Ban Pakard... Trouble with valid Non-Imm O visa during border run... 2000 baht added "fee" to receive stamp

[john terry1001]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Odd that, as he sold me one in 2009 for retirement, and I stayed here until June 2010 on it.

what paperwork did you have to supply with your application?

 

Was it your first application at Birmingham?

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by john terry1001

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

what paperwork did you have to supply with your application?

 

A completed application form stating my reason to visit as 'travel around Thailand', my passport, a photo and a cheque for 125 pounds. (120 pounds for the VISA, 5 pounds for next day return post). I might be a little out with the amounts, it was a long time ago.

 

I'd applied and received a Tourist VISA from him 4-6 weeks earlier (which was my first trip to Thailand).

Only went back to the UK for a week to dump all my belongings, and say goodbye to my 4 kids.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by BritManToo

[sucit]

17 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

Firstly things were much more relaxed back in the 90's. I can only comment about the UK but I've been travelling to Thailand annually, using non O visas, for over twenty-five years (1994) before moving to live here about fifteen years ago, with the occasional trip back to the UK.  Before it closed, I always got my visas from the Thai Consulate in Birmingham and knew the person (and his mother) personally who ran the consulate there. In the early days things were very relaxed and he told me he would issue a ME non O to anybody (such as backpackers) who wanted to travel around Thailand temporarily for more than thirty days and up to a year. In fact, he would issue a non O to anybody who wanted to go to Thailand for more than a month without any problems. (Hull was even worse and often crossed their guidelines from London). Around early 2000's he was told to tighten up and insist on having a copy of all relevant documents for the correct visa and, by about 2004-5 he was told he could only issue non O's for the correct categories (marriage, families, etc) with 'retirees' being refused non O's and having to apply for O-A visas. ME visas were still available. But Hull continued to abuse the system and were eventually stopped from issuing ME visas directly and had to forward application on to London. I got my last ME non O from Birmingham in March 2013. Shortly after that they were only allowed to issue SE non O's with the ME version only issued via London. I am not sure exactly when after that the ME non O's were stopped completely but it could have been around 2015-16. Now, only SE non O's are available in the UK.

 

But even in the early, relaxed days of twenty-five years ago, non O visas were only ever issued for temporary (one year) stays, with backpackers taking a gap year probably the most popular applicants in Birmingham.

Even if your post is entirely true, I feel like it proves my point, that non imm o me purpose according to immigration is very difficult to impossible to classify. 

 

That is why, when you have one it says you can enter as many times as you would like and get 90 days each time. based on that, i think it is improper to suppose someone is doing something wrong if you do what the op has done. 

[hank69]

out/in at nong khai last week (within the hour) stamped back in as normal.

 

[john terry1001]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

A completed application form stating my reason to visit as 'travel around Thailand', my passport, a photo and a cheque for 125 pounds. (120 pounds for the VISA, 5 pounds for next day return post). I might be a little out with the amounts, it was a long time ago.

 

I can't comment, I can only hazard a guess. Firstly, as you mention £5 postage I assume you didn't actually go into the consulate then, and can't say whether the person issuing the visa was English, his mother or a Thai diplomat from the London Thai Embassy.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

I can't comment, I can only hazard a guess. Firstly, as you mention £5 postage I assume you didn't actually go into the consulate then, and can't say whether the person issuing the visa was English, his mother or a Thai diplomat from the London Thai Embassy.

You said you couldn't get a ME non-o retirement after 2005 from Birmingham, I showed you one dated 2009.

You no longer have any credibility in this thread, and have just joined my ignore list.

Edited January 28, 2020 by BritManToo

[john terry1001]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You said you couldn't get a ME non-o retirement after 2005 from Birmingham, I showed you one dated 2009.

You no longer have any credibility in this thread, and have just joined my ignore list.

You didn't answer my questions DID YOU!!!!!

I asked you if you knew who had actually issued your visa because if the London based diplomat, who was a regular visitor to the Consulate, did yours, of course he would have issued it directly. Being a member of the London Embassy, he was able to do that.

 

Two ignores on one thread, At this rate you'll have nobody left to talk to.????

Edited January 28, 2020 by john terry1001

[john terry1001]

3 minutes ago, sucit said:

Even if your post is entirely true, I feel like it proves my point, that non imm o me purpose according to immigration is very difficult to impossible to classify. 

