Widespread sugarcane burning continues uninterrupted by local authorities

[Enki]

1 hour ago, kickstart said:

Nearly all farmers are farmers only and do not have "real jobs" a lot will take on another job in the off season ,to do what we would do ,pay the bills and live .20 years ago the saying was Bangkok was built by Issan rice farmers ,working in town  during the off season ,then back home to the rice fields when the rains come

Well, last year Thalaind was number one rice exporter. This year they had mayour losses, especially in Isaan. So if you want to nitpick, up to you. No idea what position they now have. My point was against the ranting of my parent that rice is poisoned, had low quality and was forbidden to be sold in first world countries.

 

What you write above is exactly what I say: thy have a real job, and farming is their "hobby" or "recreation". The only farmers here who only do farming are those who are either retired, or are into breeding animals. Nearly every farm here is run by a school teacher, a shop owner a police officer .... you name it.

 

Sure there are "pure farmers" as in having no secondary job, but that is a very small minority in the area where I am living.

 

The loan situation has nothing to do with the topic. Thai like to make debts ... does not matter if they are a farmer or are mid management in a bank. Except perhaps a bank manager would hopefully be a little bit smarter.

 

Ah, I know one, a cousine of my wife, she is a pure farmer. But she manages the renting of tractors and harvestor machines for most of our other cousines, she only has like 30 rai fields. However she is most certainly not poor. However I guess she gets more money from her boyfriends and her husband than from the field. So technically she is not a "pure farmer" either as her husband has a "real job".

[WalkingOrders]

I came across this which is an interesting article which, within discusses how Brazil has transitioned from burning to non-burning. It began in 2007, did not take place overnight, was a longterm plan, done in conjunction with the sugarcane industry, and has now resulted in 20% higher yields. A win win for all. Maybe Thailand can model this?

https://www.sierraclub.org/florida/sugar-cane-field-burning

[JimmyJ]

13 hours ago, Enki said:

I left two weeks ago. But according to my wife the air is fine. I have no devices to make air readings and I actually don't know what your numbers mean.

 

I live ~60km east of the city Sakon Nakhon, in Nakhon Phanom province, if that clarifies it.

You and your wife are naive, as I suspected.

 

I assume your wife looked outside, could see clearly for a distance, didn't smell smoke, and told you "No air problem", and that you've been doing likewise.

 

This is like declaring "I feel fine and I don't see any bleeding, so I have no need for Doctor annual checkups."

 

Download the airvisual app and read there and at aqicn.org and learn what the numbers I posted mean.

 

The Air Quality numbers for Nakhom Phanom appear similar to the unhealthy air numbers for Thailand in general - right now 79 to 97 for NP, but even Bangkok is

better today than they've been recently and has similar numbers today.

Edited January 25, 2020 by JimmyJ

[Enki]

24 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

You and your wife are naive, as I suspected.

 

I assume your wife looked outside, could see clearly for a distance, didn't smell smoke, and told you "No air problem", and that you've been doing likewise.

 

This is like declaring "I feel fine and I don't see any bleeding, so I have no need for Doctor annual checkups."

 

Download the airvisual app and read there and at aqicn.org and learn what the numbers I posted mean.

 

The Air Quality numbers for Nakhom Phanom appear similar to the unhealthy air numbers for Thailand in general - right now 79 to 97 for NP, but even Bangkok is

better today than they've been recently and has similar numbers today.

As I said, I just left there about two weeks ago, actually today it is two weeks. And no: there is no sugar  burning at all. And the amount of rice burning is something like less than 10% of the fields, probably even lower than 5%. But next time, I make photos and try to count. 

If the air is bad in Nakhon Phanom, it is - like in BKK - most likely traffic and industry. I live in Nakhon Phanom PROVINCE, not in the city or I would have stated it, 60km east of Sakon Nakhon (which is a pretty precise spot) ... perhaps you want to look on a map?

[kickstart]

19 hours ago, Enki said:

Well, last year Thalaind was number one rice exporter. This year they had mayour losses, especially in Isaan. So if you want to nitpick, up to you. No idea what position they now have. My point was against the ranting of my parent that rice is poisoned, had low quality and was forbidden to be sold in first world countries.

