Timing of retirement extension and insurance policy

[peterdwje2]

I need to do my yearly extension based on O-A retirement visa at CW by July 2. My current insurance policy is up for renewal on Feb 18. But it does not include outpatient so I need to get a new policy.

Do I ask the insurance co. for a new, eligible policy from Feb 18 to July 2, 2021, so I get uninterrupted coverage that also includes the full year of the retirement extension? I don't even know if insurers have policies with such time frames.

Or should I extend my current policy so as to stay covered, and later shift to a new, eligible policy that starts July 2? And it's okay for the new policy to start the same day as the extension renewal -- or must it start before that?

Thank you for your advice.

[jacko45k]

Why are you not considering shifting to a Non-Imm-O?

[ubonjoe]

Is your insurance from of the companies listed here?  https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

[peterdwje2]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Is your insurance from of the companies listed here?  https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

Yes, Aetna.

[DrJack54]

OP, there is current long thread on this very problem. Seems like a mine field. 

I would start again with an non o.

Then obtain whatever private insurance you choose, if you desire insurance. 

[Martyp]

A variation of what you suggested would be to renew in February for a year. Then get a new policy for a July and they refund you the unused months. By this time the insurance companies must have encountered this issue and have come up with a solution. Not only would it depend on the insurance company but it may also depend on the Immigration office. There was a recent post from someone who had a problem synchronizing their policy with their extension dates. Best to know what the Immigration office expects before talking with your insurance company.

[peterdwje2]

On 1/27/2020 at 2:59 PM, jacko45k said:

Why are you not considering shifting to a Non-Imm-O?

I'd like to do that, but I have no plan to leave the country and return before my current extension expires. And I understand the O-A to O conversion cannot be done inside, at CW, is that correct? Thanks.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

I'd like to do that, but I have no plan to leave the country and return before my current extension expires. And I understand the O-A to O conversion cannot be done inside, at CW, is that correct? Thanks.

It can be done inside Thailand. However you would need to exit and reenter on visa exempt or setv and do conversion to non o at immigration

[ubonjoe]

34 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

I'd like to do that, but I have no plan to leave the country and return before my current extension expires. And I understand the O-A to O conversion cannot be done inside, at CW, is that correct? Thanks.

You cannot change non immigrant visa categories at immigration.

You could leave and re-enter the country to get a 30 day visa exempt entry. Than be done at a land border crossing or by air on the same day. Then you could apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at at a immigration office based upon qualifying for an extension of stay based upon retirement. Then during the last 30 days or 45 days at some immigration offices you could apply for the one year extension of stay.

Requirement for the non immigrant visa application is here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf

[peterdwje2]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot change non immigrant visa categories at immigration.

You could leave the country and re-enter the country to get a 30 day visa exempt entry. Than be done at a land border crossing or by air on the same day. Then you could apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at at a immigration office based upon qualifying for an extension of stay based upon retirement. Then during the last 30 days or 45 days at some immigration offices you could apply for the one year extension of stay.

Requirement for the non immigrant visa application is here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf

I am not able to do land border trip due to car motion sickness, and air trip and conversion route may come out more expensive and more hassle than changing my current insurance to O-A eligible insurance. My current insurance does not cover outpatient, and I was thinking maybe I should get that coverage anyway. Some have said in this forum that the eligible policies are useless outside Thailand. But I do see on the approved list companies with policies with worldwide coverage (except US) and you can buy supplementary travel insurance, which is not expensive, to plug any holes, no? Appreciate any thoughts, and thanks.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, peterdwje2 said:

I'd like to do that, but I have no plan to leave the country and return before my current extension expires. And I understand the O-A to O conversion cannot be done inside, at CW, is that correct? Thanks.

I believe you are correct, normally one would let the current extension (On O-A) expire, by leaving Thailand. A Non-O conversion could then be done on a Visa Exempt Entry or Tourist Visa Entry.  I have heard of IOs doing a change 'in house', so to speak, but at a cost, not many, and not at CW. 

[Vascoda]

19 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I have heard of IOs doing a change 'in house', so to speak, but at a cost, not many, and not at CW. 

