Democrats use words of Trump allies against him in impeachment trial

[webfact]

Democrats use words of Trump allies against him in impeachment trial

By David Morgan, Richard Cowan and Patricia Zengerle

 

Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) speaks to the media as the impeachment trial of U.S. President Donald Trump continues in Washington, U.S., January 23, 2020. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats on Thursday pressed their case at U.S. President Donald Trump's Senate trial for removing him from office by using the words of his own allies against him to make the point that his actions constituted impeachment offences, but his fellow Republicans showed no signs of turning against him.

 

The Democratic House of Representatives lawmakers serving as prosecutors in the trial presented the second of their three days of opening arguments as they appealed to senators to convict him on two charges - abuse of power and obstruction of Congress - passed by the House last month.

 

The U.S. Constitution sets out the impeachment process for removing a president who commits "high crimes and misdemeanors." Trump's legal team has argued that the House charges were invalid because impeachable offences must represent a specific violation of criminal law.

 

The charges against Trump arise from his request last year that Ukraine investigate Democratic rival Joe Biden and the president's actions to impede a House inquiry into the matter.

 

"Impeachment is not a punishment for crimes," Democratic Representative Jerrold Nadler told the assembled senators. "Impeachment exists to address threats to the political system, applies only to political officials and responds not by imprisonment or fines but only by stripping political power."

 

Nadler played a video clip of one of Trump's most prominent defenders, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, arguing during the 1999 impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton that presidents could be impeached even if the conduct in question was not a statutory criminal violation. Graham was absent from the Senate chamber when the clip was played.

 

Nadler also played a 1998 video clip of Alan Dershowitz, a member of Trump's legal team, recognising abuse of power as impeachable, and cited a memo written by Attorney General William Barr, a Trump appointee, that made the same point.

 

Trump's legal team has stated that abuse of power is a "made-up theory" for an impeachable offence "that would permanently weaken the presidency by effectively permitting impeachments based merely on policy disagreements."

 

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, a day after Democrats made their opening case for the removal of President Donald Trump from office said, "I don't think Joe Biden's corrupt, but I don't think he's beyond being looked at."

 

Dershowitz said in the clip that abuse of power "certainly doesn't have to be a crime. If you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of the president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty, you don't need a technical crime."

 

Nadler said the Constitution is not "a suicide pact," adding, "It does not leave us stuck with presidents who abuse their power in unforeseen ways that threaten our security and democracy."

 

Trump is almost certain to be acquitted by the 100-member Senate, which has 53 Republican members. A two-thirds majority is needed to remove him from office.

 

The case focuses on Trump's request that Ukraine investigate Biden, a top contender for the Democratic nomination to face Trump in the Nov. 3 presidential election, and Biden's son Hunter on unsubstantiated corruption allegations. Hunter Biden had served on the board of Ukrainian energy company Burisma.

 

Trump also asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to investigate a discredited theory beneficial to Russia that Ukraine worked with Democrats to hurt Trump in the 2016 U.S. election. Last year, Trump temporarily withheld $391 million in U.S. military aid to Ukraine, which Democrats say was leverage for his demands.

 

Trump denies wrongdoing.

 

'COMPLETELY BOGUS'

Democratic Representative Sylvia Garcia, addressing the Senate after Nadler, made a presentation portraying corruption allegations against Biden as groundless. Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow said Garcia's presentation opened the door for members of the president's legal team to address Biden's conduct when they make their case to the Senate.

 

The Democrats also took aim at what Representative Adam Schiff told the Senate was the "completely bogus, Kremlin-pushed conspiracy theory" promoted by Trump and his allies alleging Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 election. Garcia and Schiff called it Russian propaganda.

 

U.S. intelligence agencies and former Special Counsel Robert Mueller concluded that Russia used a campaign of hacking and social media propaganda to interfere in the election to sow discord in the United States and boost Trump's candidacy and harm his Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton.

 

The Democrats displayed a November quote from Russian President Vladimir Putin saying, "Thank God nobody is accusing us anymore of interfering in the U.S. elections. Now they're accusing Ukraine."