 

What you write above is exactly what I say: thy have a real job, and farming is their "hobby" or "recreation". The only farmers here who only do farming are those who are either retired, or are into breeding animals. Nearly every farm here is run by a school teacher, a shop owner a police officer .... you name it.

 

Sure there are "pure farmers" as in having no secondary job, but that is a very small minority in the area where I am living.

 

The loan situation has nothing to do with the topic. Thai like to make debts ... does not matter if they are a farmer or are mid management in a bank. Except perhaps a bank manager would hopefully be a little bit smarter.

 

Ah, I know one, a cousine of my wife, she is a pure farmer. But she manages the renting of tractors and harvestor machines for most of our other cousines, she only has like 30 rai fields. However she is most certainly not poor. However I guess she gets more money from her boyfriends and her husband than from the field. So technically she is not a "pure farmer" either as her husband has a "real job".

Come down to me Lopburi province 90% of the farmers are real farmers ,the farm is they living ,ask your cousin how much debt she has ,and how much money per year she actually makes,with cost taken out . 

My area is a big dairy farm area ,best part of 1000 small farms all are real framers ,the sons and daughter's ect will work away from the farm leaving the parent's to look after the kids ,they income will pay for they cars, smart phones, credit cards ect ,the farm  pay has to pay for its self they are not hobby farms by any means .

They is one farm with very big investment owned by a police man ,does not make any money  can not ,just hope he dose not pull you up check diving licence etc any thing a miss you will get fined  , and help pay his feed bill,plus one other  owned by the BIB, 2 out of 1000 not even the tip of the iceberg.

Come down here and vist real world , and ask this question over in TV's  Farming Forum  and see the response  you get , should be interesting.

Again last year LOS was  not number one rice exporter,not been they for 3 years now . 

 

 

[DrTuner]

9 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I came across this which is an interesting article which, within discusses how Brazil has transitioned from burning to non-burning. It began in 2007, did not take place overnight, was a longterm plan, done in conjunction with the sugarcane industry, and has now resulted in 20% higher yields. A win win for all. Maybe Thailand can model this?

https://www.sierraclub.org/florida/sugar-cane-field-burning

Thailand never takes advice from outside. Brazilians count as evil farangs. They have to reinvent the wheel each and every time with worse results.

[Chrysaora]

On 1/20/2020 at 6:39 PM, CharlieH said:

I suggest its more driven by finances, if they can get more money for one than the other they dont focus on the future they focus on eating this week !

They are killing children, and not so slowly.  Why give them a pass?

[Enki]

On 1/25/2020 at 1:38 PM, kickstart said:

Come down to me Lopburi province 90% of the farmers are real farmers ,the farm is they living ,ask your cousin how much debt she has ,and how much money per year she actually makes,with cost taken out . 

My area is a big dairy farm area ,best part of 1000 small farms all are real framers ,the sons and daughter's ect will work away from the farm leaving the parent's to look after the kids ,they income will pay for they cars, smart phones, credit cards ect ,the farm  pay has to pay for its self they are not hobby farms by any means .

They is one farm with very big investment owned by a police man ,does not make any money  can not ,just hope he dose not pull you up check diving licence etc any thing a miss you will get fined  , and help pay his feed bill,plus one other  owned by the BIB, 2 out of 1000 not even the tip of the iceberg.

Come down here and vist real world , and ask this question over in TV's  Farming Forum  and see the response  you get , should be interesting.

Again last year LOS was  not number one rice exporter,not been they for 3 years now . 

 

 

Last Year it was number two after India ....

[mike787]

Anyone surprised?  Really?  Why?

[Odysseus123]

On 1/25/2020 at 11:46 PM, DrTuner said:

Thailand never takes advice from outside. Brazilians count as evil farangs. They have to reinvent the wheel each and every time with worse results.

That is true and is,indeed,the crux of the problem.

 

Any critique  or analysis (scientific or otherwise) an be deemed "unpatriotic" and against "Thai cultural values" which stymies much in the way of innovative farming techniques-or original thinking of any sort,on any level.

 

Criticism,in my view,is actually perceived to be an almost minor form of Lese Majeste..so it is a top down model that continually reinforces itself.

 

However the Gov't has at last acknowledged that the Thai themselves are contributing to the predictable crisis-in a teeny,weeny,little way,of course.