 

That is why, when you have one it says you can enter as many times as you would like and get 90 days each time. based on that, i think it is improper to suppose someone is doing something wrong if you do what the op has done. 

Apart from putting everything down from memory,  so dates might be slightly out, YES, MY POST IS TRUE!!!!!

 

And yes, of course on a ME non O visa you have always been able to enter/exit multiple times as long as one stay in Thailand doesn't exceed 90 days. The issue I whether you are entitled to continuous back to back ME non O visas to enable you to stay in Thailand continually/semi permanently without the need to obtain an extension and prove you legally meet the required criteria.

 

I don't think the non O is designed to allow that, others have a different opinion.

[EricTh]

15 hours ago, thaistuff said:

I should add that yes, I had already paid the 2300 border run fare with my driver. That covers the Cambodian visa fee.

 

Haven't you read the many forummers experience in this forum? 

 

Border run days are over as Thai immigration is closing many loopholes for those who are trying to game the system. There were too many border runners staying long-term on tourist visa.

 

But I always thought a marriage extension is for a one year period, why is your 'marriage visa' a 90 day only? I'm confused.

 

Or is that really a tourist visa....

Edited January 28, 2020 by EricTh

[john terry1001]

2 minutes ago, EricTh said:

But I always thought a marriage extension is for a one year period, why is your 'marriage visa' a 90 day only? I'm confused.

Are you talking about an extension of stay based on marriage or a non O marriage visa? The non O visa based on marriage can either be a SE, valid for 90 days which only allows one single entry into Thailand or  ME which is valid for one year and allows multiple entries during that year .....but... each entry into Thailand cannot exceed 90 days. So, even with a ME non O visa you must do a border run every 90 days.

 

An extension of stay based on marriage allows you to remain in Thailand for one year without having to leave the country, but you must still report your current address to your local immigration office every 90 days.

[gamesgplayemail]

So anybody with a brain knows that Cambodia and Malaysia border are a problem, but still go there for visa run ? you just deserve your problems !

I have been to laos and myanmar for the last 10 years without any problem, but maybe I am too smart for the system ?

the 10 previous years I lived on tourist visa also.

Very funny that some MR know all here pretend to teach us what we can do or not with a non o visa hahaha

In a country where cheating is the rule, I am a lot better than the locals to "cheat" the system, and I am proud of it.

I have never been a doggy follower who obeys stupid rules, I let it to all obedient sexpats scare to lose the little things that they own after a hard life working hahahaha....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

But I always thought a marriage extension is for a one year period, why is your 'marriage visa' a 90 day only? I'm confused.

OP has 1 year Multi entry Non-o VISA to visit his wife, allows as many 90 day entries as you like in a year.

Learn the difference between a 'VISA' and an 'extension' then you won't be so confused.

 

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

Guess what genius. The 1 year extension of stay does not mean you are allowed to live in Thailand.

 

The one-year extension of temporary stay allows the foreigner to stay (Thai: อยู่) in Thailand for that period and to be alive, ie live, during that entire period.

 

For the marriage extension I write "live with my Thai wife" on the line "Reason for extension" on the application form for the extension.

[sucit]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

Apart from putting everything down from memory,  so dates might be slightly out, YES, MY POST IS TRUE!!!!!

 

And yes, of course on a ME non O visa you have always been able to enter/exit multiple times as long as one stay in Thailand doesn't exceed 90 days. The issue I whether you are entitled to continuous back to back ME non O visas to enable you to stay in Thailand continually/semi permanently without the need to obtain an extension and prove you legally meet the required criteria.

 

I don't think the non O is designed to allow that, others have a different opinion.

If you were not entitled to back-to-back nonimm o ME they would check your passport and not allow one if you had one previously. 

 

They don't do that, so it is allowed and opinions on the matter are not necessary. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by sucit

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, sucit said:

If you were not entitled to back-to-back nonimm o ME they would check your passport and not allow one if you had one previously.  

I've got about 12 single back to back Non-os in my passport.

Nobody official has ever said a word to me about 'too many', or 'get an extension'.

