Why I applied for a Retirement Visa

[rastlin]

I decided to apply for a retirement Visa based on my most recent experience at the airport.  It was not a horrible experience, mind you, but I took it as a "hint" it was time to make a change in the way I am doing things.  For background, here is my travel situation:  I spend 6 months a year in the U.S. and 5-6 months a year in Thailand.  Of the 6 months in Thailand,  I have one 3 month stay via a single entry tourist Visa which I get (easily) back in the states.  The other three months are one month stays each, via a 30 day permission to stay obtained at the airport when I arrive.

 

As far as I could tell, this should pose no problem.  Three one month stays-spread out over the year (April, July and November) and then one 90 day stay (winter months) seemed well within the posted rules.  (If I am wrong on that please let me know!)  And for the record, I do NOT work here at all nor do I run any business or do anything that could be construed as work!  Also, for the record, I have never had any overstays or other such problems.

 

When I arrived at the airport this time, after stamping through scores of people ahead of me quickly, the immigration agent came to a full stop when she took my passport.  My last stay was 2.5 months prior and that stay was on a 60 day tourist visa which I had extended an extra 30 days.  It had been almost 8 months since my previous 30 day permission to stay was issued (April 2019).  But as I said, she came to a full stop.  She spend a few minutes (seemed like hours) looking at the computer screen.  I presume she was reviewing my travel history.  While doing this, she had a frown on her face that almost touched the floor and she even shook her head "no" once!  She then asked me the following questions:  1) "Why you come Thailand"  answer:  Holiday, Happy New Year.  2) Where you stay Thailand?  answer:  I have a condo.  (I did have that address on the entry form, but did not have any other documentation.) After this she continued to stare at the computer screen for about another minute or two. Just as I thought I was going to be rejected, she stamped me through with no so much as a "Welcome to Thailand" coming from her lips.  She did not ask me to show money or a return ticket by the way.

 

Now, I know, compared to some of the horror stories posted here this is nothing.  She looked at a computer screen, asked a few questions and stamped me through.  Big deal, right?  Heck, I get more of a 3rd degree coming back to the states than this.  Indeed, I hesitate to even post this story knowing some probably think I am over reacting.  But the thing is it really did *feel different* this time when I came in.  In all my years coming here I never had to stand there for 5 plus minutes while the immigration agent thought things over.  I honestly got the sense she was looking for a way to reject me and was bracing myself for bad news.  And I stood there much, much longer than anyone in the other lines around me.  (To the chagrin of people waiting in my line.)

 

Based on this experience I have decided to get a retirement visa with a multi-entry stamp.  I am over 50, already have health insurance and the bank account requirements, so I figured there was no major reason not to other than the hassle.  

 

It is my hope with the retirement Visa future entries into the country will be a little more smooth.  Like I said, I took my recent experience as a warning.  I'd suggest anyone over 50 who comes here more than once a year or has ties here (property, family, etc.) should just get the multi entry retirement Visa.  That's my opinion at least.  

 

 

[Pravda]

No offense, but who cares?

[rastlin]

None taken.

 

My purpose was to inform regarding my recent experience and to suggest to others in a similar spot as me (frequent travelers to Thailand but within the posted "rules" for entry) that getting a retirement Visa might be better than counting on immigration to enforce the rules as posted.

 

Sorry if the post is not worthwhile. 

 

 

 

 

[yokat]

44 minutes ago, rastlin said:

she stamped me through with no so much as a "Welcome to Thailand"

That's the standard experience for me, maybe you had talkative IOs before.

[Lacessit]

You will have to time your appearances here to fit in with the annual extension. Perhaps you knew that already. Miss the extension date by being elsewhere, and the process will have to be repeated all over again.

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, rastlin said:

Now, I know, compared to some of the horror stories posted here this is nothing.  She looked at a computer screen, asked a few questions and stamped me through.  Big deal, right?... But the thing is it really did *feel different*

"Big deal, right?"

Exactly.   And actual events trump your "feelings" (which were wrong) every time.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

32 minutes ago, rastlin said:

getting a retirement Visa might be better than counting on immigration to enforce the rules as posted.