 

While it remains a long shot for Democrats to secure Trump's removal through impeachment, the trial presents gives them a venue to inflict political damage on him ahead of the November election, with millions of Americans watching the televised proceedings.

 

Trump condemned the proceedings as "unfair & corrupt" in a Twitter post on Thursday.

 

Before Thursday's arguments began, some Republican senators said they had heard nothing new in the presentation made by the Democratic managers and already have decided to vote for acquittal.

 

"I'll say we shouldn't be in an impeachment trial," Republican Senator Ron Johnson said.

 

Republican Senator Thom Tillis said he has already made up his mind to vote for acquittal. Referring to the Democrats' presentation, Tillis told reporters, "It reminds of the shopping channel, the hits of the '80s, you hear it again and again and again and again. I can almost recite the testimony."

 

Republican Senator James Lankford added, "It's a more organized presentation of the same facts."

 

Republican Senator Mike Braun said he will vote for acquittal if nothing new emerges on Thursday or Friday.

 

Other Republicans were more circumspect. Republican Senator Mitt Romney said, "Sorry, but I'm not going to be commenting on the evidence or process until the entire trial is over."

 

This is only the third impeachment trial in U.S. history. It began in earnest on Tuesday and Democrats started their opening arguments on Wednesday. The Senate's schedule means that Trump's defence team would likely start to present their case on Saturday.

 

(Reporting by Patricia Zengerle, Karen Freifeld, Susan Cornwell, Steve Holland, David Morgan, Lisa Lambert, Richard Cowan, Doina Chiacu; Writing by Will Dunham; Editing by Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-01-24

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[Puchaiyank]

The impeachment fiasco has largely accomplished the unspoken desires of the Democratic party.  Create a nasty diversion to draw attention away from the multitude of positive accomplishments of the Trump administration...at the direction of President Trump.  Secondly, impeachment...with its negative connotation...will cause some moderate Republicans and Independents to withhold their vote until the impeachment circus is completed.

 

The vote of these undecided voters is in the balance...thus the Democratic strategy of  uncooperation...denigration...and impeachment of Donald Trump...net effectiveness will be decided at the ballot box in Nov...

 

As did HRC...amazingly the Bidens walk away unscathed after having used their name and government position to pad their bank accounts...it's all good!

[Tug]

Hoisting the republicans by their own pitard lol this mess is of Donald’s own creation as are most of his problems you know like russa are you listening?or who could forget the helinsky fiasco just to scratch the surface no sir trump has brought the majority of this on himsielf and as to the issue being addressed now he is guilty as sin

[DoctorG]

At least one "impartial jurer" (Sen Dianne F) left early. Imagine you are on a jury and you suddenly decided you had better things to do and just up and left.

[neeray]

Even though a certain member on this forum suggests I have no right to comment as I am not American, this highly-biased Republican circus prompts my further comment.

 

If the events that prompted this impeachment trial were flipped 180 degrees and it was a Democratic President who attempted to blackmail the Ukraine, Republicans would be the ones screaming for impeachment. All the same arguments would prevail, only the names would change.

[Paul Henry]

What about the 40% of republicans that were not in the hearing while the democrats outlined their case. Two democrats where out on comfort breaks.In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.Look at the facts,no more republicans lies and misrepresentations even if you feel following the example of Potus is good for the country.

[BobBKK]

9 minutes ago, neeray said:

Even though a certain member on this forum suggests I have no right to comment as I am not American, this highly-biased Republican circus prompts my further comment.

 

If the events that prompted this impeachment trial were flipped 180 degrees and it was a Democratic President who attempted to blackmail the Ukraine, Republicans would be the ones screaming for impeachment. All the same arguments would prevail, only the names would change.

Nonsense post, Biden did exactly that - and succeeded AND boasted about it on TV.  I'd do some research if I were you.

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

At least one "impartial jurer" (Sen Dianne F) left early. Imagine you are on a jury and you suddenly decided you had better things to do and just up and left.

At least one?

 

At least 21 GOP Senators not absenting themselves.

 

https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/21-empty-seats-more-than-one-third-of-gop-senators-reportedly-left-room-during-schiffs-speech/

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Nonsense post, Biden did exactly that - and succeeded AND boasted about it on TV.  I'd do some research if I were you.