Edited January 28, 2020 by BritManToo
typo

[jimn]

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Exactly! No proof and only an opinion. That as well as you expect something to happen. ????????????

 

By the way. You also very gracefully avoided to confront your biggest mistake in your earlier post:

At the same time you are using the words "designed for" here, you also used "it allows for" in another post. That´s purely fantastic. Start to present facts instead of dreams and beliefs as well as misleading information.
 

This is the fact: A Non-0 ME is issued with a valid until date one year after it has been granted. You must leave the country every 90 days or extend your 90 days with another 60 days at an immigration office and then leave the country. As it is valid for 1 year you can then re-enter and stay in Thailand for almost a total period of 17 months excluding travelling out and in every 90 or 150 days. That´s what it allows for and that is in fact the design of this specific type of visa.

I will come back to you one more time and then I will give it a rest. I fully understand what you can do with the Non O ME visa. I fully agree with you what you can get away with using this visa. As I said before, in my opinion, which is as valid as anyone else on this forum, it is something that will not be allowed for much longer. The UK consulates no longer issue a Non O ME, in my opinion this will soon apply across the board. People are abusing the Non O ME doing the border bounces and extensions as you point out to live here, when they should be on an extension of stay. What will you do then?

[fourpack]

11 hours ago, johnmell said:

Must be quite a big revenue source from these one year visas.5,000 baht in Savannakhet and 200 USD in Ho Chi Minh City, plus 1,900 baht for any 60 day extensions, as opposed to 1,900 baht for one year extension.

Your forgetting tying up 400k in a bank account. But that doesn't fit your post really does it

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, fourpack said:

Your forgetting tying up 400k in a bank account.

Only for 2 months out of the year. There is also a option to prove 40k baht of income.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Only for 2 months out of the year. There is also a option to prove 40k baht of income.

3 or 4 months in Chiang mai, as you need it in the bank 2 months before you apply, and they don't let you take it out until after your passport is stamped with the new extension.

Edited January 28, 2020 by BritManToo

[Thaidream]

45 minutes ago, jimn said:

will come back to you one more time and then I will give it a rest. I fully understand what you can do with the Non O ME visa. I fully agree with you what you can get away with using this visa. As I said before, in my opinion, which is as valid as anyone else on this forum, it is something that will not be allowed for much longer. The UK consulates no longer issue a Non O ME, in my opinion this will soon apply across the board. People are abusing the Non O ME doing the border bounces and extensions as you point out to live here, when they should be on an extension of stay. What will you do then?

People will start to get a single  entry Non O. rather than a ME.

 

If Thailand starts to restrict No O Visas for married people- it will go against the  UN Declaration of Human Rights

 

Article 16.
 

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State

 

When a country starts to resrict married people from seeing each other they are in basic violation of this doctrine.

 

The problem Thailand faces is that it's extension policy regarding married people is not the same as other countries policy. There is no reciprocity.

 

For example-  when I process a Visa for my Thai wife to live permanently in America; I have to show an amount -ONE TIME- equivalent to about $22.000 in the form of cash; Or- a job that pays the same; Or-  other assets- house/condo/land Or a sponsor who will attest to support.   Not every year- but once- then a Visa is issued- the initial stay is 2 years and after a recheck by Immigration we are still maried- a Permanent Residence Visa is issued- good forever and my wife  gets all the things an American can get- right to work; right to own land; right for pensions; Social Security.

 

In Thailand- I get nothing except a one year temporary stay. Each year i have to show 400K (Thai Baht) in a Thai bank.( Or 40K sent to a Thai Bank each month)  My wife's income doesn't count; my fully paid house does not count; my wife's land holding don't count. Each and every year I have to pony up at immigration and do the song and dance with all the paperwork and the money.

 

This is hardly reciprocity  and for Thailand to  conitnue forcing married applicants to show the money each year is a violation of the Thai Constitution and the Universal Declaration.   You show it once- reconfirm it in 2 years- then get your Permanet residence.

 

For those that do not have the 400K to place in the bank- they should be allowed to obtain the Non O to visit and live with wife and children without restriction. Obviously- they must have a place to stay and income or they couldn;t live and exist. Many wives work- they have income to show- many have land- they have assets.

 

After almost 45 years of marriage to a Thai- I  want reciprocity  not more restrictions  that cause a husband and wife issues of being able to live together.

