U.S. Justice Dept says it should not have continued spying on former Trump adviser

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Chiphigh said:

What result is that? 

Read the OP. 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Trump must be guilty - of any accusation. 

 

Democrats and other left wing liberal political groups must be innocent and no one should even dare accuse them.

 

Those investigating Trump and other center or right political groups must be allowed to break any laws, suppress or invent facts as they wish, and ignore their own rules. They must never ever be allowed to investigate the left liberals of course. Because the latter are always totally innocent anyway.

 

The simple world of Chomper Higgot!

Calm down, the FBI didn’t break any laws.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

Trump? Wrong branch.

 

Webfact:

"The Court understands the government to have concluded, in view of the material misstatements and omissions, that the Court's authorisations ... were not valid," Boasberg wrote.

 

The Justice Department has not concluded whether its prior surveillance of Page was justified, he wrote in an opinion dated Jan. 7.

 

This is about Judge Boasberg, the judicial branch.

 

Clearer explanation from WSJ:

The Justice Department letter is classified, but is referenced in a new order declassified by the judge that heads the FISA court, James Boasberg, on Thursday.

 

Judge Boasberg ordered the government to explain further the specific steps it intended to take in response to its belief that some of the surveillance collected against Mr. Page lacked a legal basis. The order was issued Jan. 7, but wasn’t declassified until Thursday.

 

More to come, End game soon.

 

 

No laws broken.

 

 

[rabas]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No laws broken.

I have asked the Gods to give me powers to see all things that may be revealed in the future.

 

But so far   Pffft.

[riclag]

Should of stopped !! Ya think!

Mr. Carter Page should be one of the distinguish  guests  sitting in the balcony during the POTUS State of the Union address!

 

Let the whole world see him while the POTUS admonishes the intel agencies for setting him up !

[heybruce]

20 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

So now the legitimate questions can finally be asked without being shrugged off as conspiracy theory:  If the FBI knew that there was no Russian collusion within the Trump campaign so early on why did they continue to renew the FISA applications?  For what purpose exactly and to what end?  And why, then, did they even initiate the Mueller probe?

 

Where do you get the idea the FBI knew there was no Russian collusion?  That is not stated in the article.

[heybruce]

18 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 FBI Director James Comey and his deputy, Andrew McCabe set him up. It will all come out eventually. 

To quote Tippaporn, "And what evidence do you have?"

[heybruce]

18 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The DoJ’s own investigation found the FBI acted legally.

 

You're conveniently leaving out a lot of facts which show otherwise.  Either you're aware of those facts and wish to leave them out in order to purposely paint a false picture or you haven't done your homework.

 

All we have now is Trump’s hand picked AG making a statement for the benefit of Trump and his base.

 

No proof whatsoever to that claim.  It's strictly how you assemble selective facts.

 

Here’s a fact, Carter Page was as an unregistered agent of a foreign power.

 

BS.  Carter Page was a CIA asset.  In 2017, the CIA sent an email to the FBI restating that Page had been an asset.  FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith criminally altered the email to reverse the confirmation.  But this is such old news that there is no plausible way for you to not be aware of it.  So why did you not mention it?  Trying to paint a false narrative?

 

FBI deliberately hid Carter Page's patriotic role as CIA asset, IG report shows

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/11/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-attorney-hid-carter-page-cia-/

 

Here’s another fact, the WH were informed of the fact Carter Page was a security risk and did nothing about it.

 

See above.  Carter Page was a CIA asset.

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that all these facts were reviewed by the DOJ watchdog and it determined that the Russia investigation was justified.   https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doj-watchdog-finding-origins-fbis-russia-investigation-proper/story?id=67605235https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

Should of stopped !! Ya think!

Mr. Carter Page should be one of the distinguish  guests  sitting in the balcony during the POTUS State of the Union address!

 

Let the whole world see him while the POTUS admonishes the intel agencies for setting him up !

