Cocktail of flu, HIV drugs appears to help fight coronavirus: Thai doctors

[metisdead]

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[NightSky]

4 minutes ago, Oxx said:

All this ill-informed negativity towards Thai doctors.

 

What the doctors have tried is absolutely logical.  The virus is an RNA virus (as is the HIV virus), and as such, to replicate the viruses are dependent upon reverse transcriptase (an enzyme which creates DNA from RNA).  Drugs which block reverse transcriptase prevent virus replication.  This works well to stop HIV.  It could be expected to do the same for coronaviruses.

Thank you for an excellent post 

[steven100]

Seems China has another outbreak of bird flu :

https://www.9news.com.au/world/china-bird-flu-outbreak-government-orders-poultry-slaughter-world-news/b6d1fbbd-6365-44a8-8359-eb51f4ec139a

 

 

[steven100]

8 minutes ago, Oxx said:

All this ill-informed negativity towards Thai doctors.

 

What the doctors have tried is absolutely logical.  The virus is an RNA virus (as is the HIV virus), and as such, to replicate the viruses are dependent upon reverse transcriptase (an enzyme which creates DNA from RNA).  Drugs which block reverse transcriptase prevent virus replication.  This works well to stop HIV.  It could be expected to do the same for coronaviruses.

thank you Dr Oxx ...   very well said.

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

Woooops, maybe one got away?

[justin case]

Thailand did it again, after CANCER, AIDS, HIV, EBOLA, they now cured CORONA

 

what about follow up of these patients and the cocktail ?

 

maybe they recover from "this" and die in a few weeks from what those other drugs did/are doing as side effects... 

 

but same as road deaths, if they don't die on the spot, they just don't count in the statistics

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by justin case

[tomauasia]

5 hours ago, dcnx said:

The Chinese announced this a week ago. It’s not news. Thai propaganda, per usual. Cure incoming.

They talk <deleted>

[Artisi]

11 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Woooops, maybe one got away?

Flew the nest? 

[Levanter]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I was puzzled as to as to why doctors would use HIV drugs?

The HIV drugs in question act against the HIV protease, a viral protein important in replication. During the SARS-CoV outbreak, people tested a number of existing drugs and found that the ritonavir/lopinavir combination appeared to improve patient outcome. Mechanistically speaking, people studying the structure of the coronavirus protease found that there are areas that look fairly similar and it seems like the drugs can bind it as well.

 

27 minutes ago, Oxx said:

All this ill-informed negativity towards Thai doctors.

 

What the doctors have tried is absolutely logical.  The virus is an RNA virus (as is the HIV virus), and as such, to replicate the viruses are dependent upon reverse transcriptase (an enzyme which creates DNA from RNA).  Drugs which block reverse transcriptase prevent virus replication.  This works well to stop HIV.  It could be expected to do the same for coronaviruses.

This is incorrect: only retroviruses, such as HIV, have reverse transcriptase. Other RNA viruses do not pass through a DNA phase, and therefore do not have it. The drugs being used also target a different protein, the viral protease.

 

Regarding the use of oseltamivir (flu drug), the Chinese doctors used it because it is also flu season and they were treating the symptoms before diagnosis of the viral agent (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext). The drug targets a very specific function of the flu virus (neuraminidase activity) which is not found in coronaviruses, and is unlikely to be contributing much to the treatment of nCoV. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Levanter
Clarified role of oseltamivir

[tomauasia]

1 hour ago, Yadon Toploy said:

I'll put this one on the shelf with the all the other Thai cures for ebola, AIDS, SARS and cancer.

Hubba Bubba..

[SupermarineS6B]

Zithromax.....Used for everything from pox to HIV.......   It's probably this with some greens and yellows, pinks and blues.......... 

[Yadon Toploy]

12 minutes ago, Levanter said:

The HIV drugs in question act against the HIV protease, a viral protein important in replication. During the SARS-CoV outbreak, people tested a number of existing drugs and found that the ritonavir/lopinavir combination appeared to improve patient outcome. Mechanistically speaking, people studying the structure of the coronavirus protease found that there are areas that look fairly similar and it seems like the drugs can bind it as well.

