Lovethailandelite Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: Nothing new there really. They have been telling people that they have to stay overnight at some Malaysian border crossing for many years. I am not sure that is a Thai immigration requirement. It could be something that Malaysian immigration has been telling them. No big deal really if your are prepared to stay at least one night. Arrive late stay overnight and return the next morning. There is a general shift coming to all land borders which will become evident this year. Particularly in the application at the borders and the issuing of these ME Non O visas in Embassy's and consulates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ubonjoe Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said: There is a general shift coming to all land borders which will become evident this year. Particularly in the application at the borders and the issuing of these ME Non O visas in Embassy's and consulates. Again spreading what can be considered false info until you can show proof of it being a new requirment. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post john terry1001 Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 10 hours ago, thaistuff said: I think that is my 20th, and final time at that border. So you've been living in Thailand for FIVE YEARS on non O visas and border runs. That's not what a non O visa was designed for. It's designed for 'temporary stay' and/or a stepping stone in the process to obtaining a one year extension of stay at Immigration. It's people abusing the system and doing the same/similar process to you that is likely to eventually result in a further tightening of the rules and make it even more difficult for other genuine non O holders. eg: land border crossings have already been limited to two per year for visa exempt. Applying the same/similar rules to include non O visa holders (max of two land border runs per year) would likely stop you abusing the system and, I'm sure that option has not been lost on the powers that be. Just get a one year extension, it's easier, with only a couple of hours work once a year to get all the paperwork together and costing just 1900 baht, compared to four days lost each year at a cost of 10k baht to do border runs, plus the cost and time spent to go to Savannakhet each year to obtain a new non O. 2 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BritManToo Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, john terry1001 said: So you've been living in Thailand for FIVE YEARS on non O visas and border runs. That's not what a non O visa was designed for. It's designed for 'temporary stay' and/or a stepping stone in the process to obtaining a one year extension of stay at Immigration. I'm calling BS on this one ........ I've also been living here on Non-O, nothing written anywhere to suggest it's a temporary stay. The Consulates and border immigration officers have never suggested I'm doing anything wrong. Might as well call an extension a 'temporary stay' as you still have to report to immigration every 90 days. As far as I can see, any foreigner in Thailand who doesn't have PR or citizenship is here on a temporary stay. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BritManToo Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, john terry1001 said: Just get a one year extension, it's easier, with only a couple of hours work once a year to get all the paperwork together and costing just 1900 baht, compared to four days lost each year at a cost of 10k baht to do border runs, plus the cost and time spent to go to Savannakhet each year to obtain a new non O. You're not being very honest about the costs now, are you? 1,900bht for the extension, 2,500bht for the re-entry permit, lost interest on the 800,000bht in a Thai bank (let's say 5%). (ignore the bank costs, photocopies, etc as trivial). Dare I mention the compulsory insurance? So 1,900 + 2,500 + 40,000 = 44,500bht lasts 1 year Non imm O multi, $200 HCMC return air fare 3,000bht, room for the night 500bht, 4 border runs @ 2,000bht. 6,000 + 3,000 + 500 +8,000 = 17,500bht lasts 15 months So extension 44,500bht lasts 1 year Vs Non O multi 17,500bht lasts 15 months. Edited January 28, 2020 by BritManToo 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post john terry1001 Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BritManToo said: 16 minutes ago, john terry1001 said: So you've been living in Thailand for FIVE YEARS on non O visas and border runs. That's not what a non O visa was designed for. It's designed for 'temporary stay' and/or a stepping stone in the process to obtaining a one year extension of stay at Immigration. I'm calling BS on this one ........ I've also been living here on Non-O, nothing written anywhere to suggest it's a temporary stay. The Consulates and border immigration officers have never suggested I'm doing anything wrong. Might as well call an extension a 'temporary stay' as you still have to report to immigration every 90 days. As far as I can see, any foreigner in Thailand who doesn't have PR or citizenship is here on a temporary stay. You can call it whatever you like. We all have our own opinions on the way the system was set up for. The rules are being continually changed/updated. Just my personal opinion but I wouldn't mind betting there will be more restrictions on doing continual non O border runs long before my extension based on marriage becomes restricted to the same level. 