Need an alternative international postal service

[Monomial]

Hi all.

 

I have a bit of a dilemma. I need to send some things overseas that require an active cooling system. The packages are small, but contain herbal remedies. Nothing illegal, however the nature of the products means that the private couriers FedEx, DHL, UPS, etc. will not accept them. They say "use the post office".

 

OK, not a problem but Thailand Post says that absolutely anything containing *ANY* kind of battery is forbidden. Doesn't matter if it is lithium, alkaline, sealed, invisible, etc. If it is any kind of power source, the answer is no. They are just way over the top with their restrictions. No other postal service in the world is that egregious with their policies, but this is Thailand and it is what it is.

 

So basically, the Thai private couriers won't take the items because of the contents. And Thailand Post won't take the items because it contains a battery.

 

Are there any other options? I have heard that there are logistics services that can ship through Singapore Post from Thailand, but I have no idea who these might be. Can anyone think of any other shipping options that are relatively inexpensive, will make ultimate delivery through the destination country's postal system (so no customs clearance issues), and have a realistic policy about batteries?

 

Most packages will be shipped to Europe or the US, but occasionally to other countries as well.

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[CharlieH]

Any items entering a country will be subject to Customs clearance there is no bypassing that. (that I am aware of).

You would need to check the destination country policy on batteries too, as pointless finding a way to get it there, if customs/postal policy prohibits its progression and its destroyed at entry.

 

This seems on the face of it, more trouble than its worth, my suggestion would be ship without said battery and tell customer to purchase locally and avoid the whole issue.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, Monomial said:

So basically, the Thai private couriers won't take the items because of the contents. And Thailand Post won't take the items because it contains a battery.

You can buy anything you want from AliExpress (China).

Nobody checks, nobody cares.

[ianezy0]

I will do it ????

Return ticket will be required.

Batteries will be included!

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by ianezy0

[Monomial]

16 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Any items entering a country will be subject to Customs clearance there is no bypassing that. (that I am aware of).

You would need to check the destination country policy on batteries too, as pointless finding a way to get it there, if customs/postal policy prohibits its progression and its destroyed at entry.

 

This seems on the face of it, more trouble than its worth, my suggestion would be ship without said battery and tell customer to purchase locally and avoid the whole issue.

The issue isn't customs clearance. The issue is the  private couriers in Thailand (DHL, FedEx, etc.) do not want to accept the responsibility for clearance. There is no issue clearing these products when shipped by post. They are not illegal.

 

I can not ship without the battery, as it is necessary to run the active cooling system to keep the product temperature stable during transport.

 

Also, there is no other country that has an eggregious battery policy like Thailand post. Alkaline batteries are not disallowed anywhere except in Thailand.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Monomial

[Monomial]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You can buy anything you want from AliExpress (China).

Nobody checks, nobody cares.

This is for exporting from Thailand, not importing.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Monomial said:

This is for exporting from Thailand, not importing.

My mistake.

[Monomial]

8 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

I will do it ????

Return ticket will be required.

Batteries will be included!

 

My budget is on the order of $10 per package if you want to do it for me....

[CharlieH]

"Alkaline batteries are not disallowed anywhere except in Thailand"

 

Royal Mail would disagree with you "

• UK destinations - Not allowed in the mail

Batteries - new alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd), zinc-air and zinc chloride  Including D, C, 9V, AA, AAA and AAAA alkaline batteries.

 

 

The US mail service stipulates they MUST be removed from the item therefore defeating the object you are using them for.

"All batteries are considered hazardous when shipped; it is important to be aware of what you can send and what you can't. ... If you are sending day-to-day batteries such as AA or AAA, be sure to remove them from the electrical item they are used for."

 

This probably why the couriers wont as they wont be responsible for rejection or disposal on arrival in another country.

 

[LivinLOS]

10 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

"Alkaline batteries are not disallowed anywhere except in Thailand"

 

Royal Mail would disagree with you "

• UK destinations - Not allowed in the mail

Batteries - new alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd), zinc-air and zinc chloride  Including D, C, 9V, AA, AAA and AAAA alkaline batteries.

 

 

The US mail service stipulates they MUST be removed from the item therefore defeating the object you are using them for.