 

This is incorrect: only retroviruses, such as HIV, have reverse transcriptase. Other RNA viruses do not pass through a DNA phase, and therefore do not have it. The drugs being used also target a different protein, the viral protease.

 

Regarding the use of oseltamivir (flu drug), the Chinese doctors used it because it is also flu season and they were treating the symptoms before diagnosis of the viral agent (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext). The drug targets a very specific function of the flu virus (neuraminidase activity) which is not found in coronaviruses, and is unlikely to be contributing much to the treatment of nCoV. 

Thank you for an excellent post 

[rabas]

HIV drugs are a good guess for treating RNA viruses as Oxx amd others have mentioned.  HIV drugs and everything but the kitchen sink were thrown at SARS patients during the SARS outbreak but nothing was conclusive. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/471340

 

So Thai doctors trying drug cocktails is exactly how medicine works, more power to them. I think the novel thing they tried was adding Tamilful (Oseltamivir) to the mix which some have reasoned would not have much effect. OTH, one patient is not a big result either.

 

Ah, just read the above post, and yes, it is possible the Thai patient was suffering from type A flu as well. You can get 2 things at the same time. One patient is not enough.

 

I was never impressed with Tamiful until it saved me from the A-H1N1 flu last year. Now I'm impressed but it is for flu not corona viruses.

Edited February 3, 2020 by rabas

[car720]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Biologists at the Indian Institute of Technology issued a paper claiming that the virus has “HIV insertions” in it’s makeup that are unlikely to be “fortuitous”. In other words, more by design than luck. Suggesting that it is a virus made in the lab. It’s not peer reviewed and may well be consistent with Bat coronavirus ... and what they are hinting at may be wrong. There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

 

I was puzzled as to as to why doctors would use HIV drugs?

the New York Times says that the Americans are doing it too.

[spiekerjozef]

So tiger balm didn't help?

[bbi1]

A man wears a mask to prevent the spread of the new coronavirus as he walks near the Grand Palace at Bangkok, Thailand February 2, 2020. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun

So, if that Thai man doesn't have coronavirus can he sue Reuters for defamation for claiming that he has it? Maybe he wasn't even wearing it for that reason.

[herwin1234]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Can farangs find anything positive about Thailand? Nowhere did they say it was a cure , and used the qualifier "seems too" , What is so bad about that? It seems pretty reasonable to me that they would report their experience so far, but make no claims other than what the saw so far.

All this negativity is really annoying. 

Doctors are trying to find a cure, and being transparant they report patients seem to respond well but stress its not a cure.  Hardworking Thai medical profesionals, doing their best to fight this disease, unfairly trashed again by the feebleminded cynical farangs.  What a sad pathetic bunch of ppl. 

[spiekerjozef]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

Pretty sure there was human error involved and it came from that virology institute and not the food market.

Of course they never gonna admit that.

[rabas]

2 minutes ago, car720 said:

the New York Times says that the Americans are doing it too.

The Wuhan lab also includes a military research lab. Six month ago the US warned that the Chinese may be carrying out military biological research forbidden under current international bio-weapons treaties, which the Chinese have also signed.

 

The US has no need to build SARS like bio-weapons.  Bwa ha ha, they have recreated the original Spanish flu and have 10 bottles of it at the CDC.

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I find that 48 hours from total infection to negative with HIV medical is fanciful- HIV anti-virals work fast but not 48 hours fast !! And is negative simply undetecable ? as opposed to negative

 

 

 

 

Undetectable means it's  also tremendously less contagious and harmful. If the viral count in blood goes down then it gives the immune system more time to act. I agree that 48 hours seems too rapid but it may be that the viral load was light to begin with. 

 

In fact our bodies are hosts to a wide variety of viruses that we live with peacefully. Some microbes are actually vital necessities for our biome and considered symbiotic. None of us are virus-free. We are 'infected' daily by countless microbes. 

 

So in a practical sense undetectable is equivalent to uninfected. A compromised immune system will succumb to any opportunistic microbe extant, and there are many available. 

 

Keep in mind that our miracle vaccines don't kill anything. They simply keep our immune systems on alert for particular viruses so the infection is fought without us even being aware we are infected, much less becoming contagious. 

