TM30 - how to register if owner refuses?

[crazygreg44]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, your GF should be able to register for the online system as the housemaster/possesor of the property, a copy of the house bluebook and GF ID would be enough. 

 

Immigration act

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever 

 

 

since the girlfriend is not the housemaster, her name does not show up in the blue housebook.  She cannot register with the TM30 Online Service.   Only the actual housemaster can, i.e. the person who is listed in the housebook of said property, and this is her cousin.

 

She could, however, ask her cousin for a rental contract. This would make the girlfriend the "housemaster".  The girlfriend then could be subletting the apartment.

 

However, at this point the problems start, again: registration is only possible with the blue housebook, and she doesn't have her own. Girlfriend is a Thai, technically she would need to do her own TM30 in her cousins premises, but Thai citizens are excluded from the requirement  . . . . . . . . etc etc !!  

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by crazygreg44

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, crazygreg44 said:

since the girlfriend is not the housemaster, her name does not show up in the blue housebook.  She cannot register with the TM30 Online Service.   Only the actual housemaster can, i.e. the person who is listed in the housebook of said property

 

As per the immigration act the housemaster is not the person registered in the blue book as housemaster (that is separate legislation).

 

Immigration act section 4

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever.

[crazygreg44]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

As per the immigration act the housemaster is not the person registered in the blue book as housemaster (that is separate legislation).

 

Immigration act section 4

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever.

she can only be the housemaster if she has a rental contract from her cousin that states that she can sublet the premises.  Which would enable her to sublet to him. But she still would need the blue housebook of her cousin for a registration into the TM30 system. She cannot do it by herself without the "owner's" blue housebook.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by crazygreg44

[bbi1]

19 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

can she convince her cousin to write up a rental contract?  1500 baht a month rent, no worries about taxation.

 

otherwise she could try to register, upload some utility or cable bills that show the house address.  never really know what might be accepted.....

Don't know if the uploaded rental contract would be accepted by immigration if it doesn't contain all those things at the back of the rental contract which includes the owners ID card, etc. Does anyone know if a rental contract without the rest at the back is sufficient?

 

There's an internet bill in the gf's name which shows the address. Don't know if immigration would accept this as enough.

Edited January 26, 2020 by bbi1

[ChouDoufu]

12 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said:

she can only be the housemaster if she has a rental contract from her cousin that states that she can sublet the premises.  Which would enable her to sublet to him. But she still would need the blue housebook of her cousin for a registration into the TM30 system. She cannot do it by herself without the "owner's" blue housebook.

 

that is not correct.

we done it.

gf's thai id and rental contract.

 

[ChouDoufu]

2 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Don't know if the uploaded rental contract would be accepted by immigration if it doesn't contain all those things at the back of the rental contract which includes the owners ID card, etc. Does anyone know if a rental contract without the rest at the back is sufficient?

 

There's an internet bill in the gf's name which shows the address. Don't know if immigration would accept this as enough.

gf's rental contract did not have that stuff.

there was no copy of owner's id or housebook.

 

[crazygreg44]

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

gf's rental contract did not have that stuff.

there was no copy of owner's id or housebook.

 

did you do it in person, or by the online system?  If you do it in person, the immigration officials tend to take your girlfriends spoken statement for granted. If you use the online system, the blue housebook of the actual owner (not the "housemaster" or contract holder) must be uploaded. A rental contract does not suffice.

 

And by the way, you might have just been lucky.

Edited January 26, 2020 by crazygreg44

[Peterw42]

25 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said:

she can only be the housemaster if she has a rental contract from her cousin that states that she can sublet the premises.  Which would enable her to sublet to him. But she still would need the blue housebook of her cousin for a registration into the TM30 system. She cannot do it by herself without the "posessor's" blue housebook.

 

So long as you stay at the house, under any circumstances, you can be the housemaster or possessor. You do not need a rental contract or permission to sublet.  Yes, you need a copy of the bluebook but that is to identify the property, not who lives there or their circumstances.

I am registered as the housemaster for my condo and the bluebook is blank, there is no rental contract.  My wife has registered for another property that she doesnt own, with no rental contract.

 

The online system asks for nothing more than the ID of the person registering and a document to identify the property. The online system does not ever ask for rental contracts.

 

 

 

Blue books are associated with a property, not the owner, not the possessor. There is no such thing as a possesors blue book.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Peterw42

[crazygreg44]

12 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Don't know if the uploaded rental contract would be accepted by immigration if it doesn't contain all those things at the back of the rental contract which includes the owners ID card, etc. Does anyone know if a rental contract without the rest at the back is sufficient?

it should suffice !

 

But "logic" not always plays a part among Thai immigration officials

[ChouDoufu]

2 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said:

did you do it in person, or by the online system?  If you do it in person, the immigration officials tend to take your girlfriends spoken statement for granted. If you use the online system, the blue housebook of the actual owner (not the "housemaster" or contract holder) must be uploaded. A rental contract does not suffice.

