Extension to stay Chiangmai Immigration

[Grumpy Old Man]

I would like to share my experience at Chiangmai Immigration on Monday 27th January for submitting my documents for my “Extension to stay based on marriage to a Thai National” or Marriage Visa.

 

This is my fourth “Marriage Visa” and every time the procedure and required documents have been different so I expected no different this time; my wife is meticulous with document preparation and presentation so I was hopeful there wasn’t going to be much wrong.   

 

We arrived at 08:30Hrs and the queue to get a queue number was out the door and half way across the car park; it took ninety minutes just to get in the front door.

 

Behold the procedure has changed again, outside the front door there is now a desk manned by “Immigration Assistants” who advise you on document changes Etc. The front reception desk is now pre checking / clearing before you get issued with a queue number, at this point we are advised that the “Ordnance Survey” quality map of our home and surrounding area wasn’t correct because it wasn’t on “Chiangmai Immigration” headed paper, we had to leave the queue and draw a new home area map on “Chiangmai Immigration” headed paper; the map produced at this stage a five year old could have done better but it’s now on the required paper.

 

Finally getting a queue number approximately 11:30Hrs the normal wait starts; all “Long stay Visa” are now being processed at one of the four front Officer desks L3 - L6.

 

Over the Public Address system you are repeatedly advised to wait somewhere else if your number is not imminent or use the QR code queue number tracking application to track you position in the queue; I tried the queue number tracking application but I was told the application usage had expired.

 

On getting to the Immigration Officer dealing with my document submission he was excellent and went through his process in a professional manner, firstly producing another two A4 documents that we needed to complete, one by myself acknowledging I understand the penalties for overstaying my Visa and working without a work permit and the other by my wife confirming she’s still allowing me to live on her land.

 

I was challenged over my annual Thai bank account activity because they wanted to see a whole years activity, I confirmed the is only one payment into this account every year and that is to get the booked updated on the morning of my Visa application, I was asked about other Thai bank accounts and how much I have at this point my wife advised the Officer “Not required information”

 

After the usual multiple signatures, stamps and the 1900 Fee I am “Under Consideration” until the 14th March I guess I’ll know if I have a new Visa on the 14th of March !

 

From arriving at the Thai Immigration Office Chiangmai to walking out the door with my “Under Consideration” stamp in my passport just under five hours. . . . . . . 

[cnxgary]

So.... in other words are you saying that a hand drawn map showing where you reside is no longer acceptable unless the map is drawn on paper issued by the immigration dept.? This paper is available where?

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

I am “Under Consideration” until the 14th March

I thought it was 30 days from date of application -- or is it 30 days from the expiration of your current extension?

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, JimGant said:

I thought it was 30 days from date of application -- or is it 30 days from the expiration of your current extension?

That depends upon the office where the application is done. 

At a many it is from the date the current permit to stay ends.

[Grumpy Old Man]

3 hours ago, cnxgary said:

So.... in other words are you saying that a hand drawn map showing where you reside is no longer acceptable unless the map is drawn on paper issued by the immigration dept.? This paper is available where?

Correct, any quality of map is accepted if it’s on the Immigration Office issued paperwork / document 

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

...Over the Public Address system you are repeatedly advised to...use the QR code queue number tracking application to track you position in the queue; I tried the queue number tracking application but I was told the application usage had expired...

 

Thailand 4.0 at its best, if it had worked.

[cnxgary]

Other than the map drawn on Imm. stationary what else did you need to show? All Imm. Dept. have there own requirements did you for example have to produce pictures of you and wife or did Imm. want witnesses present? Did you have to have the bank book updated showing a update on the day of your application? Did you have to show a police clearance or medical clearance letter?

[stephenterry]

Next time - if there is a next time - use a visa agent. It took me precisely 3 minutes to get my picture taken and my passport returned updated. Yes, it cost me 8k, but IMO, messing around in a noisy cattle pen for hours on end, getting the third degree from an IMM Officer, and having to produce more and more documents is not my style.

 

BTW - mine was based on income, and that's another story with a stack of financial hurdles to manage.

My one light moment was that the most-helpful staff in Bangkok bank also considered that IMM are way off the planet here in CM with their requirement documentation. A whole year's bank transactions? Pages of docs. Do me a favour, pal and get real.