 

Life goes on as usual in the heavily polluted Potemkin village.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Odysseus123

[Assurancetourix]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:37 PM, Enki said:

I live ~60km east of the city Sakon Nakhon, in Nakhon Phanom province, if that clarifies it.

Why not writting Na Khae  ( 40 km )  or That Phanom ? Maybe Renu Nakhon ?

 

I know a french man who is living in Na Khae with his thai wife and their children ;

he is a tanker commander ; he speaks fluently thai and thai-isaan languages .

my oldest daughter in law is living in That Phanom where she works for the hospital as a civil servant .

 

[LomSak27]

On 1/20/2020 at 6:35 PM, YetAnother said:

On 1/20/2020 at 6:22 PM, snoop1130 said:

Burning of sugarcane by farmers in several provinces is increasing airborne pollution, affecting local residents, and officials appear to be powerless or reluctant to intervene to stop the practice.

to me it all boils down to intelligence , generally lack of it here;

thais do not seem capable of joining the ideas that something i do has general consequences that ultimately affect me and my children

Comes down to money. If you are not going to donate directly to farmers why not start a GoFunfMe - them, campaign. Be a part of the solution! 

[Enki]

16 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Why not writting Na Khae  ( 40 km )  or That Phanom ? Maybe Renu Nakhon ?

 

I know a french man who is living in Na Khae with his thai wife and their children ;

he is a tanker commander ; he speaks fluently thai and thai-isaan languages .

my oldest daughter in law is living in That Phanom where she works for the hospital as a civil servant .

 

I actually live close to Na Khae about 10km. That Phanom is like 80km east of Sakon Nakhon. Perhaps we meet once ... I'm back in Isaan around Songkrahn.

[mike787]

Thailand CAN stop this, only if it wants to.  It does not want to.  Simple.

[DPKANKAN]

This is Kanchanaburi this morning. I cannot see across the fields opposite my house. And am only half a mile from the bus station in town!!????????????????

[Toany]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:00 PM, spidermike007 said:

One place to start would be to impose a fine of 15,000 baht on all cane farmers found burning cane. Second offense. Fine of 200,000 baht permanently levied against the land and a warning that on the third offense the fine will be a million baht and the land will be permanently confiscated. 

 

This is an emergency situation. This is the beginning of a long term plague. People are dying. Someone needs to do something. The army is totally inadequate for the task. Way over their small heads. Incompetent beyond the most drastic nightmare scenarios. 

Just make it illegal to buy burnt sugar cane.  Easy to control the factories.  But the government has given the factories the OK to process 50% burnt sugar cane.

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, Toany said:

Just make it illegal to buy burnt sugar cane.  Easy to control the factories.  But the government has given the factories the OK to process 50% burnt sugar cane.

Back to the same argument, government will not stop cane burning  ,the molasses and some of the crushed stokes go on to make ethyl alcohol ,for fuel for our cars etc ,so less expensive  imported crud oil .

Last week the webfacts posted ,saying  more sugar cane factories to be built ,I would say not for the sugar but the ethyl alcohol .

This subject will come up again for sure ,and again noting will be done ,just one of the problems of us  living in Thailand .

[phka]

On 1/20/2020 at 7:03 PM, VocalNeal said:

Someone lost their life burning sugar cane?

Yea the people breathing in the filthy smoke 

[canopy]

On 1/23/2020 at 11:14 PM, Enki said:

1. Most farmers are not poor

Thai farmers poorest in ASEAN

 

40% of Thai farmers live under poverty line

 

On 1/23/2020 at 11:14 PM, Enki said:

1. calling Thailands products "unhealthy" and "poison" - is a lie and close to a libel case

41 percent of vegetables in Thai markets exceed contamination standards

 

On 1/23/2020 at 11:14 PM, Enki said:

1. burning is a regional issue

State of burning as of satellite photo today:

 

 

On 1/23/2020 at 11:14 PM, Enki said:

Thailand is the biggest rice exporter of the world. And their first class quality rice is exported into countries like Germany or France.

These first world markets only accept produce that meets strict standards. Thus they get the cream of the crop and the Thai people are left to eat the unhealthy dregs.

 

On 1/23/2020 at 11:14 PM, Enki said:

I have the impression you don't know much about farming in Thailand.

These are facts. Impressions are meaningless.