"All batteries are considered hazardous when shipped; it is important to be aware of what you can send and what you can't. ... If you are sending day-to-day batteries such as AA or AAA, be sure to remove them from the electrical item they are used for."

 

This probably why the couriers wont as they wont be responsible for rejection or disposal on arrival in another country.

 

yeah was going to say the same.. UK post destroyed a fairly valuable item of mine because my brother didnt declare the battery.. 

[jackdd]

Can you post a link to the cooling device which you are using?

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Can you post a link to the cooling device which you are using?

 

No, because I built it myself. But it is basically nothing more than 12706 Thermoelectric peltier cooler, a very low power Cortex M0+, a few passives, an NDT thermistor and a battery. All that is wrapped in a thick XPS box with the outside coated in an aluminum foil heat sink which is connected to the hot side of the TEC.  The foil never needs to get over 1 - 2 degrees above ambient for a short time to dissipate the heat that seeps through the heavy insulation.  The small inside compartment is actively protected at just above room temperature when sitting in a hot warehouse for days at a time.

 

Models predict I need approximately 5 Watt-hours of energy to keep the product below 30 degrees for the 3 weeks of transit through the post office.

 

Unfortunately, it looks as if the whole idea is DOA if I can not find anyone willing to transport the packaging.  I find it discouraging that unnecessary and ill conceived regulation can kill any kind of innovtion.

 

[Why Me]

A homemade battery-operated contraption to cool strange herbs? I don't think customs anywhere will look at this kindly.

 

You might consider an express dispatch with the stuff packed in dry ice. A lot more expensive but a courier might be willing to take you on.

 

And have you considered air drying the herbs and sending them as is? I thought dehydrated herbs last forever.

[Henryford]

It seems odd because i buy loads of stuff from Lazada and Aliexpress and they all come with batteries.

[varun]

It seems that the terms "postal service" and "courier service" are being used interchangeably.

 

To be clear, postal services such as Thailand Post, Royal UK Mail, Hong Kong Post etc. will refuse shipments containing batteries, regardless of battery size.

This especially applies to international shipments - although, they maybe lenient if the shipment is domestic.

 

The only reliable way to ship "goods containing batteries" or "goods shipped with batteries" (i.e. battery not contained inside the equipment itself) internationally,

is to either use a freight forwarder or a courier service (DHL/UPS/FedEx).

Further restrictions apply in courier services as well, depending on the battery size (in wH), 

although I won't get into that here.

 

 

 

[Monomial]

21 hours ago, Why Me said:

A homemade battery-operated contraption to cool strange herbs? I don't think customs anywhere will look at this kindly.

 

You might consider an express dispatch with the stuff packed in dry ice. A lot more expensive but a courier might be willing to take you on.

 

And have you considered air drying the herbs and sending them as is? I thought dehydrated herbs last forever.

 

Sadly dry ice is too cold. It could result in condensation when warmed unless the customer warms it under a dry nitrogen generator. Dry ice also sublimates way too fast. You could never include enough dry ice to last weeks. And the herbs are already freeze dried and packed in vacuum. This isn't about bacteria. Even freeze dried the proteins are still denatured when exposed to significant heat, as can occur when left for a few days in a non climate controlled postal warehouse. Temperatures in the sun can easily climb to 60°C or more for hours at a time. Basically cooking them slowly in the package. They really need to be kept between 15°C - 25°C. The only thing I can think of to do this is an active cooling system.

 

If there is any kind of lightweight substance that sublimates directly from solid to gas at atomospheric pressure and 30°C I would definitely use it. I don't know of anything though, and I suspect chemistry forbids anything like that being lightweight even if it could be constructed. An active system seems to be the only option. Exotic transport options (like cool containers by sea) aren't really cost effective either. Those only works for bulk transport, and trying to establish distribution networks like that opens up an entirely different set of problems.

 

This simple method would work if not for these unreasonably restrictive policies. There is no danger from what I am conceiving. It is only a legal impediment from people who have been overly aggressive with their fears. I am still looking for ways around the issue if I can figure how to get the items picked up in Thailand and sent by Singapore Post. They have much more reasonable policies.

 

[jackdd]

On 1/21/2020 at 8:49 PM, Monomial said:

No, because I built it myself.