Are they doing in Jomtian at a cost?

[Vascoda]

23 hours ago, peterdwje2 said:

My current insurance does not cover outpatient, and I was thinking maybe I should get that coverage anyway.

Out patient coverage of 40K ($1.5K USD) is useless. It adds another 25K/year (depending on age) to the premium. One must have 40K BHT  in their bank account as a retiree to cover that medical expenses if required. If not, they are in serious trouble financially to meet any emergency need.

Exit/Entry by air will be the best option but OP is unwilling to do that. It may be even cheaper. I understand exit/entry by road is tiring and I will not  do to get an extension.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Vascoda

[peterdwje2]

20 minutes ago, Vascoda said:

Out patient coverage of 40K ($1.5K USD) is useless. It adds another 25K/year (depending on age) to the premium. One must have 40K BHT  in their bank account as a retiree to cover that medical expenses if required. If not, they are in serious trouble financially to meet any emergency need.

Exit/Entry by air will be the best option but OP is unwilling to do that. It may be even cheaper. I understand exit/entry by road is tiring and I will not  do to get an extension.

I'm looking at an Aetna policy with 60,000b per year OPD. Yes, it adds about 50,000b to the premium vs. no OPD. But even if it was 40,000b, I can't imagine using it all during the year as OPD in Thailand is inexpensive. And if I am adding OPD to my coverage (my current insurance  covers only inpatient), that would seem a better use of the money than to fly abroad and convert to O visa, no? Or am I missing something please?

By the way, to be eligible for O-A extension, the policy doesn't have to be exactly 40,000 OPD but can be higher, correct?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

And if I am adding OPD to my coverage (my current insurance  covers only inpatient), that would seem a better use of the money than to fly abroad and convert to O visa, no? Or am I missing something please?

It depend upon how you get the non-o visa. You do a border hop to get a 30 day visa exempt entry and then apply for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration for a fee of 2000 baht. The cost of the border hop would depend upon where you are living. The cost could be as little as 2 or 3,000 baht.

 

5 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

By the way, to be eligible for O-A extension, the policy doesn't have to be exactly 40,000 OPD but can be higher, correct?

As long as you meet the minimum requirements immigration would accept the insurance.

[Vascoda]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The cost could be as little as 2 or 3,000 baht.

Flying and staying in 3 star hotel for one night and food etc. is not going to be 3K. For cost evaluation use 5K. OP does not want to do a land crossing by car. I undertnad why he does not want to do land crossing. Stayed for three years using TV, never used land crossing or visa run companies. 

So 5K + 2K = 7K + little bit hassle for conversion. But it;s one time only. And he saves 50K year after year. Even if he uses an agent for 10K to completly elimiate all hassles, he is still ahead of the game financially. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Vascoda

[peterdwje2]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It depend upon how you get the non-o visa. You do a border hop to get a 30 day visa exempt entry and then apply for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration for a fee of 2000 baht. The cost of the border hop would depend upon where you are living. The cost could be as little as 2 or 3,000 baht.

 

As long as you meet the minimum requirements immigration would accept the insurance.

I can't do land trip due motion sickness so air is the only option. And if by air, I can't make it there and back the same day for same reason. So cost-wise, seems better to stay and add outpatient coverage instead.

If my current extension expires July 2, I ask the insurance company to date-start the new year-long policy on July 2, correct? But I can apply a month early while holding my current, non-eligible policy, correct?

I'd appreciate hearing from others in similar situation who did the extension with new policy successfully.

 

[peterdwje2]

6 minutes ago, Vascoda said:

Flying and staying in 3 star hotel for one night and food etc. is not going to be 3K. For cost evaluation use 5K. OP does not want to do a land crossing by car. I undertnad why he does not want to do land crossing. Stayed for three years using TV, never used land crossing or visa run companies. 

So 5K + 2K = 7K + little bit hassle for conversion. But it;s one time only. And he saves 50K year after year. Even if he uses an agent for 10K to completly elimiate all hassles, he is still ahead of the game financially. 

I hadn't thought about the year-after-year cost, you're right. I guess cost-benefit would depend on how much one made use of the OPD benefit each year.