[SoonOh]

Never Use AGENT. Use agent fee to buy masks and distribute free off charge while waiting to see immigration officer

Make Immigration loose face.

 

[Jaxxper]

21 hours ago, cnxgary said:

So.... in other words are you saying that a hand drawn map showing where you reside is no longer acceptable unless the map is drawn on paper issued by the immigration dept.? This paper is available where?

At immigration I guess....!!!!

[448glb]

My experience was completely the opposite, I paid a fee for my marriage visa which I consider small and was in and out in 15 minutes. Had my money in for seven days, the end. It just blows my mind that people can’t figure this out, it’s all who you know and I would rather spend a few hundred dollars a year and not have these hassles and stories.

[AlQaholic]

There is a very distinct difference between a "Visa" and an "Extension of stay"...

Edited January 30, 2020 by AlQaholic

[joebrown]

31 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

There is a very distinct difference between a "Visa" and an "Extension of stay"...

OMG... not again!  If the poster is happy with his 'Visa' or whatever, why not leave him to carry on in ignorant bliss?

[CM Dad]

I have never paid an agent.  I have always done all of my visa paperwork preparation myself.  I have lived in CM for more than thirty years.  For most of those years, I had a Non- B work visa, and I worked and paid taxes.  When I retired, I changed to a Non-O visa based on marriage.  It was an easy process and I continued to do all of the paperwork myself.  However, I had an issue in 2018 that I had never encountered.  Up until that time I had always used the income method since my income from abroad was more than the required amount.  I had been using the certification letter from the US Consulate in CM for which I honestly stated my income. As that route was beginning to be phased out, I asked Immigration what I could do to show proof of income and was told that my US bank statements showing all transactions would suffice because 100% of the withdrawals from my US account each month were made using my debit/credit card at ATMs here in CM - usually through the same bank and branch.  After printing out a full year's worth of detailed account activity, I was refused because my US account is in both my name and one of my sister's names.  All deposits to the account were listed as being for me and were made via direct deposit from the US government and all withdrawals made by me here.  After being grilled about why there was another name on my US account and explaining that it was because I had not been to the US for 14 years and I had set up the account with my sister so that she could handle my banking needs in my absence, such as getting new debit/credit cards issued and sent, I was asked "If she is your sister, why is her family name not the same as yours?"   I simply stated that she was married and used her husbands' name.  I then asked the IO, a man, if he had a wife and if she used his family name.  That question was met with silence.  In short, I was refused and told only 400,000 transferred from abroad would be accepted.  I was given a 60-day stamp to do that.  I had the transfer done and upon presenting proof of its completion, I was told that the IO did not believe it was my money because it came from an account with my sister's name on it.  I was told to verify where the money in my bank account came from.  I realized that it was pointless to even try and continue, so with that, I went to Laos, my first time out of Thailand in more than 14 years, and got a Non-O multiple-entry visa based on marriage and having a Thai family.  I do not blame the IO or Thai Immigration for what occurred in 2018.  I chalk it up to the frustration that those working at immigration were under at the time.  I am now going to extend that Non-O visa I got in January of last year, which is stamped to end in a month.  I plan to use an agent to handle everything.  The 8,000 baht fee to the agent will be far less than what I have spent in the past year going to Laos, then crossing the border for a one minute visit to Myanmar three times to get new 90-day stamps.  The fee will also be more than worth NOT having hassles or long waits at immigration.  I have been assured by immigration that there would now be no problem getting an extension because the money has remained in my account here for more than a year and they do not care where it came from, just that it is there.  Even with that assurance, I plan to use an agent for everything from now on.  Before any of you ask why I stay, let me simply say that I CHOSE to live in Thailand, a place that I am very fond of and prefer to live with my Thai family, whom I love very much.  If the payment of a few thousand baht per year make this easier, then I will simply pay it.  Life is too short, and I am now far too old, to deal with all of the new hoops one must now jump through when assistance is available - let the agent do the jumping.  I'm sorry about the length of this post, but the constant complaints from those who seem to want to live here, yet continually moan and complain about things they cannot change, have become quite tiring.  My only regret is that I now will have to begin again with a new home visit even though I have lived in the same place for more than twenty years.  I will smile and make sure I have cookies and something to drink on hand.

