogance of some westerners here is disgusting. Demanding the Thai to learn fluent english while we are guests in their country. 

I myself am multilingual as are most Dutch, but if a German, Japanese, French or Brit complained about my language skills when visitting the Netherlands while they dont speak a word Dutch i'd tell them to f*** off. 

Where does this missplaced entitled feeling come from that the whole world should speak English? Still living in the colonial days?

I'm certainly not suggesting that thai people should be fluent.

I'm suggesting that ANYONE who wants to do business internationally will be better placed to do so with a smattering of English. the OP seems to suggest that this is not needed. However as anyone from Netherlands is well aware the languages spoken by most citizens there are a great help to the countries trade Ove the centuries and subsequent wealth.

 

[LetsCleanUpTHAILAND]

On 1/20/2020 at 12:04 PM, ravip said:

Please explain. Very difficult for the common man to understand your unique and extraordinary post.

Actually, many people here agree and like it. Me too. There's no excuse for people of a small country with a language that less than 1% of the world speaks to complain about the foreigners who complain about their inability to speak a sufficient level of English for their customers. This is Business 101. Do you think that Ebay is going to say, "don't complain about our customer service if you..." NO! They'd lose all their customers to Amazon and Alibaba. Guess what? Foreigners aren't coming to Thailand anymore. I support cultural and linguistic sovereignty, but if your business is for foreigners, then ENGLISH is the language to speak because it's the language of the world. Most Asians and Europeans learn English as a second or third language. English is NOT a superior language. No no no! I actually prefer to speak Spanish. I enjoy speaking Thai because I feel more polite. I'm currently learning Chinese. Not bad for an American, right? The point is that (1) Thais are lazy, they have farmer DNA (2) Thais just want your money, not your language (3) foreigners are minorities and influence-less in Thailand (4) Thai "kindness" is 100% fake. I know because when Bangkok Thai's travel around thailand, the Thais in their country don't treat them with the same respect. I'll reference #2 - Thais just want your money. Can any expats or Thais confirm this?

[LetsCleanUpTHAILAND]

13 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I'm certainly not suggesting that thai people should be fluent.

I'm suggesting that ANYONE who wants to do business internationally will be better placed to do so with a smattering of English. the OP seems to suggest that this is not needed. However as anyone from Netherlands is well aware the languages spoken by most citizens there are a great help to the countries trade Ove the centuries and subsequent wealth.

 

Historically, the Dutch have always had strong ties with Thailand. This is a reason why Thailand was never colonialized by a western power. To maintain this economic partner ship, THAILAND's ambassador learned to speak the language of their European partner. There wasn't a big "To Do Business With Thailand, you must speak Thai" painted on the fortress wall of the Kingdom of Ayuthaya (Siam, former Thailand in the 1500's).

 

No one is talking about fluency in English. We are all talking about how Thais should have a basic/foundational level of English for Tourism. Most Thais in the tourism industry don't understand "Can I have some ketchup." Let me give you another example. Most Thais outside of city areas will answer you "I'm ____ years old" if you ask the question, "How are you?" Are you telling me that's not a problem for a country that, as of the past 20 years, has transitioned from a farmer economy to a tourism economy??? Thailand is in tough competition with EVERY country in SE Asia and they are currently losing millions of tourism to less linguistically stubborn countries. In SE Asia, Cambodia and Thailand are the dumbest countries about English. That's not a problem?

[roo860]

15 minutes ago, LetsCleanUpTHAILAND said:

Historically, the Dutch have always had strong ties with Thailand. This is a reason why Thailand was never colonialized by a western power. To maintain this economic partner ship, THAILAND's ambassador learned to speak the language of their European partner. There wasn't a big "To Do Business With Thailand, you must speak Thai" painted on the fortress wall of the Kingdom of Ayuthaya (Siam, former Thailand in the 1500's).

