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Anyone actually succeeded in O-A to O (retirement) conversion trip recently?


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37 minutes ago, saengd said:

But yes, my present extension (now based on marriage) emanates from my long standing O-A visa (2004).

No I do not have a new O visa stamped in my passport.

Thank you. That clarifies that, at least at CM, my next extension can be a marriage extension emanating from my long ago expired Non Imm O-A visa.

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1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Thank you. That clarifies that, at least at CM, my next extension can be a marriage extension emanating from my long ago expired Non Imm O-A visa.

I made the change using Assist Thaivisa. When I first asked the question was it possible the response was that Immi. would need to see my passport before they could answer the question, why I've no idea. A couple of days later the answer came back that Immi. had said OK to my request, in the meantime I was busy formulating a Plan B, just in case.  All of that told me this is not a standard request which perhaps they are not obliged to action every time (that's my interpretation of what was said rather than anything official). Good luck whatever you do, if I can help further please ask or PM.

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11 minutes ago, saengd said:

I made the change using Assist Thaivisa. When I first asked the question was it possible the response was that Immi. would need to see my passport before they could answer the question, why I've no idea. A couple of days later the answer came back that Immi. had said OK to my request, in the meantime I was busy formulating a Plan B, just in case.  All of that told me this is not a standard request which perhaps they are not obliged to action every time (that's my interpretation of what was said rather than anything official). Good luck whatever you do, if I can help further please ask or PM.

Thanx. If I remember correctly, you applied for the marriage extension several months before your then current extension based on retirement (off the same Non Imm O-A visa) expired. Rationale: Get it done before they move the goal posts. Maybe that's the way to go......

...... or maybe if I wait long enough, they'll finally accept Tricare.

Sigh.

Edited by JimGant
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On 2/3/2020 at 9:43 PM, Peter Denis said:

OP > I have PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap outlining all details/options on how to convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

To access your PM messages, click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged in to the Forum.

Peter, can you please send me your comprehensive road map. I see keep posting about this map in various threads.

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17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for sharing the info.

You write > Their plan is to go back in the last month of the 90 day Visa and apply for the full 12 mth Non-O Visa based on Marriage.

I presume that you mean that he will apply for a 1-year extension of stay at his local IO based on the 90-day Non Imm O - marriage Visa he got in Australia.

And that he already queried at KhonKaen IO and was confirmed that there will be no problem when applying for the extension (and obviously no health-insurance required as it is a Non O - marriage Visa).

 

I only wonder why he converted to a Non O Visa, because he could also have applied for an extension of his OA Visa for reason of MARRIAGE, and in that case there is also no need for health-insurance.

Or is Khon Kaen one of those rogue offices that incorrectly also insist on health-insurance when extending for reason of marriage? 

Yes - 1 year extension of non-O marriage.

Yes - they already visited KK IO before visiting Australia.

When they advised KK of the plan above that I outlined for him, they agreed that would definitely work.

I was so involved because I helped him get an O-A Retirement Visa years ago.

 

 

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18 hours ago, nightbird said:

Already had an OA and many extensions.

 

18 hours ago, nightbird said:

Were you converting from O-A based on retirement to O, to get around the insurance requirement? Or did you not already have O-A? Thanks.

he didn't convert anything, he binned his O-A (obtained in home country and requires insurance but no funds in Thailand) for an entirely new Type O which does require funds in Thailand.

 

There is a grey area obtaining a 12 month extension in Thailand based on an O-A - most here agree that it should not require insurance as "it does" require funds in a Thai bank account 

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16 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

I believe there are people out there, with an Extension based on marriage, granted out of a Non-O/A

 

But this doesn't mean that they were rightfully granted.  They all are based on an error

I believe it could be the other way around, ie some offices are incorrectly specifying the type of Non-Imm Visa in relation to the extension being applied for. If a Non-Imm-O  was a conversion from a Visa Waiver or TV Entry, well I believe you should apply for an Extension type matching the Non-Imm-O conversion qualifications... and also do it at the same office. 

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4 minutes ago, smedly said:

 

he didn't convert anything, he binned his O-A (obtained in home country and requires insurance but no funds in Thailand) for an entirely new Type O which does require funds in Thailand.

 

There is a grey area obtaining a 12 month extension in Thailand based on an O-A - most here agree that it should not require insurance as "it does" require funds in a Thai bank account 

You are correct, the vast majority of TVF members agree that an OA extension should not require insurance (as the extension does require funds in a thai bank-account, exactly same like the O - retirement extension which does not require health-insurance).

