Widespread sugarcane burning continues uninterrupted by local authorities

[Assurancetourix]

3 hours ago, canopy said:

They are in poverty because they grow antiquated subsistence farming size plots which are not competitive with modern, efficient growers around the world. 10 rai worked for subsistence, not anymore. Today Thai farmers have become a burden to the tax payer.

Wrote the one who has never worked a single hour in a rice field or a sugar cane field.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, CGW said:

If they wanted to take action all they have to do is ban the mills from buying burnt cane - easy, but costly for them!

The end user, the "good old boys" club that makes all the money, they are never mentioned, easy to create bad publicity for the "Farmers" who have no recourse to what the government propaganda rags print, not as stupid as some people think are they?

 

It would be interesting to find some way of assessing what portion of the agricultural burning/air pollution issue is related to sugar cane fields vs. the portion related to rice fields....

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes, selling all the land to big corporations to grow genetically modified Frankenstein food, and making all the rural population homeless, like we did in the west,  is such a better idea. 

 

There's always "farmer's daughter" jobs to be had in Bangkok.... 

 

That's one way out of agricultural subsistence business....

 

[overherebc]

37 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's always "farmer's daughter" jobs to be had in Bangkok.... 

 

That's one way out of agricultural subsistence business....

 

And no tax.

[DrTuner]

48 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It would be interesting to find some way of assessing what portion of the agricultural burning/air pollution issue is related to sugar cane fields vs. the portion related to rice fields....

What I do know is Pattaya didn't get smoggy until a few years ago. The same time sugar cane articles started to pop up in TVF. I seriously doubt that's a coincidence.

[canopy]

1 hour ago, Assurancetourix said:

Wrote the one who has never worked a single hour in a rice field or a sugar cane field.

Very funny and not true. I can guarantee the sheer quantity and toughness of manual labor I have done in my life would make you look like a pampered weakling. I've done long stretches of farm labor at minimum wage in the blazing hot merciless sun with never any shade and not a drop of water because carrying a canteen into the fields was considered only for weaklings where I come from. That was easy. I've done way tougher and way more things than this. I don't care how old you are, I'd be happy to go up against you on any physical challenge of your choice and prove who is tougher and who is the pencil neck weakling behind a keyboard. You have no idea who you are talking to. The stupid, ignorant comments some people make here. 

 

[mikebell]

On 1/20/2020 at 6:35 PM, YetAnother said:

to me it all boils down to intelligence , generally lack of it here;

thais do not seem capable of joining the ideas that something i do has general consequences that ultimately affect me and my children

I have never met a more self-centered, selfish lot.  They will park and block narrow sois whilst they get their noodles.  They consider themselves VIPs so don't need to queue at traffic lights but will form another lane when turning right and sod those wanting to go straight on.

[Assurancetourix]

5 minutes ago, canopy said:

You have no idea who you are talking to.

 

and I don't care ...

Reading you , I feel that you want to make a contest to know which of us has the longest;
I already know that you will lose ..

[canopy]

Wrong again. I am here to discuss the topic at hand, nothing more. Sometimes the truth is difficult for some to accept. Are my comments so solid that you can think of nothing else but to make unflattering personal remarks? Surely you can do better. Feel free to join the discussion with useful information and rebuttal any time.

 

[johng]

 

22 minutes ago, canopy said:

in the blazing hot merciless sun with never any shade and not a drop of water because carrying a canteen into the fields was considered only for weaklings where I come from

Don't know about weakness, seems quite unwise to me.

[spidermike007]

One place to start would be to impose a fine of 15,000 baht on all cane farmers found burning cane. Second offense. Fine of 200,000 baht permanently levied against the land and a warning that on the third offense the fine will be a million baht and the land will be permanently confiscated. 

 

This is an emergency situation. This is the beginning of a long term plague. People are dying. Someone needs to do something. The army is totally inadequate for the task. Way over their small heads. Incompetent beyond the most drastic nightmare scenarios. 

[CGW]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It would be interesting to find some way of assessing what portion of the agricultural burning/air pollution issue is related to sugar cane fields vs. the portion related to rice fields....

If they were able to stop them burning sugar cane - be easy 

Rice field burning must be down by same percentage as sugar can production has grown?

 

[CGW]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

One place to start would be to impose a fine of 15,000 baht on all cane farmers found burning cane. Second offense. Fine of 200,000 baht permanently levied against the land and a warning that on the third offense the fine will be a million baht and the land will be permanently confiscated. 

