Sugar cane farmer: Burning is necessary - Go ahead "jail us all!"

[justin case]

ah thai logic defence :  everybody does it

 

same as running a red light

 

 

why not impose fines on SUGAR CANE OWNERS or the government sponsoring with tax money, the growth of cane sugar, as it is the main cause of diabetes & possible also cancer 

[unamazedloso]

Hes a liar! A cane harvester can do the job and the left overs plowed right back.in the soil.

The problem is when the growth of the cane isnt good they chose to hand cut and pay pathetic poor locals because its cheaper than a harvester.

That said many new attatchments are available for all tractors that dont cost much at all but all local orbator places could organize a shared system but nobody cares.

This guy has 1000rai full of sugarcane. He aint poor! Thats fact!!

He is killing people, hes a polluter, send him to prison!! And all the rest of them for destroying the country, tourism, etc..

[Farangwithaplan]

30 minutes ago, thequietman said:

If it isn't all handed to them and done for them ........... they are just not interested. ????

Ignorance may be a trait with the farming type. But put it into perspective. They lack an education most of us took for granted. Their thinking is very insular. Grow rice, cane, whatever and harvest and try to make some money.

 

Giving a bunch of poorly educated farmers a bunch of new machinery and expecting them to be able to even plan a roster to share the machinery throughout the sub district or schedule regular maintenance of the equipment may be above them. Even having them intuitively understanding the needs of the maintenance might  be asking too much.

 

If Government and regular citizens expect farmers to do the right thing, it takes education. To not offer that support to farmers to educate them on the "how and the why and the when" of the process is a shortfall of government.

[ezzra]

Many good posts here and several good solutions...It will be interesting to see if the government will fold like a cheap lawn chair or they will be resolute and their conviction to save the climate and come up with workable solutions accepted by all...

[Farangwithaplan]

43 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

reported elsewhere that 10s of thousands die each year from PM2.5 related diseases.

 

he should be tried for genocide

 

 

Do you drive a vehicle or travel on public transport or use electricity in anyway? Have you consumed food that contained locally derived sugar? Then by the same rational, you are complicit in his crimes.

[Assurancetourix]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Good idea, fill the prisons, and let the ones who did less crime like smoking weed out of there instead.

Thai prisons are already packed;
almost 200,000 prisoners for a population of 68 million inhabitants; more than 80% of the Thai prisoners are there because of conveying and use of hard drugs;
they are almost irremediable, the first thing they do after leaving prison is to start again trafficking and consumption of these same drugs with often the key to many murders.

 

In France for an equivalent population there are only 70,000 prisoners.

 

The solution has been given several times on different posts in this forum and just above:
form cooperatives of suitable materials, mechanize the cutting so no need to burn the feet of the canes and also train maintenance staff for these materials And in the cooperatives we can add harvesters, devices to automatically plant rice, like this is done in Japan ..
So materials that will come out according to the needs of local farmers who will only have to pay the rental.
I see in my village farmers who have gone into debt up to their necks to buy these types of equipment that only work a few months a year; for rice it is even worse, the harvest generally lasts less than a month and for 11 months the harvester remains at rest.
The least expensive, the least sophisticated still costs the trifle of 1 million baht.

[Assurancetourix]

29 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Just use the right equipment.

 

 

As we say in the french army : " yakafaucon "

Used to criticize and make fun of people who offer unrealistic solutions to others and who remain vague on the means.

 

With what money will Thai farmers, who are mostly very poor, be able to afford machines worth several million baht?

[rvaviator]

36 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Just use the right equipment.

 

 

Do you know the cost ?

[pookiki]

Government leaders, whether they are in Florida or Thailand, have a responsibility to protect the health and welfare of their citizens. It is obvious that burning sugar cane is a big source or PM2.5 pollution.  There are only two realistic solutions - a green harvest or planting a different crop.  Both solutions could be implemented with a scheme to compensate/subsidize farmers during a transition period and then phase out the subsidies. In the case of huge agribusiness concerns such as exists in Florida, the solution is to ban burning outright. I firmly believe that these large business concerns have the wherewithal to implement new technology that will benefit both them and society at large.

[trainman34014]

1 hour ago, Bassosa said:

This individuals profit/money is more important than the general public and their health.

Think about that...

No different from any other Thai...Me First !

[ExpatOilWorker]

22 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Do you know the cost ?

About 10 million baht.

Could be interesting to make a cost-benefit comparison vs. manual harvesting. 

[Youlike]

All Thai and other customers should stop buying cane sugar....the sugar from beetles is far less polluting.

[joloit]

Never argue with a fool, he will pull you down to his level and beat you with his experience!! Pathetic killers!!

[GeorgeCross]

36 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

As we say in the french army : " yakafaucon "

Used to criticize and make fun of people who offer unrealistic solutions to others and who remain vague on the means.

 

With what money will Thai farmers, who are mostly very poor, be able to afford machines worth several million baht?

the OP has 1000 rai - he can afford to rent a harvester 

hell he can afford to buy a couple of them

 

[newcomer71]

1 hour ago, KevinCorr said:

Fire fighting like the rest of the world does with wild fires. Don't ask, just attack the fires aggressively. 

Exactly. And once the fire has been put off, show him the fat bill. As seen as to people like him, what does count is only the profit, hit him in the pocket. Next time he'll think twice.