 

 

 

[doctorbailey]

We have 2 camps here. Those that know and live here permanently or semi-permanently on a Non-O multi-entry marriage visa and those that don't or don't know what is valid. The visa is valid 1 year and requires an exit every 90 days or an extension every 60 days. You can get about 17 months out of the visa to visit the wife and enter and exit as many times as you like. There is no stipulation beyond that on the visa or in Thai language immigration law regarding entering and exiting. You should not read into anything extra as it is not law. It does not say that one should obtain an extension of stay nor does it say that the intent is for one to obtain an extension of stay. The other requirements listed are for obtaining the visa... There is no word for Free in Thai and the words "Intent or Intention" that some posters have used many times on this forum are not used in Thai law and are extremely vague words at best in the already vague Thai language. I have observed lots of changes in Thai laws over the years and I can say some have been good, some predictable, but most not - which is probably why most Thais and many of us try to live by a sensible civil standard given our personal socioeconomic station in life and get on with our lives.

 

I, and many others on this forum have tried to obtain extensions of stay and have been refused, extorted or attempted to be extorted for 20K+ routinely. Additionally, we have had to put up with an extreme invasion of privacy and umpteen trips to immigration for another/other unnecessary and potentially very difficult to obtain or impossible to obtain document(s) (legalized, translated, and then Thai MFA stamped documents) for no reason other than to please a corrupt and inept IO. Many of us choose the path of least resistance such as going out of the country anonymously and legally every 90-150 days. Another thing - anyone intelligent probably doesn't want a random house visit by any Thai official unless you know them well in a good way and it is for a casual and mutual beer or coffee. By the way, they also often ask for fuel money and tea money further changing the equation. This is all part of their historic Sakdina system.

 

I have used the land crossings into Laos and Myanmar with success for a number of years. I was extorted once at Poi Phet and had to pay as the wife and kids were waiting on the Thai side and I was not interested in staying overnight in a casino hotel which was their new thing at the time many years ago. It was 500 baht on the Cambodian side to get the exit visa and 1000 baht on the Thai side - no huge deal overall but 2 weeks salary for normal Thai people and crazy money for Cambodia and made me not happy and taught me to avoid the place. I have been fleeced on other Cambodian and Malaysian borders requiring an overnight or a substantial donation. If you know and you are prepared to stay overnight it is OK but when caught off guard it is a major hassle and could randomly become a life event - furious wife, kids waiting, stolen vehicle, lost job, out of money, etc...

 

Most of us on this forum are likely whatever Thais consider farangs. I know of several Lao nationals also using this border and they said something to my wife the other day that I did not completely understand and I decided it inappropriate to clarify in public in front of a mixed group with many Thais - some potentially unsympathetic. They then invited my wife who is a close friend and from Isaan to go with them to Savannakhet for a holiday. They used to use this particular Ban Pakard / Ban Puggard / Pailin border so there is more to this space than just us farangs... Now this is full circle in my head.

 

Overall, the OP has identified another corrupt play on some of us and I thank him for raising it and allowing those of us here to plan more carefully, carry an overnight bag, chose another crossing, or take a flight. And remember it is always about the money...

[Kalasin Jo]

7 hours ago, jimn said:

Thank you for your confrontational post in an amicable discussion I was having with the OP. As it happens I disagree with your comments. The Non O based on marriage is not designed for someone living in Thailand with his wife and family. The clue here is that it cannot be obtained within but only outside Thailand. It is designed for someone visiting the wife and family not living here full time, I think the OP is aware of that. The correct way to live here with wife and family full time is an extension of stay based on marriage. Now I have no proof just an opinion, but I fully expect the multi entry Non O to be ceased at some point. 

Why should it be ceased? As others have stated it gives multi entries of up to 90 days each during its validity. For someone who does not live in Thailand but has family here and visits frequently it seems to be the perfect and quite correct vehicle. Border bouncing the same day, even if everyone including Thai immigration has been turning a blind eye to it for decades is not what it is for. But the OP being asked to cough up 2000 baht off the books for that blind eye is indeed a flagrant case of tea money to make it happen. The OP should have been allowed to do it, as he was, but warned never again.