You didn't specify where you want to ship it, but don't forget that to import your device in for example the European Union it would need a CE marking, which your DIY device won't have. I guess many other countries also have such regulations.

[scoutman360]

My work has shipped epoxies packed in dry ice to other countries all the time. You might consider that.

[AAArdvark]

How do mobile phones get sent all over the place without issue?

[Social Media]

A dodgy device with home made circuitry with a power supply ????? like that's not gonna get incinerated on site !

Could be a detonator for all they know, very suspicious and rightly destroyed. Ridiculous to try such a thing in my opinion.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

How do mobile phones get sent all over the place without issue?

 

At least in the U.S., the rules have gotten quite byzantine...

 

AFAIK, the private couriers these days won't ship LITHIUM battery containing packages at least internationally.

 

The USPS will ship internationally products that come with the lithium battery preinstalled like a tablet, or products like a cell phone where the lithium battery is packaged with the product.  But AFAIK, none of them will ship just a package containing lithium battery(ies) alone.

 

But that's the U.S. for international shipping. Doesn't apply to the rules for shipping OUT of Thailand.

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Chesney]

15 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

How do mobile phones get sent all over the place without issue?

as a business,it is much easier to import/export mobile phones.

i dont think OP is a business,would be the weirdest thing ever.

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, Black Ops said:

A dodgy device with home made circuitry with a power supply ????? like that's not gonna get incinerated on site !

Could be a detonator for all they know, very suspicious and rightly destroyed. Ridiculous to try such a thing in my opinion.

"Dodgy"???

 

I think not. There is no "power supply". Just a battery. And the power levels are very low. Also, as it is not designed for consumer use, a CE mark is not strictly required. Although that could be a legal gray area. However, if a CE mark was the only stumbling block, that is easy enough to obtain. And since the whole circuit is inside a foil shield, there is no risk of spurious radio emissions.

 

You are correct is could be a denotator, but there would be no explosive device to go along with it. You could also claim it could be a black hole generator or faster than light engine. It could be anything. The package is clearly not a bomb however.  And if they could X-Ray through the foil (which is likely because it is very thin foil) then they would immediately know it was harmless. If they can't X-Ray through the foil, then they wouldn't even know there was a circuit in there to begin with. Unless they opened it of course, in which case, again, they would see the circuit is harmless.

 

I am not saying that there isn't some crazy reason an overly zealous postal clerk could not find to deny this. I am saying there is no reason why this should not be allowed, and it is only because of overly eggregious regulations that such things are not possible. I am still hoping I can find some service that holds a more reasonable view on physics however.

 

 

[Social Media]

1 minute ago, Monomial said:

"Dodgy"???

 

I think not. There is no "power supply". Just a battery. And the power levels are very low. Also, as it is not designed for consumer use, a CE mark is not strictly required. Although that could be a legal gray area. However, if a CE mark was the only stumbling block, that is easy enough to obtain. And since the whole circuit is inside a foil shield, there is no risk of spurious radio emissions.

 

You are correct is could be a denotator, but there would be no explosive device to go along with it. You could also claim it could be a black hole generator or faster than light engine. It could be anything. The package is clearly not a bomb however.  And if they could X-Ray through the foil (which is likely because it is very thin foil) then they would immediately know it was harmless. If they can't X-Ray through the foil, then they wouldn't even know there was a circuit in there to begin with. Unless they opened it of course, in which case, again, they would see the circuit is harmless.

 

I am not saying that there isn't some crazy reason an overly zealous postal clerk could not find to deny this. I am saying there is no reason why this should not be allowed, and it is only because of overly eggregious regulations that such things are not possible. I am still hoping I can find some service that holds a more reasonable view on physics however.

 

 

Whilst your explanations etc may sound plausible, what you have to remember is the person sat on a x-ray conveyor belt with parcels/packets etc streaming through they just hit the button if its the wrong color etc on the monitor, thats the extent of the involvement of the minimum wage individual on the machine. No if, or buts or maybe or lets have a look, its just rejected and incinerated ! (in most cases).

Up to you, as the Thais say but whilst you may get it passed the initial clerk and pay, I doubt very much it will progress into another country mail system.

But your money your choice. Best of luck.