[Assurancetourix]

9 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

the OP has 1000 rai - he can afford to rent a harvester 

hell he can afford to buy a couple of them

 

Him yes,

but tens and even hundreds of thousands of other farmers who own or worse who are only shareclots on farms which they are not owners, they can not.

[brfsa2]

One alternative to reduce PM2.5 in the long term that is not talked much about is to reduce using E85 fuel (85% Ethanol) and E20 (20% ethanol).
Ethanol comes mostly from Sugarcane and Cassava, and a lot of the burning recently is from sugar cane farmers burning the cheap way.

Sugarcane price dropped drastically in the past years and farmers, as usual, always want more profit, so they just burn the crops after extraction.

 

Sources:

http://sugar-asia.com/thai-gov-3-phases-measures-against-pm-2-5-caused-by-cane-burning/

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/getmedia/9fb8527f-3235-4b71-a9e0-f389252426b0/IO_Ethanol_2017_EN.aspx

[brommers]

And boycott the products of Mitr Pol and other sugar producers.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, rvaviator said:

Do you know the cost ?

Apparently the right price:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1135540-ban-of-sugar-cane-burning-enforced-this-year-really/?do=findComment&comment=14921624

[Ireland32]

2 hours ago, thequietman said:

If it isn't all handed to them and done for them ........... they are just not interested. ????

Laziness like I’ve never observed

[saengd]

The wife tells me there are now two prices for sugar cane offered by the government which includes a higher price where the cane has not been burned, seems like a good incentive to me. If that's true, what's this idiots problem!

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

The wife tells me there are now two prices for sugar cane offered by the government which includes a higher price where the cane has not been burned, seems like a good incentive to me. If that's true, what's this idiots problem!

The higher price is insufficient to offset labor costs so burning is still more profitable or at least no less profitable. 

[saengd]

6 minutes ago, GarryP said:

The higher price is insufficient to offset labor costs so burning is still more profitable or at least no less profitable. 

Thanks. But does the higher price really need to completely offset the entire cost of labor, at some point the moral and social value of not burning has a value.....for most people that is.

[Destiny1990]

What will happen to a tourist that keeps smoking sigarettes on a beach even after been warned by the police?

Well that should happen to him also.

Sugarcane farmers have money and big land what do we care about his profits? His hurting the health of so many !

[MikeN]

2 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

As we say in the french army : " yakafaucon "

Used to criticize and make fun of people who offer unrealistic solutions to others and who remain vague on the means.

 

With what money will Thai farmers, who are mostly very poor, be able to afford machines worth several million baht?

NEWSFLASH ! Rice and corn were once only harvested by hand too, but most is done by "expensive" machines nowadays. This guy with 1000 rai of cane would be able to afford his own, other farmers could hire a machine and operator to harvest their crop just as my wife's family bring in a contractor for their rice crop.

[saengd]

1 minute ago, MikeN said:

NEWSFLASH ! Rice and corn were once only harvested by hand too, but most is done by "expensive" machines nowadays. This guy with 1000 rai of cane would be able to afford his own, other farmers could hire a machine and operator to harvest their crop just as my wife's family bring in a contractor for their rice crop.

No, contractor cost money,

 

Labour cost money,

 

Unleaded not expensive,

 

Can burn garbage too and promote mushrooms.

[GarryP]

49 minutes ago, saengd said:

Thanks. But does the higher price really need to completely offset the entire cost of labor, at some point the moral and social value of not burning has a value.....for most people that is.

You would have thought so, wouldn't you? Many of these farmers have children or grandchildren living close by and they are clearly damaging their health. So it is not as if their families are not impacted by the burning. I think it boils down to education and awareness. Many have been involved in agricultural burning (burning of stubble) since they were kids when their parents ran the farm. They were not aware then and not aware now how damaging the smoke is. There needs to be a massive education program in an attempt to make them aware of the damage they are causing.

 

However, farmers need to be given alternatives. Local cooperatives, district offices, etc. should invest in harvesting machinery (subsidies provided on the purchase by private cooperatives) which is then made available to local farmers for a price which is lower than the price of manual labor, schedules drawn up for use of the machines, etc. Also, they need to look into bringing more industry to the provinces so that those manual laborers will have employment once their labor is no longer needed on the farms.

 

Also the sugarcane processing plants need to be banned from processing burnt cane, with extremely heavy fines and closure for repeat offenders. 

 

On top of that Thailand needs to enter discussions with its neighbours and Thai sugarcane processing companies in those countries, so that action is also taken across the border.        

 

There is no single solution and it is really too late to fix the air this year.  But there is no reason why they can't start taking steps so that the situation is under control by next harvest season. 

[ramrod711]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

You just can't help stupid can you.....off to jail for a long time, set an example, that might help the other stupids ?

I wonder if Bamphen has any family members with respiratory problems? The children accompany their parents and breathe this junk into their lungs, but hey, that's life.

[30la]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

 

An angry sugar cane farmer in the east of Thailand has hit out at being singled out and blamed for the 2.5 PM smog crisis. 

Angry about what? The truth is that you are unscrupulous criminals, for a handful of Baht you are ready to kill your families, all your neighbors and many other people, and you don't understand that you are also committing suicide!
Ask me? Yes! I would throw you all together in jail in the company of the managers of the sugar factories!
Now the general can show his leadership skills!

[rwill]

All the sugar cane fields I see in Ratchaburi they harvest mechanically without burning.  But once the fields are harvested they burn them.  Just north in Kanchanaburi I see the trucks there hauling cane that has been burnt.