In which circumstances have IB's rules not been enforced correctly?   Are you referring to the handful of people who have been caught out trying to live here on Tourist Visas, VEs or other spurious ways, deliberately shafting the system?

Edited January 20, 2020 by Just Weird

[Gweiloman]

OP, I commend you on your decision. You spend about 5-6 months a year here as well as owning your own condo so going down the retirement route is a no-brainer. 
I have never understood why long term stayers still insist on trying their luck with tourist visas and visa exempts. 

[steve187]

45 minutes ago, Pravda said:

No offense, but who cares?

useful post

[DrJack54]

OP, thinking your plan of obtaining a non o based on retirement best path.

If you decide to use money in bank method, your best to just lock away 800k in a Thai bank. 

You mentioned "retirement Visa". Sometimes that is used to refer to a non O-A. That previously been good option for you as you return home often and and could obtain new O-A every 2 years. 

However now with the useless Thai insurance requirement thinking non-O best option.

You can do conversion to non o from visa exempt entry or tourist visa at imm in Thailand or could obtain one in Thai consulate nearby country.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, rastlin said:

It is my hope with the retirement Visa future entries into the country will be a little more smooth.  Like I said, I took my recent experience as a warning.  I'd suggest anyone over 50 who comes here more than once a year or has ties here (property, family, etc.) should just get the multi entry retirement Visa.  That's my opinion at least. 

I got a retirement visa for similar reasons, I was in and out the country a lot, then I was stopped by immigration and only given 17 days stay as I had spent, according to them, too much time in the country, that was 15 years ago, its not like they have just started this practice, never had any issues whatsoever since getting the retirement visa! they make the rules!

[rastlin]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

OP, thinking your plan of obtaining a non o based on retirement best path.

If you decide to use money in bank method, your best to just lock away 800k in a Thai bank. 

You mentioned "retirement Visa". Sometimes that is used to refer to a non O-A. That previously been good option for you as you return home often and and could obtain new O-A every 2 years. 

However now with the useless Thai insurance requirement thinking non-O best option.

You can do conversion to non o from visa exempt entry or tourist visa at imm in Thailand or could obtain one in Thai consulate nearby country.

 

Hi DrJack54:

 

     Actually, I had purchased the health insurance previously as I spend a lot of time in Thailand and my U.S. insurance does not cover me here in Thailand.  I purchased an Etna policy that a friend of mine recommended as he had open heart surgery here in Thailand and the insurance covered everything.

 

     Visa requirements aside, I think it is wise to have health insurance of some sort in this county as things happen,  especially as we get older!

[gk10002000]

7 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

OP, I commend you on your decision. You spend about 5-6 months a year here as well as owning your own condo so going down the retirement route is a no-brainer. 
I have never understood why long term stayers still insist on trying their luck with tourist visas and visa exempts. 

Because the retirement visa extension financial process is not liked by many, especially US or UK that no longer do embassy income letters.  Now one has to tie up 800k baht in a thai bank, or make monthly transfers into a Thai bank account.  Transferring money monthly into a foreign bank in a foreign country in which a person may only spend 6 or 7 months of each year is a poor use of monies.  not to mention possibly having to deal with the Thai insurance garbage (OA only mostly at the moment).  So getting two SETVs of 60 day each and extending by 30 days is a viable alternative, not to mention a few 30 day visa exempt that require no advance planning or applications. 

 

  Now this fellow seems to have a condo so leaning towards dealing with the retirement visa extension route may make more sense to him.  The SETVs themselves require advance planning and coordination themselves.

[Maestro]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You will have to time your appearances here to fit in with the annual extension. Perhaps you knew that already. Miss the extension date by being elsewhere, and the process will have to be repeated all over again.

 

I am not so sure that where the OP writes "retirement visa" and "multi entry retirement visa", he means retirement extension.