Carter Page set Carter Page up.  Hardly distinguished:

 

" Page became increasingly critical of United States foreign policy toward Russia, and more supportive of Putin, with a United States official describing Page as "a brazen apologist for anything Moscow did".^[4] Page is frequently quoted by Russian state television, where he is presented as a "famous American economist".^[3] "  

 

"Also in 2013, Evgeny Buryakov and two other Russians attempted to recruit Page as an intelligence source, and one of them, Victor Podobnyy, described Page as enthusiastic about business opportunities in Russia but an "idiot".^{[2][24]  "    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page}

[Ricohoc]

Remember the name Kevin Clinesmith, the FBI attorney accused to altering an email that verified that Carter Page was a source for another government agency.

 

Clinesmith received an email from another agency's liaison that verified Page's source status.  Clinesmith altered the email by inserting 'not a source'.  This made it appear that the other agency did NOT confirm Page's source status for another agency.  This was uncovered and reported by Horowitz.  Carter Page's relationship with government agencies was important because it was necessary to ensure that Page had no reason to be in contact with any suspicious individuals from other countries.  This justifiable contact by Page would have cast doubt upon the accusations made in the FISA warrant.

 

From the Horowitz report:

"Relying upon this altered email, [Clinesmith] signed the third renewal application that again failed to disclose Page's past relationship with the other agency."

 

Both Barr and Wray were informed by Horowitz of Clinesmith's actions.  After Horowitz confronted Clinesmith over his actions, Clinesmith left the FBI. Clinesmith is now one of many subjects of US Attorney John Durham's criminal inquiry. 

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fbi-lawyer-under-criminal-investigation-altered-document-to-say-carter-page-was-not-a-source-for-another-agency

 

Truth always wins.  The more that comes to light, the more it appears that the entire Trump-Russia investigation was initiated with bunk.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

Remember the name Kevin Clinesmith, the FBI attorney accused to altering an email that verified that Carter Page was a source for another government agency.

 

Clinesmith received an email from another agency's liaison that verified Page's source status.  Clinesmith altered the email by inserting 'not a source'.  This made it appear that the other agency did NOT confirm Page's source status for another agency.  This was uncovered and reported by Horowitz.  Carter Page's relationship with government agencies was important because it was necessary to ensure that Page had no reason to be in contact with any suspicious individuals from other countries.  This justifiable contact by Page would have cast doubt upon the accusations made in the FISA warrant.

 

From the Horowitz report:

"Relying upon this altered email, [Clinesmith] signed the third renewal application that again failed to disclose Page's past relationship with the other agency."

 

Both Barr and Wray were informed by Horowitz of Clinesmith's actions.  After Horowitz confronted Clinesmith over his actions, Clinesmith left the FBI. Clinesmith is now one of many subjects of US Attorney John Durham's criminal inquiry. 

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fbi-lawyer-under-criminal-investigation-altered-document-to-say-carter-page-was-not-a-source-for-another-agency

 

Truth always wins.  The more that comes to light, the more it appears that the entire Trump-Russia investigation was initiated with bunk.

From your source:

 

"During the drafting of FISA warrants in 2016 and 2017, the CIA confirmed to the FBI that Mr. Page, a Naval Academy graduate and energy investor who joined the Trump campaign as an adviser, served as an informant from 2008 to 2013."

 

"In 2017, the CIA sent an email to the FBI restating that Mr. Page had been an asset. Mr. Clinesmith, who is not named in the inspector general’s report, altered the email to say Mr. Page was not an asset." 

 

Page was not a asset at the time, so the alteration was factually correct. 

[Ricohoc]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

. . . 

 

Page was not a asset at the time, so the alteration was factually correct. 

 

Altering an email sent by another government agency.  Uh, I don't believe that's acceptable in any legal venue. That's probably why Horowitz brought it to the attention of Wray and Barr, and that's probably why Clinesmith ran away and is a subject of the investigation.  The end-justifies-the-means crowd would always bless Clinesmith's actions because it's about GET TRUMP. 

 

If Mr. Clinesmith wanted to contest the email, he could have provided an addendum to it and stated that at the present time, Carter Page was not serving as an asset.