But but but Biden.

 

[edit].

 

Biden, FYI, has not been impeached.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[BobBKK]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

But but but Biden.

 

Biden, FYI, is not being impeached.

Very true but you get the hypocrisy point

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Very true but you get the hypocrisy point

No I do not.

 

The allegations of Biden’s crimes have been investigated and proven to be hogwash.

[BobBKK]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I do not.

 

The allegations of Biden’s crimes have been investigated and proven to be hogwash.

Investigated by whom?  you're saying Biden did not force the sacking of the prosecutor?  Biden's son was on the board coincidentally?  spoke Russian?  had experience of value to Burisma?  wow just wow

[neeray]

16 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Nonsense post, Biden did exactly that - and succeeded AND boasted about it on TV.  I'd do some research if I were you.

No research required thank you sir. I am right on top of the events with clear vision.

[Skallywag]

2 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

The vote of these undecided voters is in the balance...thus the Democratic strategy of  uncooperation...denigration...and impeachment of Donald Trump...net effectiveness will be decided at the ballot box in Nov...

 

As did HRC...amazingly the Bidens walk away unscathed after having used their name and government position to pad their bank accounts...it's all good!

 The GOP may be more corrupt than the Dems, voters just have to decide between the lesser of 2 evils

The executive and legislative branches of the U.S. government are a plutarchy now, not a democracy. 

[Berkshire]

7 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I do not.

 

The allegations of Biden’s crimes have been investigated and proven to be hogwash.

Investigated by whom?  you're saying Biden did not force the sacking of the prosecutor?  Biden's son was on the board coincidentally?  spoke Russian?  had experience of value to Burisma?  wow just wow

Do you work for Trump?  Because you lie just like he does.  This has come up in the impeachment trial.  Biden wanted the prosecutor to investigate Burisma and other corrupt entities but the prosecutor refused.  By getting rid of the corrupt prosecutor, it made it MORE likely that Burisma would be investigated.  I'm sure you understand, yet, you keep repeating the lie.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Do you work for Trump?  Because you lie just like he does.  This has come up in the impeachment trial.  Biden wanted the prosecutor to investigate Burisma and other corrupt entities but the prosecutor refused.  By getting rid of the corrupt prosecutor, it made it MORE likely that Burisma would be investigated.  I'm sure you understand, yet, you keep repeating the lie.

Accusing TVF members of lying is against rules - please be respectful. There will be continued and new investigations about this matter, in fact one was announced yesterday. I simply do not believe the spin you have placed on the Biden piece and I await the conclusion of further investigations into the Biden's whitewash. 

[Berkshire]

9 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Accusing TVF members of lying is against rules - please be respectful. There will be continued and new investigations about this matter, in fact one was announced yesterday. I simply do not believe the spin you have placed on the Biden piece and I await the conclusion of further investigations into the Biden's whitewash. 

Trump supporters accuse everyone else of lying all the time.  So please, spare me the self righteous indignation.  If this conspiracy theory had any legitimacy, the DOJ would have investigated long ago. 

[BobBKK]

10 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Trump supporters accuse everyone else of lying all the time.  So please, spare me the self righteous indignation.  If this conspiracy theory had any legitimacy, the DOJ would have investigated long ago. 

I don't and if you can't debate without insults then keep quiet. Article 2, Section 3 of the US Constitution applies.

It is not a 'conspiracy theory' Biden forced them to fire the prosecutor in return for MONEY. Be polite thank you.

[Ricohoc]

11 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

. . .
If this conspiracy theory had any legitimacy, the DOJ would have investigated long ago. 

Obama's DOJ was not going to investigate Biden in Ukraine.  Today, it's why Democrats falsely claim that the Biden/Ukraine investigation has already occurred and any corruption has been debunked. 

 

Things are underway.  Stay tuned.  ???? 

[Berkshire]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

I don't and if you can't debate without insults then keep quiet. Article 2, Section 3 of the US Constitution applies.

It is not a 'conspiracy theory' Biden forced them to fire the prosecutor in return for MONEY. Be polite thank you.

You're repeating outright lies again.  Would you prefer I call them untruths? 