Wouldn't it be far easier to stop the processing plants buying burnt cane, also if the "buyers" from the mills insisted on "tractability", which is quite simple in this day and age. They should be refusing to buy burnt cane, the processing plants and the buyers are the people making the real money from sugar cane yet nobody is targeting them, most likely due to the ownership,  they are untouchable!

[spidermike007]

18 hours ago, CGW said:

Wouldn't it be far easier to stop the processing plants buying burnt cane, also if the "buyers" from the mills insisted on "tractability", which is quite simple in this day and age. They should be refusing to buy burnt cane, the processing plants and the buyers are the people making the real money from sugar cane yet nobody is targeting them, most likely due to the ownership,  they are untouchable!

Spot on. They are large, they are responsible for generating alot of money, regardless of the cost to the environment, and the army just does not care, one iota for the health of the people. As long as the elite, the super wealthy, those in power, the police and the top guys are healthy, that is all that is important for these destructive and insatiable men.

 

There are a dozen effective solutions to this plague facing the nation. And it could be argued that Thailand is at a tipping point. But, is anything being done? 

Edited January 23, 2020 by spidermike007

[CGW]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

But, is anything being done? 

Think you know the answer to that question!

Sad, a nations health being adversely affected so those at the end of the money trail can get even richer! Those same people who should be taking action, if you follow the money, seem to have sold their souls to further their wealth, which explains the inaction!

[thequietman]

22 hours ago, canopy said:

I've done long stretches of farm labor at minimum wage in the blazing hot merciless sun with never any shade and not a drop of water because carrying a canteen into the fields was considered only for weaklings where I come from.

Were rabid dogs chasing you at the same time ?? ???? Did you have shoes? 

[DrTuner]

22 hours ago, CGW said:

If they were able to stop them burning sugar cane - be easy 

Rice field burning must be down by same percentage as sugar can production has grown?

 

Hmmm. I remember 2007 was still crystal clear skies here in Patts, the farang smoking seasons started sometime in 2017 or 18 I think. Production hasn't grown by that much, if those figures are to be believed in. Did the farmers invent fire a 2-3 years ago or what? Something doesn't quite match.

[CGW]

1 minute ago, DrTuner said:

Did the farmers invent fire a 2-3 years ago or what? Something doesn't quite match.

Awareness? 

[Enki]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:17 AM, canopy said:

I don't know what the future is, but when I look around Thailand's failed system of poor farmers and poor quality produce coming from them I am sure that is not it. Thailand's produce is extremely unhealthy and poisons they use are banned or extremely curtailed in the first world. Not only is the health of the people being trampled on, so is that of the environment. Thailand should have healthier food, richer farmers, and a cleaner environment instead of propping up this failed, downward spiral of burning and poisoning everything.

 

I have the impression you don't know much about farming in Thailand.

1. Most farmers are not poor
2. many farmers are part time farmers and have a "real job"
3. calling Thailands products "unhealthy" and "poison" - is a lie and close to a libel case
4. burning is a regional issue - where I live not many do it, we certainly have no air issues
5. the farming population actually has a quite happy life, you think they are poor because they work in old rags? What would you wear? A suit?

Don't forget: Thailand is the biggest rice exporter of the world. And their first class quality rice is exported into countries like Germany or France. But obviously that are not first world countries ... and the rice in the supermarkets is full of poison (and were would that come from?)

[Enki]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:02 AM, Assurancetourix said:

I too would like to know where, in which province in Isaan;
in any case in mine, Sakon Nakhon and that which touches Udon Thani, the fields of sugar cane burn every night;
I should have tried a photo last night;
far from my home, can be ten km, on the horizon, towards Song Dao I think, a magnificent red / orange color which clearly indicated to me that one or more fields were burning.

Could as well be a harvested rice field. I leave east of SK in Nakhon Phanom province. Here I only saw burning of harvested rice fields. But of course that means nothing ..

[Enki]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:18 AM, Assurancetourix said:

 

It is exactly the same when there is a flood;
as long as it does not touch Bangkok, the authorities do not care;
The rest of Thailand can be under 2 meters of muddy water,
Bangkok is not, the authorities do not move.
but there, in addition to industrial and automobile pollution, smoke from the cane fields arrives in Bangkok and the authorities discover the extent of the disaster that affects all of Thailand.
I think it is too late , except to use the army to go and do the work for which the police are paid ... but which they refuse to do for multiple reasons;
to start with this one:

the police are generally local people because they bought their place and were not appointed according to their results on the final exam.
It is impossible for a cop to go and fine his brother-in-law or his father ...

That is not correct. The water  authorities do many things. However the previous decades Thailand did not take water management as serious how King Rama IX urged them.

[Toany]

If it is illegal to burn sugar cane the it should be illegal for the sugar cane factories to buy and process it. 