 

Clinesmith purposely misrepresented the email by altering it.

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

Altering an email sent by another government agency.  Uh, I don't believe that's acceptable in any legal venue. That's probably why Horowitz brought it to the attention of Wray and Barr, and that's probably why Clinesmith ran away and is a subject of the investigation.  The end-justifies-the-means crowd would always bless Clinesmith's actions because it's about GET TRUMP. 

 

If Mr. Clinesmith wanted to contest the email, he could have provided an addendum to it and stated that at the present time, Carter Page was not serving as an asset.

 

Clinesmith purposely misrepresented the email by altering it.

I did not post that the alteration was acceptable.  However I think it is pertinent to this discussion that Page was not an asset at the time of the FISA warrant application.  The information in the application was factually correct, though arguably incomplete.

Edited January 25, 2020 by heybruce

[Chiphigh]

45 minutes ago, heybruce said:

From your source:

 

"During the drafting of FISA warrants in 2016 and 2017, the CIA confirmed to the FBI that Mr. Page, a Naval Academy graduate and energy investor who joined the Trump campaign as an adviser, served as an informant from 2008 to 2013."

 

"In 2017, the CIA sent an email to the FBI restating that Mr. Page had been an asset. Mr. Clinesmith, who is not named in the inspector general’s report, altered the email to say Mr. Page was not an asset." 

 

Page was not a asset at the time, so the alteration was factually correct. 

You will twist anything to make this investigation legitimate. 

 

It is a sad and desperate situation for the left. 

[Chiphigh]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that all these facts were reviewed by the DOJ watchdog and it determined that the Russia investigation was justified.   https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doj-watchdog-finding-origins-fbis-russia-investigation-proper/story?id=67605235https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page

Do actually think the doj would admit to tell you that the investigation they helped with was not justified and was just a partisan attempt to influence an election? 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Chiphigh said:

You will twist anything to make this investigation legitimate. 

 

It is a sad and desperate situation for the left. 

Nothing twisted there.  In fact I clarified the timelines.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Chiphigh said:

Do actually think the doj would admit to tell you that the investigation they helped with was not justified and was just a partisan attempt to influence an election? 

Under William "Cover-up General" Barr, yes, I believe that if it were at all possible he would have had the DOJ discredit the investigation.

[Thomas J]

On 1/24/2020 at 7:07 AM, Tug said:

Looks to me like bill Barr is giving trump cover trump is what he is he will and does use any means he can to get what he wants leagle or not morality means nothing to him 

Tug, The meme for you should be no matter how convincing the facts are, never let them interfere were your pre-conceived bias.  Baar was not even in office when Comey went to the FISA court and attested to all of the information to receive the surveillance warrants being true.  Comey and the FBI knew the dossier was paid for by the DNC and Hillary Clinton yet deliberately withheld that from the court.  The FBI had already fired the author of the dossier Christopher Steele for misconduct.  The FBI went so far to build a case against Trump they sent a sexy blond agent to meet with Trump aid George Papadopoulous.  

 

https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/fbi-sent-a-blonde-bombshell-to-meet-trump-aide-papadopoulos-report/
 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by metisdead
Trolling image removed.

[riclag]

17 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Calm down, the FBI didn’t break any laws.

Some of the FBI elite are under criminal investigation ! The IG has recommended that nobody who investigated the Fisa  hoax investigation(after opening) has clean hands and shouldn't feel exonerated !

 Also the world has found out that the key element to the fisa was the Steele hoax  dossier which the IG has debunked and completely leaves the  MSM  spin-less.

Stay tuned the IG was very limited in scope ,in come's Durham with powers unlimited. Thank god

Edited January 25, 2020 by riclag

[heybruce]

20 minutes ago, riclag said:

Some of the FBI elite are under criminal investigation ! The IG has recommended that nobody who investigated the Fisa  hoax investigation(after opening) has clean hands and shouldn't feel exonerated !

 Also the world has found out that the key element to the fisa was the Steele hoax  dossier which the IG has debunked and completely leaves the  MSM  spin-less.