 

That said, it is wise to avoid infection if you can. Awareness of a threat is the first step in avoiding it.

 

I avoid traveling the roads in Thailand at night or during heavy traffic times. ????

Likewise, I avoid any places crowded with people and expat bars. Bad moods and negative dialog can also be infectious and dangerous to mental health. ????

[SiSePuede419]

"Cocktail of flu, HIV drugs appears to help fight coronavirus: Thai doctors"

 

Buckets?!?!? ????

 

And if you are depressed and anxious about getting so-called Corona Beer Virus a mushroom shake* could help you feel better for up to a year.

One dose of 'magic mushroom' drug reduces anxiety and depression in cancer patients,

source: Research study

 

* Personally, I would only trust pure mushrooms that I personally boil in a tea.  No telling what they "goose up" that shake with down on the islands, mon ????

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by SiSePuede419

[CM Dad]

4 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Grabbing at straws I guees and as they are anti retro virals>> give anything a go.

 

Drugs used to treat HIV make sense because they are meant to improve and boost the immune system.

[FarFlungFalang]

35 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Flew the nest? 

Don't you mean "One flew over the cuckoo's nest"?Great movie.

Edited February 3, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[SiSePuede419]

8 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

Drugs used to treat HIV make sense because they are meant to improve and boost the immune system.

 

8 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

 

So would eating Superfoods like riceberry, green tea, Chinese broccoli, berries, pumpkin and flax seeds; doing yoga, watching comedies, walking in the sunshine on the beach before 10am, getting a good night's sleep, not drinking multiple Changs, quiting smoking cigarettes, etc with a lot less side effects than the drug cocktail.

 

But try getting bed-ridden patients on their death beds to do all that? 

 

Impossible! ????

Edited February 3, 2020 by SiSePuede419

[rabas]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Biologists at the Indian Institute of Technology issued a paper claiming that the virus has “HIV insertions” in it’s makeup that are unlikely to be “fortuitous”. In other words, more by design than luck. Suggesting that it is a virus made in the lab. It’s not peer reviewed and may well be consistent with Bat coronavirus ... and what they are hinting at may be wrong. There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

The Indian suggestion it was manufactured because it's similar to HIV has been been heavily criticized.

 

What they did. They searched the BLAST database and found a small region similar to HIV.

 

What they did wrong. They did not search with other, natural bat like viruses. If they had, they would have seen that other bat viruses also match some HIV regions, so it was all natural.

Edited February 3, 2020 by rabas

[Orton Rd]

All natural apart from eating the bats!

[Artisi]

10 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Don't you mean "One flew over the cuckoo's nest"?Great movie.

Yep, great movie - however, living in Thailand desensitises you to "One flew over....." 

[AJS150654]

I am a Farang living in Thailand and totally agree with the post by Sirineou about negativity being shown by Farangs. I believe the Thai's are in a Catch 22 situation, report nothing and be ridiculed or pass on something positive and still be ridiculed. I say well done Thailand for your efforts to control this disease, in a country with such a large number of Chinese tourists. I really think it's time all those negative and sarcastic Farang's buttoned their lips, or leave ????

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, AJS150654 said:

I am a Farang living in Thailand and totally agree with the post by Sirineou about negativity being shown by Farangs. I believe the Thai's are in a Catch 22 situation, report nothing and be ridiculed or pass on something positive and still be ridiculed. I say well done Thailand for your efforts to control this disease, in a country with such a large number of Chinese tourists. I really think it's time all those negative and sarcastic Farang's buttoned their lips, or leave ????

I completely agree. You would never, ever find, say, Chinese forums in Western countries making comments criticising their host country or its citizens, would you?

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Can farangs find anything positive about Thailand? Nowhere did they say it was a cure , and used the qualifier "seems too" , What is so bad about that? It seems pretty reasonable to me that they would report their experience so far, but make no claims other than what the saw so far.

All this negativity is really annoying. 

Unscientific medical testing based on "seems to" has no merit and likely violates doctor ethics. Were patients even asked to be tested with experimental treatment and informed of potential risks?