[jimn]

OP you should clarify what you mean by a "Rertirement Visa". A Non OA applied for in your own country, which if used right can give 2 years stay but now has insurance requirements or an "Extension of Stay" in Thailand based on a Non O or for that matter a Non OA. The replies you get will vary depending on what you mean.

[Mike Teavee]

17 hours ago, rastlin said:

Based on this experience I have decided to get a retirement visa with a multi-entry stamp.  I am over 50, already have health insurance and the bank account requirements, so I figured there was no major reason not to other than the hassle.  

 

It is my hope with the retirement Visa future entries into the country will be a little more smooth.  Like I said, I took my recent experience as a warning.  I'd suggest anyone over 50 who comes here more than once a year or has ties here (property, family, etc.) should just get the multi entry retirement Visa.  That's my opinion at least.  

Had a similar experience in 2019 & so decided to apply for a Non-O "Retirement" Visa for exactly the same reasons, but I was visiting Thailand an average of 3 times every 2 months for 5-10 days per visit (was working in Singapore at the time) and whilst I always carried proof of employment in SG & > 20,000 THB in cash, I felt increasingly uncomfortable on each entry so after that (very friendly) chat with the IO, I went to Penang for the Non-O.

 

Since getting the Visa 18 months ago (Started with a One Year Non-O Multi-Entry so got 14 months from that & then extended my  permission to stay in Sept last year) I maintained the 3 Ins/Outs every 2 months until I retired in December so have probably visited 25-30 times on it & never a question, always stamped in until the end of my permission to stay (Sept 2020). 

 

Worth doing if you're a frequent visitor

 

[Bangkok Basha]

17 hours ago, rastlin said:

None taken.

 

My purpose was to inform regarding my recent experience and to suggest to others in a similar spot as me (frequent travelers to Thailand but within the posted "rules" for entry) that getting a retirement Visa might be better than counting on immigration to enforce the rules as posted.

 

Sorry if the post is not worthwhile. 

 

 

 

 

This is actually very useful, since I know a number of older travelers who own property here, but go and come repeatedly on visa exempt status, and are concerned that they could also be questioned about the frequency of their visits. Thanks for posting. 

[samsensam]

 

i was in a similar situation seven months here, five elsewhere, METV did the job but as you say the gentle questions on entry, though i was never hindered or threatened and always treated politely, made me think that i really should be using a more appropriate and convenient way to stay here for long periods. i was effectively living here part time, i was not a tourist.

 

I also didnt like having to leave the country every two months often finding myself doing visa runs, which were increasingly unpleasant, uncomfortable and frankly dangerous due to the van drivers and behaviour of other road users.

 

and last but not least i was easily able to afford the financial requirement.

 

so i have a retirement non imm O based on 800K, it took a bit of faffing around to set up but now runs very nicely. this has given me a much more straight forward and relaxing life.

[Tanoshi]

What the fluck is a 'Retirement Visa'.

 

An 'O', or 'O-A' Visa based on retirement, obtained from an overseas Thai Embassy/Consulate subject to what they offer, OR,

An 'Extension' of permission of stay, obtained at local Immigration offices, which is not a permit, not a Visa and subject to financial requirements.

 

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

What the fluck is a 'Retirement Visa'.

 

An 'O', or 'O-A' Visa based on retirement, obtained from an overseas Thai Embassy/Consulate subject to what they offer, OR,

An 'Extension' of permission of stay, obtained at local Immigration offices, which is not a permit, not a Visa and subject to financial requirements.

 

A number of Thai consulates, especially in Australia, market the OA visa as a "retirement visa". I remember ubonjoe challenging this some months ago and I posted a screenshot on the Forum at the time

[Tanoshi]

39 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

A number of Thai consulates, especially in Australia, market the OA visa as a "retirement visa". I remember ubonjoe challenging this some months ago and I posted a screenshot on the Forum at the time

They are issued for the purpose of retirement, as are extensions of stay.

 

Already the OP has caused confusion with members not knowing if he means an O-A Visa or an extension.

However the conditions of both are very different in use.

It would help immensely if the correct terms were used to identify one's Immigration status and the conditions therefore attached in order to give correct and helpful advice.