It is much easier to control the sugar cane factories and the farmers will stop burning immediately.

I live on an area where they burn the sugar cane.  Normal AQI 50 as the picture shows over 200 after a night of burning

[DrTuner]

13 hours ago, Enki said:

burning is a regional issue - where I live not many do it, we certainly have no air issue

Not. Unless you mean SEA as the region. https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-ii-72539f9b767a

 

Quote

Burning activities as far as 720 km away from Bangkok, an area which extends into Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia, can cause air problems in Bangkok.

 

Which was obvious for everybody looking at fire maps and wind charts. The real cause here is the sugar industry is untouchable. So expect a portion of population to die from PM2.5 related diseases as nothing will be done. In other countries it would be called mass murder. In here it's called profit.

[DrTuner]

23 hours ago, CGW said:

Awareness? 

No I don't think so, it's pretty easy to see smog, just look up. When did Cambodia start large scale sugar cane production? Something changed a few years back. Could of course be Thais simply got lazy and found out there's zero enforcement so it all went maibpenrai shaped.

[JimmyJ]

14 hours ago, Enki said:

I have the impression you don't know much about farming in Thailand.

1. Most farmers are not poor
2. many farmers are part time farmers and have a "real job"
3. calling Thailands products "unhealthy" and "poison" - is a lie and close to a libel case
4. burning is a regional issue - where I live not many do it, we certainly have no air issues
5. the farming population actually has a quite happy life, you think they are poor because they work in old rags? What would you wear? A suit?

Don't forget: Thailand is the biggest rice exporter of the world. And their first class quality rice is exported into countries like Germany or France. But obviously that are not first world countries ... and the rice in the supermarkets is full of poison (and were would that come from?)

"4. Burning is a regional issue - where I live not many do it, we certainly have no air issues"

 

Where are you with no air issues?

Edited January 24, 2020 by JimmyJ

[Enki]

3 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

"4. Burning is a regional issue - where I live not many do it, we certainly have no air issues"

 

Where are you with no air issues?

60km east of Sakhon Nakhon.

[JimmyJ]

4 hours ago, Enki said:

60km east of Sakhon Nakhon.

Air Visual at the minute showing Sakhon Nakhon as 80 to 112.

 

Is 60 km far enough to get better air than that?

 

It is showing 18 different names under SN and possibly includes your area or at least I imagine closer to you than 60 km.

 

Have you taken a reading with a device? 

You'll probably be surprised.

Edited January 24, 2020 by JimmyJ

[kickstart]

22 hours ago, Enki said:

I have the impression you don't know much about farming in Thailand.

1. Most farmers are not poor
2. many farmers are part time farmers and have a "real job"
3. calling Thailands products "unhealthy" and "poison" - is a lie and close to a libel case
4. burning is a regional issue - where I live not many do it, we certainly have no air issues
5. the farming population actually has a quite happy life, you think they are poor because they work in old rags? What would you wear? A suit?

Don't forget: Thailand is the biggest rice exporter of the world. And their first class quality rice is exported into countries like Germany or France. But obviously that are not first world countries ... and the rice in the supermarkets is full of poison (and were would that come from?)

What bar stool are you propping up,? Thailand is now about number 3 in the world for rice exporting Vietnam and India are 1 and 2 .

Nearly all farmers are farmers only and do not have "real jobs" a lot will take on another job in the off season ,to do what we would do ,pay the bills and live .20 years ago the saying was Bangkok was built by Issan rice farmers ,working in town  during the off season ,then back home to the rice fields when the rains come ,how many times have you come across a Issan taxi drivers in Bangkok doing the same thing .  

A lot of  farmers are are not poor ,but a lot are ,and the biggest problem with most of them  is they debt burden especially with Tor-Kor-Sor, BAAC, the farmers bank 6 figure loans are common ,often some government scheme,encouraging farmers to borrow money ,then the price drops and the farmer has to carry that burden ,a farmers life is not a happy one . 

[mike787]

As I said before...if thailand cared they would do something, but they DO NOT CARE.

[Enki]

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

Air Visual at the minute showing Sakhon Nakhon as 80 to 112.

 

Is 60 km far enough to get better air than that?

 

It is showing 18 different names under SN and possibly includes your area or at least I imagine closer to you than 60 km.

 

Have you taken a reading with a device? 

You'll probably be surprised.

I left two weeks ago. But according to my wife the air is fine. I have no devices to make air readings and I actually don't know what your numbers mean.

 

I live ~60km east of the city Sakon Nakhon, in Nakhon Phanom province, if that clarifies it.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Enki