[Burma Bill]

What a load of bureaucracy from the Immigration Office and so different compared to nearly 20 years ago. This is why I shall be leaving Thailand in 2 weeks time to continue my retirement in "stress free" (in my opinion) Cambodia. Another account will be closed with Bangkok Bank.

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, CM Dad said:

I have never paid an agent.  I have always done all of my visa paperwork preparation myself.  I have lived in CM for more than thirty years.  For most of those years, I had a Non- B work visa, and I worked and paid taxes.  When I retired, I changed to a Non-O visa based on marriage.  It was an easy process and I continued to do all of the paperwork myself.  However, I had an issue in 2018 that I had never encountered.  Up until that time I had always used the income method since my income from abroad was more than the required amount.  I had been using the certification letter from the US Consulate in CM for which I honestly stated my income. As that route was beginning to be phased out, I asked Immigration what I could do to show proof of income and was told that my US bank statements showing all transactions would suffice because 100% of the withdrawals from my US account each month were made using my debit/credit card at ATMs here in CM - usually through the same bank and branch.  After printing out a full year's worth of detailed account activity, I was refused because my US account is in both my name and one of my sister's names.  All deposits to the account were listed as being for me and were made via direct deposit from the US government and all withdrawals made by me here.  After being grilled about why there was another name on my US account and explaining that it was because I had not been to the US for 14 years and I had set up the account with my sister so that she could handle my banking needs in my absence, such as getting new debit/credit cards issued and sent, I was asked "If she is your sister, why is her family name not the same as yours?"   I simply stated that she was married and used her husbands' name.  I then asked the IO, a man, if he had a wife and if she used his family name.  That question was met with silence.  In short, I was refused and told only 400,000 transferred from abroad would be accepted.  I was given a 60-day stamp to do that.  I had the transfer done and upon presenting proof of its completion, I was told that the IO did not believe it was my money because it came from an account with my sister's name on it.  I was told to verify where the money in my bank account came from.  I realized that it was pointless to even try and continue, so with that, I went to Laos, my first time out of Thailand in more than 14 years, and got a Non-O multiple-entry visa based on marriage and having a Thai family.  I do not blame the IO or Thai Immigration for what occurred in 2018.  I chalk it up to the frustration that those working at immigration were under at the time.  I am now going to extend that Non-O visa I got in January of last year, which is stamped to end in a month.  I plan to use an agent to handle everything.  The 8,000 baht fee to the agent will be far less than what I have spent in the past year going to Laos, then crossing the border for a one minute visit to Myanmar three times to get new 90-day stamps.  The fee will also be more than worth NOT having hassles or long waits at immigration.  I have been assured by immigration that there would now be no problem getting an extension because the money has remained in my account here for more than a year and they do not care where it came from, just that it is there.  Even with that assurance, I plan to use an agent for everything from now on.  Before any of you ask why I stay, let me simply say that I CHOSE to live in Thailand, a place that I am very fond of and prefer to live with my Thai family, whom I love very much.  If the payment of a few thousand baht per year make this easier, then I will simply pay it.  Life is too short, and I am now far too old, to deal with all of the new hoops one must now jump through when assistance is available - let the agent do the jumping.  I'm sorry about the length of this post, but the constant complaints from those who seem to want to live here, yet continually moan and complain about things they cannot change, have become quite tiring.  My only regret is that I now will have to begin again with a new home visit even though I have lived in the same place for more than twenty years.  I will smile and make sure I have cookies and something to drink on hand.

I posted basically the same thing about my recent experience at CM Immigration but in less detail than you did.  I was surprised at some of the lame comments I received stating, I was making this up about how difficult immigration has made this process and was being less than truthful when describing the line just to get into the building being out into the parking lot as you experienced.  A few of these imbeciles even suggested I leave Thailand, lol.  Actually, I am ahead of them on that thought.

 

The CM Immigration building is obviously woefully inadequate to handle the amount of people who are summoned there daily.  It appears like immigration is either doing all they can to discourage us from living in Thailand or forcing us to use a visa agent.  I believe it is both.  Thank you so much for posting your recent CM immigration experience. 