 

A night or two out is not very hard. For example an EU Schengen visas can also allow multi entries but but once you have used up 90 days you cannot return for a further 90 days to any EU country. That is hard!

[Thaidream]

24 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Refusing visas and entries to the kingdom isn't restricting spouses from seeing each other.

 

The Thai is free to leave and stay with their spouse in another country.

Why should a Thai person have to leave their own country; sell their home; pull their children out of school to see their husband and live together.

 

You might want to read Article 16 of the UN Declaration of Rights to which Thailand is a signatory and review the Thai Constitution.

[Suradit69]

10 hours ago, bbi1 said:

You should go and report your case to the national and international press of immigration officers asking for bribes via extortion. Plus posting it all over social media and getting people to share this. That way the whole world finds out about the corruption and maybe some action will get taken when enough people post their stories.

I'm sure there's a burning interest in the international media for stories about expats staying in Thailand for years on multi entry visas and who do border bounces every 90 days.

 

Even if it raised any interest, the obvious solution would be to stop multi entry visas being issued altogether in neighboring countries or just deny repeated entry to people who appear to be gaming the system.

 

Corruption exists everywhere in the world and wide-eyed revelations of its existence generally dont have a positive effect. If anything it results in more punitive treatment in the form of collective punishment for people who benefit from rule bending.

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

Are you talking about an extension of stay based on marriage or a non O marriage visa? The non O visa based on marriage can either be a SE, valid for 90 days which only allows one single entry into Thailand or  ME which is valid for one year and allows multiple entries during that year .....but... each entry into Thailand cannot exceed 90 days. So, even with a ME non O visa you must do a border run every 90 days.

 

An extension of stay based on marriage allows you to remain in Thailand for one year without having to leave the country, but you must still report your current address to your local immigration office every 90 days.

 

Wow! I didn't know there are 3 types of visas based on marriage, I've always thought there is only one type.

 

So the first two are actually called marriage visa and not tourist visa?

[Suradit69]

30 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Why should a Thai person have to leave their own country; sell their home; pull their children out of school to see their husband and live together.

 

You might want to read Article 16 of the UN Declaration of Rights to which Thailand is a signatory and review the Thai Constitution.

A  bit overboard and an hysterical reaction to something that can be easily resolved by using an extension of stay.

 

The O/P said he didn't feel like getting an annual extension. I doubt that getting an extension of stay, which is used by most farang with Thai spouses, is so onerous that it will merit a special session of the UN for human rights violation.

 

The choice to do multi entry visas for years is his. He may feel inconvenienced if he did extensions of stay, but it doesn't oblige anyone to sell houses or to deny children an education or any of the nonsense you mentioned.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Suradit69

[Russell17au]

12 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Wow! I didn't know there are 3 types of visas based on marriage, I've always thought there is only one type.

 

So the first two are actually called marriage visa and not tourist visa?

It just goes to show that you thought wrong. There are 90 day Non-Imm "O" visa which is only valid for 90 days from date of application and then you can apply for an extension based on retirement or based on marriage then there is the Non-Imm "O" multi entry marriage visa which is valid for 1 year from date of application

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

It just goes to show that you thought wrong. There are 90 day Non-Imm "O" visa which is only valid for 90 days from date of application and then you can apply for an extension based on retirement or based on marriage then there is the Non-Imm "O" multi entry marriage visa which is valid for 1 year from date of application

Let me guess.

 

There is no financial requirement for non-O multiple entry visa other than the 1900 baht fee.

 

Whereas a 1 year extension would require applicant to deposit 400,000 baht in the bank.

 

That's why the OP didn't choose the second option???

[emptypockets]

2 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Let me guess.

 

There is no financial requirement for non-O multiple entry visa other than the 1900 baht fee.

 

Whereas a 1 year extension would require applicant to deposit 400,000 baht in the bank.

 

That's why the OP didn't choose the second option???

5000 baht at Savannakhet

[Max69xl]

16 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I was always a bit confused why having a O visa, people were still making 90 day border runs. I just assumed they could and would do one year extensions, similar to O visa holders that do retirement extensions but don't make 90 day border runs.  Reading some of the posts above, I think I now understand.

 

 

Loads of people on ME 90 days Non-O Visas doesn't meet the requirements for a Non-O Visa with annual extensions.