 

No one is talking about fluency in English. We are all talking about how Thais should have a basic/foundational level of English for Tourism. Most Thais in the tourism industry don't understand "Can I have some ketchup." Let me give you another example. Most Thais outside of city areas will answer you "I'm ____ years old" if you ask the question, "How are you?" Are you telling me that's not a problem for a country that, as of the past 20 years, has transitioned from a farmer economy to a tourism economy??? Thailand is in tough competition with EVERY country in SE Asia and they are currently losing millions of tourism to less linguistically stubborn countries. In SE Asia, Cambodia and Thailand are the dumbest countries about English. That's not a problem?

 I was always under the impression Thailand could have been colonised by the French or the British, the Dutch had nothing to do with it, it was a perfect buffer to keep them apart?

The French and the British decided Thailand would be neutral territory.

Edited January 24, 2020 by roo860

[Saint Nick]

3 hours ago, ravip said:

The bottom line is, all this is just making a mountain out of a molehill!

In real, most posters herein see nothing but wrong in Thai people and Thailand itself. Also, there are some, with a 'holier than thou attitude' looking down on people - hence, majority of these negative posts are quite expected, and very normal in the TVF; but a normal tourist would not look at that sign twice or would even have a hearty laugh!

This world has more serious issues for humans, than a humorous sign at a wayside restaurant! ????

...talking about a holier- than -thou- attitude, oh gracious defender of everything Thailand...

[GeoMill]

40 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I'm certainly not suggesting that thai people should be fluent.

I'm suggesting that ANYONE who wants to do business internationally will be better placed to do so with a smattering of English. the OP seems to suggest that this is not needed. However as anyone from Netherlands is well aware the languages spoken by most citizens there are a great help to the countries trade Ove the centuries and subsequent wealth.

 

Actually to me it seems to suggest the poster of the sign asks foreigners not to complain about their bad English skill. I agree learning English to some degree would help their bussiness, not denying that in any way. 

 

The problem I have is that some individuals, ParkerN for example, seem to feel entitled that the whole world needs to learn their language. His post is full of demeaning assumptions based on nothing but his own lack of knowledge. Even if he is right, how can he expect a sub-90-IQ waitress to learn several languages in the little spare time she has? Surely he must know Westerners aren't the only tourists here. There is Chinese, Japanese, Indians, granted the latter usually speak English. And all this for a few dollar of wage per day. 

[Saint Nick]

1 hour ago, GeoMill said:

 

The arrogance of some westerners here is disgusting. Demanding the Thai to learn fluent english while we are guests in their country. 

I myself am multilingual as are most Dutch, but if a German, Japanese, French or Brit complained about my language skills when visitting the Netherlands while they dont speak a word Dutch i'd tell them to f*** off. 

Where does this missplaced entitled feeling come from that the whole world should speak English? Still living in the colonial days?

....aaaaaaah...the ever so popular "guests in this country"- chestnut!

No one aske any Thai to be perfect in English!

I am German and although I recon my English to be quiet good, I don't think I am perfect (although way better, than most Thais I know!).

Still: if you want to (literally) cater to an international clientel, I think you should at least TRY to learn the language to a certain efficiency.

Still: we don't know what the problem was, in this case! All we know, is that some brat thought it was a good idea, to scold customers and told them to learn Thai, for a dinner in a holiday- spot! Bit over the top, if you ask me!

Still: I have traveled this country up and down for the last 25 years, living here for 12 years and I can say, that I have not often met people who are so intellectually lazy, as the Thai- people are!

Living here for 12 years, that is the amount of time I had to learn Thai (which i find to be very difficult) 

I am in my 50's and I learned a lot of my English through my own interest- reading English books, watching English movies, listening to English music.

I know a bunch of Thais at my age, who had the same time to learn English by themselves and they have the vovabulary and the language skills of a toddler.

Even worse: they are not even interested in changing that!

Maybe, If carabao would start to sing English, that would change!

 

Oh...and like I said before:  if I am a guest - treat me like one!

"Learn our language or shut up" is hardly how I treat my guests!

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Saint Nick

[GeoMill]

28 minutes ago, Saint Nick said:

....aaaaaaah...the ever so popular "guests in this country"- chestnut!

No one aske any Thai to be perfect in English!

I am German and although I recon my English to be quiet good, I don't think I am perfect (although way better, than most Thais I know!).