[Timofe]

I got my “under consideration for 30 days” marriage extension at Chiangmai yesterday.  I paid an agent 7900 baht (this includes the 1900 baht fee) and it was well worth it.  We were in and out in about 30 minutes; the immigration officers were friendly. My hand drawn map was not on Immigration Police stationery.  

[BritManToo]

On 1/29/2020 at 11:33 AM, Grumpy Old Man said:

I was challenged over my annual Thai bank account activity because they wanted to see a whole years activity, I confirmed the is only one payment into this account every year and that is to get the booked updated on the morning of my Visa application, I was asked about other Thai bank accounts and how much I have at this point my wife advised the Officer “Not required information”

Good for your wife!

[Gweiloman]

59 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I posted basically the same thing about my recent experience at CM Immigration but in less detail than you did.  I was surprised at some of the lame comments I received stating, I was making this up about how difficult immigration has made this process and was being less than truthful when describing the line just to get into the building being out into the parking lot as you experienced.  A few of these imbeciles even suggested I leave Thailand, lol.  Actually, I am ahead of them on that thought.

 

The CM Immigration building is obviously woefully inadequate to handle the amount of people who are summoned there daily.  It appears like immigration is either doing all they can to discourage us from living in Thailand or forcing us to use a visa agent.  I believe it is both.  Thank you so much for posting your recent CM immigration experience. 

I agree with the part that I have highlighted in bold. It is completely logical. 

I would not be surprised that immigration monitors TV. They can read for themselves what the majority of farangs thinks about them, their country, their women and their government. The natural response would be to get rid of farangs. The best way to do this without raising stink internationally is to create more and more hurdles to make it progressively more difficult, especially for what they consider undesirables (no money in country as an example) to continue staying here. 

 

Many expats seem to think that they are crucial for the Thai economy. This is laughable at best. No official is going to be concerned that a family in Isaan is going to struggle just because the farang ATM leaves. There are thousands if not millions of Thai families that do very well without any farang intervention in their lives. 
 

Millions of tourists visit Thailand every year and leave happy and plan their next trip. This is my experience with all the visitors I receive, including my own family members. These are the kind of people that any country welcomes. 
 

So for those that has had enough, I’m sure that immigration wishes them a Bon voyage whilst expediting their departure. 

[Grumpy Old Man]

On 1/30/2020 at 8:17 AM, cnxgary said:

Other than the map drawn on Imm. stationary what else did you need to show? All Imm. Dept. have there own requirements did you for example have to produce pictures of you and wife or did Imm. want witnesses present? Did you have to have the bank book updated showing a update on the day of your application? Did you have to show a police clearance or medical clearance letter?

We had to have four photos of my wife and myself at our home one including the house number.

 

No witnesses of any sort.

 

I update my bank book on the morning of the application and also received a letter from my bank with required financial information.

 

No Police or medical letter required or requested at Chiangmai Immigration Office. 

[AussieBob18]

Used to live in CM - very sad to see it has gone so bad to Expats - they used to be very helpful - and clearly the whole thing is making many Expats leave.  We visited Thailand recently and the number of Expats has deceased - as has the number of Tourists.  Feel bad for those in the OP's situation with family etc. Hopefully the health insurance scam will not be applied to Marriage Visa and Extensions, but I fear it is coming and with it more problems for older Expats with Thai families.

[gk10002000]

So 8,000 baht = ~$266 USD at 30baht/usd.   Nothing wrong and I understand using an agent for convenience.  But I think one has to wonder how many Immigration officials are allied with some visa agents and deliberately make things difficult so people are driven to use an agent and the IOs get a kickback or percentage.  As for paperwork and burearacracy, the movie Brazil with the Monty Python guys in it comes to mind.

Edited January 31, 2020 by gk10002000

[Curt1591]

We visited Chang Wattana yesterday. We were in and out in just over 2 hours, including getting my bank confirmation letter at the onsite Bangkok Bank. Piece of cake!

[CMNightRider]

12 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

We visited Chang Wattana yesterday. We were in and out in just over 2 hours, including getting my bank confirmation letter at the onsite Bangkok Bank. Piece of cake!

Unlike Chang Wattana, reporting to CM Immigration is no piece of cake.  I believe it could be better described as some sort of torture. ????