Stay tuned the IG was very limited in scope ,in come Durham

If only you held Trump to the same standard of correctness that you hold the Steele dossier.

 

The Steele dossier was not debunked.  It was raw intelligence from Russia.  Some was correct, some was discredited, and much is still uncertain.  Steele himself made it clear that raw intelligence from Russia was rarely 100% correct.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-accurate

 

The Steele dossier was an element in the FISA application.  On what do you base your claim that it was "the key element"?

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Tug, The meme for you should be no matter how convincing the facts are, never let them interfere were your pre-conceived bias.  Baar was not even in office when Comey went to the FISA court and attested to all of the information to receive the surveillance warrants being true.  Comey and the FBI knew the dossier was paid for by the DNC and Hillary Clinton yet deliberately withheld that from the court.  The FBI had already fired the author of the dossier Christopher Steele for misconduct.  The FBI went so far to build a case against Trump they sent a sexy blond agent to meet with Trump aid George Papadopoulous.  

 

https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/fbi-sent-a-blonde-bombshell-to-meet-trump-aide-papadopoulos-report/
 

 

A New York Post article that quoted a book written by Papadopoulous to clear his name.  Is that your idea of a credible source?

 

Also, the FISA application did note that the dossier was paid for by a political entity.  I have found no credible source stating why the FBI terminated its relationship with Steele, can you support your claim that it was for misconduct?

[Chiphigh]

54 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If only you held Trump to the same standard of correctness that you hold the Steele dossier.

 

The Steele dossier was not debunked.  It was raw intelligence from Russia.  Some was correct, some was discredited, and much is still uncertain.  Steele himself made it clear that raw intelligence from Russia was rarely 100% correct.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-accurate

 

The Steele dossier was an element in the FISA application.  On what do you base your claim that it was "the key element"?

The Steele dossier was not a valid source of information in any way. 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

If only you held Trump to the same standard of correctness that you hold the Steele dossier.

 

The Steele dossier was not debunked.  It was raw intelligence from Russia.  Some was correct, some was discredited, and much is still uncertain.  Steele himself made it clear that raw intelligence from Russia was rarely 100% correct.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-accurate

 

The Steele dossier was an element in the FISA application.  On what do you base your claim that it was "the key element"?

 Nonsense, none was correct in as far as it related to POTUS ,it cleared him, Steele , was reported to be unreliable and subjected to exaggeration  as opposed to pre IG report that the  corrupt top officials at the FBI held him in high regard and was the key talking point for Trump haters .I'm  not playing your silly  word games on what bases  ! Suffice   to say it was the essential part!

 

Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz found that the Steele dossier was “essential” for the FBI to obtain wiretaps on Trump campaign volunteer Carter Page under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/16/christopher-steele-trump-dossier-author-rebuts-ig-/

Edited January 25, 2020 by riclag

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

 

[candide]

On 1/25/2020 at 10:22 AM, riclag said:

 Nonsense, none was correct in as far as it related to POTUS ,it cleared him, Steele , was reported to be unreliable and subjected to exaggeration  as opposed to pre IG report that the  corrupt top officials at the FBI held him in high regard and was the key talking point for Trump haters .I'm  not playing your silly  word games on what bases  ! Suffice   to say it was the essential part!

 

Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz found that the Steele dossier was “essential” for the FBI to obtain wiretaps on Trump campaign volunteer Carter Page under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/16/christopher-steele-trump-dossier-author-rebuts-ig-/

“We started the investigations without the dossier. We were proceeding with the investigations before we ever received that information,” McCabe told CNN. “Was the dossier material important to the [FISA] package? Of course, it was. As was every fact included in that package. Was it the majority of what was in the package? Absolutely not.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/dossier-not-what-started-all-of-this/

Additionally, It's not true that "none was correct". A significant part of it has been corroborated.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective

 

[Chiphigh]

1 hour ago, candide said:

“We started the investigations without the dossier. We were proceeding with the investigations before we ever received that information,” McCabe told CNN. “Was the dossier material important to the [FISA] package? Of course, it was. As was every fact included in that package. Was it the majority of what was in the package? Absolutely not.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/dossier-not-what-started-all-of-this/

Additionally, It's not true that "none was correct". A significant part of it has been corroborated.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective

 

The dossier is a fabricated mess of Innuendo and rumors. It has not been corroborated or proven factual 

[riclag]

40 minutes ago, Chiphigh said:

The dossier is a fabricated mess of Innuendo and rumors. It has not been corroborated or proven factual 

Horowitz was seen by the Senate Comm also. it was found there that Steele's own government claimed he was unreliable and prone to exaggerate,but the corrupt officials at the FBI refused  to acknowledge his bias and second hand hearsay.

It was reported that a US agency  interviewed him and sent out red flags that he was  political bias ,hated Trump ,didn't want him elected and was trying to peddle this hoax report to meet a  deadline.

 

 Dossier fabricated

"It isn’t merely a matter of Steele’s handling agent not corroborating the FISA source classification. The agents working Crossfire Hurricane also did not document in Steele’s Delta file many details relevant to his credibility, reliability, and bias. We know from the IG’s previous CHS audit that this isn’t just sloppiness—it is an institutional penchant for prettying up a CHS’s profile by omitting negative information from the source’s file".

https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/09/ig-report-documents-how-the-fbi-hid-negative-information-about-christopher-steele/

 

 January 2020"An explosive dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claimed the Kremlin had compromising footage of the American president. For three years the aftershocks have been felt from Whitehall to the White House. Now a British intelligence expert has concluded it was ‘fabricated’"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-russia-dossier-sex-spies-and-videotape-dtmzdg25q

 

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by riclag

[riclag]

2 hours ago, candide said:

“We started the investigations without the dossier. We were proceeding with the investigations before we ever received that information,” McCabe told CNN. “Was the dossier material important to the [FISA] package? Of course, it was. As was every fact included in that package. Was it the majority of what was in the package? Absolutely not.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/dossier-not-what-started-all-of-this/

Additionally, It's not true that "none was correct". A significant part of it has been corroborated.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective

 

Your going to go to a March 2019 source  and use McCabe  that was fired from the FBI for not being candid (lying) with Congress! 

Then you use a 2018  outdated lawfare source !

The dossier has been debunked, the author is reported to be unreliable and  exaggerated second hand info and rumors from Russian sources!

 

Give  up, the IG exposed the FBI and Steele through what little his scope would allow him,now comes Durham 

"Much was omitted. Among other things, the IG slammed the FBI’s Validation Management Unit for excluding in its validation report its conclusion that it had failed to “identify any corroboration for Steele’s election reporting among the information that the Crossfire Hurricane team had collected.”

 

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/09/ig-report-documents-how-the-fbi-hid-negative-information-about-christopher-steele/

Edited January 26, 2020 by riclag

[candide]

1 hour ago, Chiphigh said:

The dossier is a fabricated mess of Innuendo and rumors. It has not been corroborated or proven factual 

Sorry but I trust more Lawfare.com analysis than your opinion.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lawfare-blog/

With which part of the article do you disagree?

[candide]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Your going to go to a March 2019 source  and use McCabe  that was fired from the FBI for not being candid (lying) with Congress! 

Then you use a 2018  outdated lawfare source !

The dossier has been debunked, the author is reported to be unreliable and  exaggerated second hand info and rumors from Russian sources!

 

Give  up, the IG exposed the FBI and Steele through what little his scope would allow him,now comes Durham 

"Much was omitted. Among other things, the IG slammed the FBI’s Validation Management Unit for excluding in its validation report its conclusion that it had failed to “identify any corroboration for Steele’s election reporting among the information that the Crossfire Hurricane team had collected.”

 

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/09/ig-report-documents-how-the-fbi-hid-negative-information-about-christopher-steele/

And of course you cite the federalist, lol!

How are these articles outmoded? What is innacurate according to you?