 

 

[Max69xl]

19 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

OP, I commend you on your decision. You spend about 5-6 months a year here as well as owning your own condo so going down the retirement route is a no-brainer. 
I have never understood why long term stayers still insist on trying their luck with tourist visas and visa exempts. 

"I have never understood why long term stayers still insist on trying their luck with tourist visas and visa exempts."

Those with tourist visas or visa exempts are imo not official long term stayers. 

 

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

They are issued for the purpose of retirement, as are extensions of stay.

 

Already the OP has caused confusion with members not knowing if he means an O-A Visa or an extension.

However the conditions of both are very different in use.

It would help immensely if the correct terms were used to identify one's Immigration status and the conditions therefore attached in order to give correct and helpful advice.

 

 

I don't think the OP wants any advises, he just informed us about his experiences and about a future retirement visa. What kind is irrelevant.  

[ThaiBunny]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Those with tourist visas or visa exempts are imo not official long term stayers.

None of us are long-term stayers; we're here at the passing whims and fancies of the Immigration Department. At best it's a year-to-year proposition that could change at the drop of an insurance policy

[OJAS]

23 hours ago, Pravda said:

No offense, but who cares?

A question which IMHO you would be far better off directing at those of my fellow Brits who wax lyrically on here in ecstatic joy about having received their new passport from the UK in 2 weeks or less!????

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, rastlin said:

 

Hi DrJack54:

 

     Actually, I had purchased the health insurance previously as I spend a lot of time in Thailand and my U.S. insurance does not cover me here in Thailand.  I purchased an Etna policy that a friend of mine recommended as he had open heart surgery here in Thailand and the insurance covered everything.

 

     Visa requirements aside, I think it is wise to have health insurance of some sort in this county as things happen,  especially as we get older!

Although Aetna are, indeed, a TGIA-approved insurer, it might still be advisable for you to check specifically with them whether they would be prepared to issue you with the certificate required by Immigration in the case of your policy. In this connection I trust that this policy does include outpatient cover of at least 40,000 THB?

Edited January 21, 2020 by OJAS

[mike787]

On 1/20/2020 at 8:35 AM, rastlin said:

I have a condo. 

What do you do after I/O officer refuses you entry and you spent millions on this condo?  No more entry to your home.

[rastlin]

15 minutes ago, mike787 said:

What do you do after I/O officer refuses you entry and you spent millions on this condo?  No more entry to your home.

 

Well, in this (hopefully) hypothetical situation I guess I would lose the money spent purchasing the condo as well as any other monies I had in the country.  When I purchased the condo, I weighed the purchase price against the cost of renting long term and it just seemed reasonable to me to go ahead and buy a place.

 

But, honestly, one should never invest money in *anything* (not just Thailand or condos) that they cannot afford to lose.  

[rastlin]

30 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Although Aetna are, indeed, a TGIA-approved insurer, it might still be advisable for you to check specifically with them whether they would be prepared to issue you with the certificate required by Immigration in the case of your policy. In this connection I trust that this policy does include outpatient cover of at least 40,000 THB?

 

That is a good point.  And yes I have well over the minimum amounts as I wanted this should some major medical need arise while I am in Thailand and I also wanted to get the policy while still "young" enough to qualify!

[mike787]

2 minutes ago, rastlin said:

 

Well, in this (hopefully) hypothetical situation I guess I would lose the money spent purchasing the condo as well as any other monies I had in the country.  When I purchased the condo, I weighed the purchase price against the cost of renting long term and it just seemed reasonable to me to go ahead and buy a place.

 

But, honestly, one should never invest money in *anything* (not just Thailand or condos) that they cannot afford to lose.  

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to provide an honest answer.  Deep down I was hoping there would be an alternative for all of us that would preserve or avoid the loss, but there simply is NOT.  I love Thailand, BUT the fear of risking such a loss is simply Unacceptable.  I also do get your point about renting versus buying, I am also at that point.  However, leaning to renting only.  Good luck to you on all your future interactions with I/O.