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'No, No America': Thousands of Iraqis rally against U.S. military presence


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10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Trump is so beholden to Israel, he would literally put the entire national security of the US at stake to protect them and to defend their extremist policies. 

A grossly unfair, unsubstantiated statement made in reply to someone who was making a fair point. The response is indicitive of someone who really has no understanding of the policy desires of Trump or the nationalist paleo conservatives that worked to put him in office. It is not easy for a President to push back against the Neoconservative/neoliberal 25 year consensus which includes the press, and bureucracy of the Intel, defense, and State department apparatus. Haven't noticed? Too busy following the herd?

Edited by WalkingOrders
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10 hours ago, heybruce said:

By that standard (using diplomatic, economic and/or military power to register objection) China is also an imperialist power, and North Korea a regional imperialist.  In fact it's difficult to think of a country that is not an imperialist.

"Extending ones power or influence using military force" North Korea?

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23 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 So the US decided they wanted democracy whether they wanted it or not?

They got the  choice and no theyre  gonna throw it away........for the second  time, wonder  how  half  the Iraqi  population of  women feel about their  choices in Iraq

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1 minute ago, giddyup said:

You don't seem to grasp the fact that the US  invaded Iraq without provocation and motives based on lies.

Maybe I dont care, Saddam had it  coming for a  longtime

Edited by Chazar
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3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't have a disdain for Americans per se, only Americas interference in other countries and their readiness to wage war unprovoked.

Likewise, I have no disdain for non-Americans per se, only those with zero grasp of international relations, the realism of Great power politics, and history, unless they are farmers.

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4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The US has been happy to prop up other dictatorships when it suited them, bloody hypocrites.

As  do  most other countries, its a <deleted>  unfair  world

Edited by Chazar
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1 hour ago, giddyup said:

 So the US decided they wanted democracy whether they wanted it or not?

I recall that the USA was freshly reeling from the horrible attacks of 9.11. This was a very fearful time in the United States. We had nearly 3000 dead, and were expecting more attacks. In this setting the Neoconservatives were able to capitalize. Even weak claims of Iraqi involvement, did not sit well. So what fell apart? The Neocons in the administration were able to override our own intelligence through manipulation. Even Colin Powell who made the case before the United Nations later said he was lied to. This presentation by Powell, a man trusted by most Americans pretty much sealed the deal for most Americans to get onboard. 

 

As for the fantasy of the Iraqi welcoming Americans with open arms, the creation of a thriving democracy etc. I dont think manyvAmericans ever bought that. And here we are decades later, and the idea is still pushed, and its still a bad idea.

 

The authorization for the Iraq war was bi-partisan, a refection of the neo-liberal/Neo-con policy consensus...but with the neocons leading the charge... fully capitalizing on the fear of the time. What if Bush was not President? I think that its difficult to think that an attack on Iraq would not have happened. The war may have been prosecuted differently, but it still would have happened. 

 

I think some fairness needs to be given to the Bush administration despite their obvious lies. That the same fear infecting the general population was affecting the Aministration is a reasonable assumption.

 

The 8 years of the Obama Clinton foreign policy apparatus resulted in nothing more then a extension of the Neolib/neocon apparatus with emphasis on regime change, while pushing a failed two state solution and pretending to be a neutral party with regard to Israel Palestine.

 

It is interesting to see that Trump, who calls for withdrawal of forces, a dropping of the phoney pretence of being a neutral party with regard to Israel, a retraction from Nato, de-escalation with Russia, and stronger stance regarding China, has met with absolute war from the policy appartaus of both parties (GOP neocon wing), and bureaucracy that wants to run policy.

 

You see how Trump has literally been forced to change, delay, or moderate positions. And who causes this the Neocons/neolibs who have created the evil orangeman fiction...which does what? Focuses hate on the man in Orwellian fashion, while hiding policy. 

Edited by WalkingOrders
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1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

I bet some here cry just as loud that the USA has a responsibility to protect when suits them. That is the definition of hypocritical. Comes from a deep feeling of angst at being from someplace powerless even in their own self defense.

Nope. never needed them, never will.

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