2 minutes ago, BritManToo said: You're not being very honest about the costs now, are you? 1,900bht for the extension, 2,500bht for the re-entry permit, lost interest on the 800,000bht in a Thai bank (let's say 5%). So 1,900 + 2,500 + 40,000 = 44,500bht lasts 1 year Non imm O multi, $200 HCMC return air fare 3,000bht, room for the night 500bht, 4 border runs @ 2,000bht. 6,000 + 3,000 + 500 +8,000 = 17,500bht (lasts 15 months) So extension 44,500bht lasts 1 year Vs Non O multi 17,500bht lasts 15 months. I personally am being VERY honest. I pay 1,900 baht per year. I don't need a multi re-entry permit evey year so don't pay for it. I don't leave 800k baht in a Thai bank so don't tie up that money or loose any interest. I transfer 40k+ baht into my bank every month for our living expenses and that satisfies also immigration needs for my extension.(you must also transfer everyday living expenses in a similar fashion unless you live on fresh air). I don't pay any costs for travel to obtain a non O visa. If I do need to exit Thailand (the last time was two years ago) I pay 1000 baht for a re-entry permit So my annual cost IS 1,900 baht NOT 44,500 baht. Edited January 28, 2020 by john terry1001 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, BritManToo said: You're not being very honest about the costs now, are you? 1,900bht for the extension, 2,500bht for the re-entry permit, lost interest on the 800,000bht in a Thai bank (let's say 5%). (ignore the bank costs, photocopies, etc as trivial). Dare I mention the compulsory insurance? So 1,900 + 2,500 + 40,000 = 44,500bht lasts 1 year Non imm O multi, $200 HCMC return air fare 3,000bht, room for the night 500bht, 4 border runs @ 2,000bht. 6,000 + 3,000 + 500 +8,000 = 17,500bht lasts 15 months So extension 44,500bht lasts 1 year Vs Non O multi 17,500bht lasts 15 months. No insurance required for the O extension. If they ever bring that in it will have a massive effect. Not many expats 70+ want to pay 200k-300k a year, with conditions you are likely to claim on excluded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matzzon Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said: A multi entry visa allows someone to leave and come back its not meant as replacement to 90 day reporting. It allow someone to travel, home or otherwise, who is living in Thailand with a longterm type O. Wow! You are really in the know! It allows a person to travel??? No, it tells a person that they must travel to another country every 90 days, if they do not extend for 60 days at an immigration office. Like stated before in this thread, and as I tried to explain, people get problems just because they try to do the classical border run (go and back in 10 minutes). If they just stay over night all is fine. Just don´t tell me that something allows a person to do something, when it is in fact a condition for the type of visa this thread regards. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jimn Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Matzzon said: What are you talking about? That is exactly what the Non-0 Multiple Entry Visa based on marriage or child in Thailand is designed for. A holder of that type of visa must leave the country every 90 days to get a new stamp. The only choice is to go to immigration and receive a 60 day extension first, but still have to exit and enter for a new permission to stay after that. What can be seen as wrong is that people are doing border bounces, instead of staying outside for one or two nights before renewing their permission to stay. Thank you for your confrontational post in an amicable discussion I was having with the OP. As it happens I disagree with your comments. The Non O based on marriage is not designed for someone living in Thailand with his wife and family. The clue here is that it cannot be obtained within but only outside Thailand. It is designed for someone visiting the wife and family not living here full time, I think the OP is aware of that. The correct way to live here with wife and family full time is an extension of stay based on marriage. Now I have no proof just an opinion, but I fully expect the multi entry Non O to be ceased at some point. 4 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said: At that border it says no telephones, there's a sign up, so i guess you wouldn't be allowed you could put on record as you neared the io Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin case Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 people in power, even a little, love to abuse it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said: At that border it says no telephones, there's a sign up, so i guess you wouldn't be allowed But someone could just have a phone in their pocket recording the audio and put up the border and agents name. That would put some serious public heat on these agents and I would even surmise it would be highly possible for entire false fee operations to cease if a post went viral. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sucit Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, john terry1001 said: So you've been living in Thailand for FIVE YEARS on non O visas and border runs. That's not what a non O visa was designed for. It's designed for 'temporary stay' and/or a stepping stone in the process to obtaining a one year extension of stay at Immigration. It's people abusing the system and doing the same/similar process to you that is likely to eventually result in a further tightening of the rules and make it even more difficult for other genuine non O holders. eg: land border crossings have already been limited to two per year for visa exempt. Applying the same/similar rules to include non O visa holders (max of two land border runs per year) would likely stop you abusing the system and, I'm sure that option has not been lost on the powers that be. Just get a one year extension, it's easier, with only a couple of hours work once a year to get all the paperwork together and costing just 1900 baht, compared to four days lost each year at a cost of 10k baht to do border runs, plus the cost and time spent to go to Savannakhet each year to obtain a new non O. I think it is very difficult for us to figure out exactly what a non o me was designed for, unless you were a fly on the wall back in the day when the thais came up with the concept. This is really pretty simple. You can enter Thailand on non o's as many times as you like. Each time you enter you get 90 days. So if someone had a non o me and goes to cambodia everyday for work, this is all perfectly legit. To say someone who crosses over and back just a few times a year is somehow doing something out of order is just wrong as i see it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, sucit said: But someone could just have a phone in their pocket recording the audio and put up the border and agents name. That would put some serious public heat on these agents and I would even surmise it would be highly possible for entire false fee operations to cease if a post went viral. Problem is it goes all the way up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said: Problem is it goes all the way up Wouldn't that be a good thing? The higher ups would be shown they can't mess with these silly illegal fees they impose, and they would instruct officers as such. Edited January 28, 2020 by sucit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazygreg44 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said: There is a general shift coming to all land borders which will become evident this year. Particularly in the application at the borders and the issuing of these ME Non O visas in Embassy's and consulates. yes, but it does not relate to the "marriage" types of Non-O's. Indeed, the Thai Embassy of Washington DC and all consulates inside the USA have by now discontinued issuing the Non-Imm-O visa Single and Multi Entry for applicants under the "retirement" purpose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazygreg44 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, BritManToo said: You're not being very honest about the costs now, are you? 1,900bht for the extension, 2,500bht for the re-entry permit, lost interest on the 800,000bht in a Thai bank (let's say 5%). (ignore the bank costs, photocopies, etc as trivial). Dare I mention the compulsory insurance? So 1,900 + 2,500 + 40,000 = 44,500bht lasts 1 year i pay 1900 THB for the yearly extension, 1000 THB for a single re entry permit, and the 800K+ in my Thai bank account earn around 2600 THB interest each year. This amount wouldn't earn me ANY interest on any bank in my home country. So i am down to 300 THB in costs, means I get my yearly extension for almost free. The 800K+ are good for an emergency, can easily be withdrawn and will fall to my Thai partner in case of my demise Edited January 28, 2020 by crazygreg44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said: yes, but it does not relate to the "marriage" types of Non-O's. Indeed, the Thai Embassy of Washington DC and all consulates inside the USA have by now discontinued issuing the Non-Imm-O visa Single and Multi Entry for applicants under the "retirement" purpose That was done about two years ago or more. Only the honorary consulates had been issuing them for being 50 or over for retirement before then. They must not been doing enough OA visas so cut off the non-o visas. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazygreg44 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, ubonjoe said: That was done about two years ago or more. Only the honorary consulates had been issuing them for being 50 or over for retirement before then. They must not been doing enough OA visas so cut off the non-o visas. i discovered this morning that the consulate in Los Angeles does not issue the Non-O visa for retirement purpose any more. Haven't checked other consulates websites, yet, hoever I think the find would be the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matzzon Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, jimn said: Now I have no proof just an opinion, but I fully expect the multi entry Non O to be ceased at some point. Exactly! No proof and only an opinion. That as well as you expect something to happen. ???????????? By the way. You also very gracefully avoided to confront your biggest mistake in your earlier post: 12 hours ago, jimn said: I agree that your treatment is appalling however the guy does have a point. Doing a border bounce every 90 days although legal is not what its designed for. If you are living here full time, you really should be on an extension of stay based on marriage. At the same time you are using the words "designed for" here, you also used "it allows for" in another post. That´s purely fantastic. Start to present facts instead of dreams and beliefs as well as misleading information. This is the fact: A Non-0 ME is issued with a valid until date one year after it has been granted. You must leave the country every 90 days or extend your 90 days with another 60 days at an immigration office and then leave the country. As it is valid for 1 year you can then re-enter and stay in Thailand for almost a total period of 17 months excluding travelling out and in every 90 or 150 days. That´s what it allows for and that is in fact the design of this specific type of visa. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlandtday Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 It's a shakedown and it will only get worse. Welcome to Thailand:) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ubonjoe Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said: i discovered this morning that the consulate in Los Angeles does not issue the Non-O visa for retirement purpose any more. Haven't checked other consulates websites, yet, hoever I think the find would be the same Don't even bother to try and get a non-o visa for retirement. The embassies and official consulates have not issued them for a very long time. The embassy told the honorary not to issue them anymore. For other non immigrant visas they can only issue single entry visas. They also cannot issue multiple entry tourist visas. Only the embassy and official consulates can issue multiple entry visas. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, BritManToo said: 2,500bht for the re-entry permit, Re-Entry Permits are not 2500 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, sucit said: I think it is very difficult for us to figure out exactly what a non o me was designed for, unless you were a fly on the wall back in the day when the thais came up with the concept. Seem to recall it was exactly the same to obtain many years ago as the single Non-Imm-O, other than the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 hours ago, jimn said: I fully expect the multi entry Non O to be ceased at some point. You could fully expect cows to fly tomorrow too. But that does not mean much to anyone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 50 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Re-Entry Permits are not 2500 baht. Sorry, 3,800bht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravda Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 hours ago, WalkingOrders said: A multi entry visa allows someone to leave and come back its not meant as replacement to 90 day reporting. It allow someone to travel, home or otherwise, who is living in Thailand with a longterm type O. Guess what genius. The 1 year extension of stay does not mean you are allowed to live in Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightfox Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I would avoid all Cambodian land boarders and stick with Laos as I been doing 90 day in and out on my Non O for 4 straight years using Mukdahan-Savanakhet boarder and never once questioned, quick one minute entry stamp and your back in Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post john terry1001 Posted January 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, sucit said: I think it is very difficult for us to figure out exactly what a non o me was designed for, unless you were a fly on the wall back in the day when the thais came up with the concept. Firstly things were much more relaxed back in the 90's. I can only comment about the UK but I've been travelling to Thailand annually, using non O visas, for over twenty-five years (1994) before moving to live here about fifteen years ago, with the occasional trip back to the UK. Before it closed, I always got my visas from the Thai Consulate in Birmingham and knew the person (and his mother) personally who ran the consulate there. In the early days things were very relaxed and he told me he would issue a ME non O to anybody (such as backpackers) who wanted to travel around Thailand temporarily for more than thirty days and up to a year. In fact, he would issue a non O to anybody who wanted to go to Thailand for more than a month without any problems. (Hull was even worse and often crossed their guidelines from London). Around early 2000's he was told to tighten up and insist on having a copy of all relevant documents for the correct visa and, by about 2004-5 he was told he could only issue non O's for the correct categories (marriage, families, etc) with 'retirees' being refused non O's and having to apply for O-A visas. ME visas were still available. But Hull continued to abuse the system and were eventually stopped from issuing ME visas directly and had to forward application on to London. I got my last ME non O from Birmingham in March 2013. Shortly after that they were only allowed to issue SE non O's with the ME version only issued via London. I am not sure exactly when after that the ME non O's were stopped completely but it could have been around 2015-16. Now, only SE non O's are available in the UK. But even in the early, relaxed days of twenty-five years ago, non O visas were only ever issued for temporary (one year) stays, with backpackers taking a gap year probably the most popular applicants in Birmingham. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, john terry1001 said: Around early 2000's he was told to tighten up and insist on having a copy of all relevant documents for the correct visa and, by about 2004-5 he was told he could only issue non O's for the correct categories (marriage, families, etc) with 'retirees' being refused non O's and having to apply for O-A visas. Odd that, as he sold me one in 2009 for retirement, and I stayed here until June 2010 on it, then I got married and purchased my first marriage extension. Edited January 28, 2020 by BritManToo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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