And i back of my mind, I also worry that in future the insurance requirement also will be tacked on to Non-O extensions.

A difficult, complicated decision.

[Vascoda]

9 minutes ago, Vascoda said:

Flying and staying in 3 star hotel for one night

It is better to fly to KL now as KL has stopped all visitoprs form China. I'm cancelling my earlier plan to fly to HCMC and changing to KL. Found out that they have flight to KL from UTP.

[Vascoda]

5 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

I hadn't thought about the year-after-year cost, you're right.

Just put the money 50K in a separte bank accont. Use it for your travel to KL or Penang and hire an agent for 10K to do it. Next year put another 50K in the same account. You will soon find out you're ahead. Use thaat sperate account for OP. 

I'm just amazed that they chrge 50K more for for 60K OPD coverage. Wondering if Thai insurance companies use acturial science or just add random numbers?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Vascoda

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

I can't do land trip due motion sickness so air is the only option. And if by air, I can't make it there and back the same day for same reason.

You could easily to a out and back on the same day to a nearby country.

Flying from Don Mueang to Kuala Lumpur can be done the same day without a problem. See Air Asia for flight schedules.

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, Vascoda said:

Flying and staying in 3 star hotel for one night and food etc. is not going to be 3K. For cost evaluation use 5K. OP does not want to do a land crossing by car. I undertnad why he does not want to do land crossing.

No need to stay overnight dependent upon where you fly to. Don Mueang to KL can easily be done on the same day.

[peterdwje2]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No need to stay overnight dependent upon where you fly to. Don Mueang to KL can easily be done on the same day.

I have a multiple re-entry on current O-A stay. Do I need to somehow void this before flying out and returning visa exempt to apply for Non-O at CW? When you return visa-exempt, that automatically voids your O-A stay?

And what happens if for some reason your Non-O application is rejected at CW? Is it safer to apply for the non-O abroad?

 

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

I have a multiple re-entry on current O-A stay. Do I need to somehow void this before flying out and returning visa exempt to apply for Non-O at CW? When you return visa-exempt, that automatically voids your O-A stay?

And what happens if for some reason your Non-O application is rejected at CW? Is it safer to apply for the non-O abroad?

 

You can't void it.

[Martyp]

12 minutes ago, peterdwje2 said:

I have a multiple re-entry on current O-A stay. Do I need to somehow void this before flying out and returning visa exempt to apply for Non-O at CW? When you return visa-exempt, that automatically voids your O-A stay?

And what happens if for some reason your Non-O application is rejected at CW? Is it safer to apply for the non-O abroad?

 

I also have a multiple re-entry on my O-A based extension of stay. My understanding is that you have to wait until the expiration of the re-entry permit. Then you leave and re-enter on visa exempt. I can’t see how an O application would be rejected at CW if you meet the requirements. It’s not a rogue office. I’ve used CW for three years. What I read about other offices seems crazy. All my interactions at CW have seem pretty normal.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Vascoda said:

Are they doing in Jomtian at a cost?

That was one I heard of......

[DrJack54]

Not being pedantic but the OP would need to exit before his reentry permit expires as it will be same date as his permission of stay. Could be last day and return the next I guess.

[peterdwje2]

Just in case I go the extend O-A with insurance route, if my current stay expires July 2, do I ask the insurance company to make the new policy effective on July 2? 

[mrwebb8825]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:18 AM, DrJack54 said:

It can be done inside Thailand. However you would need to exit and reenter on visa exempt or setv and do conversion to non o at immigration

Reread this and think about the logic of your posting. "It can be done inside BUT you have to leave and come back on a different visa"?? ????

[DrJack54]

Just now, mrwebb8825 said:

Reread this and think about the logic of your posting. "It can be done inside BUT you have to leave and come back on a different visa"?? ????

If you previously were doing extensions based on O-A and wish to change to non o there are 2 ways do do that. Exit Thailand without a reentry permit (killing your permission of stay) and obtain non o at a Thai consulate. OR

EXIT and reenter either via visa exempt stamp or setv. Either of these can be "converted" at immigration to a non o.

Prior to expiry apply for extension.

Which bit don't you get?