 

And by the way, you might have just been lucky.

we used the online system.

 

first time rejected, but that was when the tm-30 chaos had just started. 

resubmitted after 2 months when standards were relaxed and was successful.

 

about a month after that, the owner also registered and gave us her login information.  we now have two id/password sets for the same address.

 

we might have just been lucky.  i believe there are other threads where posters have also been lucky.

[crazygreg44]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

So long as you stay at the house, under any circumstances, you can be the housemaster or possessor. You do not need a rental contract or permission to sublet.  Yes, you need a copy of the bluebook but that is to identify the property, not who lives there or their circumstances.

I am registered as the housemaster for my condo and the bluebook is blank, there is no rental contract.  My wife has registered for another property that she doesnt own, with no rental contract.

 

The online system asks for nothing more than the ID of the person registering and a document to identify the property. The online system does not ever ask for rental contracts.

 

 

that is exactly what I stated:  You need the blue housebook of the property.

 

(or the chanote title or any other document ID the house) 

 

If this housebook is blank or not, doesn't matter.

 

The poster's problem is, the blue housebook belongs to the cousin of his GF and the cousin doesn't play along.

 

The girlfriend cannot prove that she is the housemaster!

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by crazygreg44

[crazygreg44]

as Chou Doufu mentioned, it is possible that the online system accepts a TM30 registration with only the copy of a rental contract and the copy of the ID of the tenant of such a contract.

 

This does NOT relate to the poster's girlfriend, she doesn't have a rental contract from her cousin. There is nothing that proves that the girlfriend is the housemaster.  However there is the slim chance that a given statement in person will be accepted by some immigration officials.  That's when luck comes into play, and not "logic"

Edited January 26, 2020 by crazygreg44

[crazygreg44]

6 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

we might have just been lucky.  i believe there are other threads where posters have also been lucky.

some threads indicate that the whole immigration rules system sometimes runs like a lottery ????

[ChouDoufu]

1 minute ago, crazygreg44 said:

some threads indicate that the whole immigration rules system sometimes runs like a lottery ????

(psst....greg......we did it online without the bluebook.)

 

agree.  everything seems to be run like a lottery.

 

in that case, op's gf should submit her id and internet bill.

 

and just like the lottery, "ya can't win if ya don't play!"

[crazygreg44]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Blue books are associated with a property, not the owner, not the possessor. There is no such thing as a possesors blue book.

I never wrote that a blue housebook is associated with the person.  If a possessor is the owner of the property, the blue housebook still is - in perfect & correct English - "the possessor's blue housebook". 

 

Even if the blue housebook itself is associated with the property only ???? it still "belongs" to the owner, making it a "possessor's blue housebook"

 

I would have never thought that some day or the other, I would start giving English language lessons in the ThaiVisa Forum . . .

Edited January 26, 2020 by crazygreg44

[Peterw42]

23 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said:

I never wrote that a blue housebook is associated with the person.  If a possessor is the owner of the property, the blue housebook still is - in perfect & correct English - "the possessor's blue housebook". 

 

Even if the blue housebook itself is associated with the property only ???? it still "belongs" to the owner, making it a "possessor's blue housebook"

 

I would have never thought that some day or the other, I would start giving English language lessons in the ThaiVisa Forum . . .

I think you will find there is a distinction between the owner and the possessor. The possessor is not the owner, its anyone other than the owner. Thats why they make the distinction owner, house master OR possessor.

The TM30 form reads as follows 

NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR THE POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE. WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED.

 

In the legal sense possessor means

 

pos·ses·sor

/pəˈzesər/

noun

 

1.  

   • LAW

     a person who takes, occupies, or holds something without necessarily having ownership, or as distinguished from the owner.

      

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, bbi1 said:

I do need to extend always, that's why I've gotta sort this out. Bloody hell immigration makes life incredibly hard with all this nonsense crappp!

Rent a cheap hotel for a week, get the extension when you're there.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Rent a cheap hotel for a week, get the extension when you're there.

Why a week. Reports of folk check in for one night prior to attend imm with success.

[kekalot]

TM30 is her responsibility

if she won't do it, just fill the TM28

 

yes, immigration might give you some grief for not having TM30 but you can't force her to do it

 

and:

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/right-on-time- phuket-immigration-explain-tm30-and-tm28-requirements-for-reporting-foreigners-72693.php

[rickthailand]

21 hours ago, bbi1 said:

I do need to extend always, that's why I've gotta sort this out. Bloody hell immigration makes life incredibly hard with all this nonsense crappp!

not immigration its the cousin making it difficult

[pookondee]

My question is:

Has the OP actually gone to extend a METV at Chaengwattana and been asked for the TM-30??

 

Unless it has changed VERY recently, tourist visas do not require TM-30.

 

Been using them for years and have never been asked for TM30, when getting an extension at CW.

[Vascoda]

Tell your GF to leave the unit and get a unit with proper doc. That may scare her cousin for losing rent and she may be willing to give the doc. If not, just move out. It is not that hard. It is in your control.