[Scott]

Troll post and reply removed.  

 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

It is not a 'conspiracy theory' Biden forced them to fire the prosecutor in return for MONEY. Be polite thank you.

Never knew Biden has such power to fire a foreign country prosecutor. That will be an impeachable act. 

[charmonman]

4 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

The impeachment fiasco has largely accomplished the unspoken desires of the Democratic party.  Create a nasty diversion to draw attention away from the multitude of positive accomplishments of the Trump administration...at the direction of President Trump.  Secondly, impeachment...with its negative connotation...will cause some moderate Republicans and Independents to withhold their vote until the impeachment circus is completed.

 

The vote of these undecided voters is in the balance...thus the Democratic strategy of  uncooperation...denigration...and impeachment of Donald Trump...net effectiveness will be decided at the ballot box in Nov...

 

As did HRC...amazingly the Bidens walk away unscathed after having used their name and government position to pad their bank accounts...it's all good!

I assume you are an American citizen? You must be, only an American could be so ignorant about what has happened in his own country. If and when the Republicans acquit, I hope you'll be happy as a citizen of a banana republic.

[Skallywag]

1 minute ago, charmonman said:

I assume you are an American citizen? You must be, only an American could be so ignorant about what has happened in his own country. If and when the Republicans acquit, I hope you'll be happy as a citizen of a banana republic.

Am not the OP you quoted, but am an American citizen.  Why I moved here to LOS, perfect support from all gov. agencies here as well as from all public servants on duty every day to protect and serve. 

Living the dream, truly (just don't tell other Americans as we don't need anymore) 

[charmonman]

3 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Am not the OP you quoted, but am an American citizen.  Why I moved here to LOS, perfect support from all gov. agencies here as well as from all public servants on duty every day to protect and serve. 

Living the dream, truly (just don't tell other Americans as we don't need anymore) 

To be clear, I don't think ALL Americans are completely ignorant about what their own government is up to, but many are completely ignorant and believe all manner of conspiracy theories.

I like your avatar, a great Canadian musician!

[charmonman]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

I don't and if you can't debate without insults then keep quiet. Article 2, Section 3 of the US Constitution applies.

It is not a 'conspiracy theory' Biden forced them to fire the prosecutor in return for MONEY. Be polite thank you.

It IS a conspiracy theory that Biden forced them to fire the prosecutor to cover up wrongdoing by his son. Do some research.

 

By the way Article 2, section 3 of the US constitution say the President  "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed". The G.A.O has concluded that the Trump administration broke the law in withholding the Ukraine aid.

 

So your point is?

[bendejo]

13 minutes ago, charmonman said:

To be clear, I don't think ALL Americans are completely ignorant about what their own government is up to, but many are completely ignorant and believe all manner of conspiracy theories.

I think DT's popularity says something about the education system in the US.

And it's not good.

 

 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Investigated by whom?  you're saying Biden did not force the sacking of the prosecutor?  Biden's son was on the board coincidentally?  spoke Russian?  had experience of value to Burisma?  wow just wow

what does Biden, John Doe, John Who's or John None, etc., etc.,  have to do with POTUS impeachment, if you want to go after one of them first get them elected then you can impeach, investigate, prosecute or what ever you want to do

[bendejo]

pssst!  I'm putting this up in a smaller font because it's a secret for you GOP types, so don't tell anybody, ok?

The Dems don't give a rat's tail about Joe Biden!  If he's called upon to testify, well, he'd be expected to do the right thing.  In fact they already suspect him and junior will be part of a quid pro quo (!) should they be allowed to call witnesses. 

This thing you guys go on about the party machinery working to protect him is up there next to your fear that Michelle Obama will run for president. 

Anyway, that's not what this is about, it's about your guy trying to rig the election because he's afraid of being a LOSER.

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by bendejo

[yardrunner]

4 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Create a nasty diversion to draw attention away from the multitude of positive accomplishments of the Trump administration...

what accomplishments, moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. pulling out of the Iran deal and pulling out of the climate change accord, things that increase the chance of conflict in the middle east an do nothing to prevent damage to the planet

Trump is like a spoiled Brat who throws a tantrum whenever he doesn't get his own way