Still: if you want to (literally) cater to an international clientel, I think you should at least TRY to learn the language to a certain efficiency.

Still: we don't know what the problem was, in this case! All we know, is that some brat thought it was a good idea, to scold customers and told them to learn Thai, for a dinner in a holiday- spot! Bit over the top, if you ask me!

Still: I have traveled this country up and down for the last 25 years, living here for 12 years and I can say, that I have not often met people who are so intellectually lazy, as the Thai- people are!

Living here for 12 years, that is the amount of time I had to learn Thai (which i find to be very difficult) 

I am in my 50's and I learned a lot of my English through my own interest- reading English books, watching English movies, listening to English music.

I know a bunch of Thais at my age, who had the same time to learn English by themselves and they have the vovabulary and the language skills of a toddler.

Even worse: they are not even interested in changing that!

Maybe, If carabao would start to sing English, that would change!

 

Oh...and like I said before:  if I am a guest - treat me like one!

"Learn our language or shut up" is hardly how I treat my guests!

 

How much do you know about the restaurant in question? For all we know this restaurant is not centered in a holiday hotspot, and their aimed clientel is not foreigners, but Thai? I bet plenty of Farang go to these restaurants rather than the tourist restaurants because of the inflated prices at the latter. 

And the guest in this country chestnut? How about criticise your own country before you criticise others. Germany and France are among the western nations where English is mostly useless. And Germans aren't underpaid sub-90-IQ people, whats their excuse? A quick search showed that actually most tourists in Germany come from the Netherlands. Have Germans bothered to learn Dutch? Last time I was there I had to order my food in German to make sure I got what I wanted. Why expect something from Thai, when we ourselves don't even bother?

 

Again, not saying it's not a good idea to learn the language of the tourist. But it is your own choice to come to Thailand. If their broken, or lack of, English is an issue, perhaps go elsewere? Australia or Canada perhaps? But I guess the working ladies and food there is too expensive? If you want cheap food, just suck it up that they don't speak English. At most fancy restaurants I visit in Thailand they do speak English btw.

 

Also, may I remind you, that learning English, a GERMANIC language, for a German is something diffrent than learning it as a Thai? I wonder which one of you and your friends would pick up Cambodian or Lao faster.

Next time if you don't want to sound like a hypocrit with your last sentence, answer to me in Dutch. 

Edit: Little sidenote; "Please, Don't complain about our English, If you can't speak Thai, Love you". is NOT the same as "Learn out language or <deleted> up.". It's just pointing out how hypocrit you all are.

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by GeoMill

[KC 71]

5 minutes ago, GeoMill said:

How much do you know about the restaurant in question? For all we know this restaurant is not centered in a holiday hotspot, and their aimed clientel is not foreigners, but Thai? I bet plenty of Farang go to these restaurants rather than the tourist restaurants because of the inflated prices at the latter. 

And the guest in this country chestnut? How about criticise your own country before you criticise others. Germany and France are among the western nations where English is mostly useless. And Germans aren't underpaid sub-90-IQ people, whats their excuse? A quick search showed that actually most tourists in Germany come from the Netherlands. Have Germans bothered to learn Dutch? Last time I was there I had to order my food in German to make sure I got what I wanted. Why expect something from Thai, when we ourselves don't even bother?

 

Again, not saying it's not a good idea to learn the language of the tourist. But it is your own choice to come to Thailand. If their broken, or lack of, English is an issue, perhaps go elsewere? Australia or Canada perhaps? But I guess the working ladies and food there is too expensive? If you want cheap food, just suck it up that they don't speak English. At most fancy restaurants I visit in Thailand they do speak English btw.

 

Also, may I remind you, that learning English, a GERMANIC language, for a German is something diffrent than learning it as a Thai? I wonder which one of you and your friends would pick up Cambodian or Lao faster.

Next time if you don't want to sound like a hypocrit with your last sentence, answer to me in Dutch. 

Edit: Little sidenote; "Please, Don't complain about our English, If you can't speak Thai, Love you". is NOT the same as "Learn out language or <deleted> up.". It's just pointing out how hypocrit you all are.

 

Carabao has done some tracks in English before