However, the PoliceOrder followed by the IOs DOES stipulate that health-insurance is required for an extension of stay based on your original OA Visa (when you are applying for reason of retirement).

Luckily there are several 'escape' routes from this bogus thai-approved health-insurance requirement.

- When married to a thai national > simply apply for an OA extension of stay for reason of marriage;

- Convert to a Non Imm O - retirement (or marriage) Visa, by exiting the country (necessary to kill your OA Visa) and then applying for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa in your home-country, neighboring country or at your local IO (the requirements differ).  In the last month of that 90-day Non Imm O Visa, you can then apply for an 1-year extension of stay at your local IO.

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I asked at my local:

 

"Thank you for contacting Phuket Immigration Volunteers.

 

You can easily switch from extension/retirement to extension/ marriage.
It doesn't matter whether the first visa was a Non-O or a Non-OA.

The switch is possible from both visa types.

The extension / marriage remains unaffected by the obligation to have health insurance, as no health insurance is required even if your first visa was a Non-OA"

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3 hours ago, david_je said:

Were you asked why you were giving up the O-A and converting? And did you need to show the 800,000 was transferred from abroad, and if so, how did you prove that?

Thanks.

Please read the thread first. Both these questions are answered.

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On 2/5/2020 at 2:18 PM, Peter Denis said:

So why the unnecessary steps to exit Thailand, apply for an O - marriage Visa and then extend it (unless the Rayong office for one reason or another refuses to extend OA Visas for reason of marriage).

I do not read anything into what @sandrabbit has said that the German guy he was referring to actually did this! What appears to have happened is that he originally entered Thailand on an OA visa and in due course sought annual extensions for retirement up until this year when he switched to marriage so as to avoid the mandatory health insurance requirement. I somehow doubt whether an examination of this German guy's passport will actually reveal a recently-issued non-O visa!

 

Accordingly, Rayong Immigration are not, I think, in the same rogue category as their "pals" at Petchaburi are!

Edited by OJAS
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7 hours ago, OJAS said:

I do not read anything into what @sandrabbit has said that the German guy he was referring to actually did this! What appears to have happened is that he originally entered Thailand on an OA visa and in due course sought annual extensions for retirement up until this year when he switched to marriage so as to avoid the mandatory health insurance requirement. I somehow doubt whether an examination of this German guy's passport will actually reveal a recently-issued non-O visa!

 

Accordingly, Rayong Immigration are not, I think, in the same rogue category as their "pals" at Petchaburi are!

Hi OJAS, I re-read the @sandrabbit's posts and it is indeed not fully clear whether the guy he was referring to is now on an OA - marriage extension, or had to make the detour of exiting Thailand, applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - marriage Visa and then applying for a Non Imm O - marriage extension.

So if Rayong immigration did process his application for an OA extension but this time based on marriage (like the IO regulations explicitly allow), and did not require him to make the detour to switch to a Non Imm O Visa or insist on health-insurance also for his OA marriage extension, I sincerely apologize to them for having them labelled as a rogue office like the Petchabun or Nonthaburi offices.

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1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi OJAS, I re-read the @sandrabbit's posts and it is indeed not fully clear whether the guy he was referring to is now on an OA - marriage extension, or had to make the detour of exiting Thailand, applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - marriage Visa and then applying for a Non Imm O - marriage extension.

So if Rayong immigration did process his application for an OA extension but this time based on marriage (like the IO regulations explicitly allow), and did not require him to make the detour to switch to a Non Imm O Visa or insist on health-insurance also for his OA marriage extension, I sincerely apologize to them for having them labelled as a rogue office like the Petchabun or Nonthaburi offices.

IMHO this is all a graphic illustration of the perils of mixing visas up with extensions of stay (which, as @ubonjoe has, yet again, recently reminded us on this thread, are completely separate animals). In this particular instance @sandrabbit has, I feel, muddied the waters unnecessarily through an apparently dogged determination on his part to refer to both in the same breath!

Edited by OJAS
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Is it everyone's understanding that if you have a multiple-reentry with your O-A stay based on retirement and you want to convert to O at an overseas consulate, you can only do this after your stay has expired? No way to do before that, correct?

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1 hour ago, david_je said:

Is it everyone's understanding that if you have a multiple-reentry with your O-A stay based on retirement and you want to convert to O at an overseas consulate, you can only do this after your stay has expired? No way to do before that, correct?

Correct, but there is another option.

You cannot switch to another Visa, when the permission to stay from your OA Visa is still valid.

When the Visa validity has expired and you bought a multi-entry Re-Entry Permit which will keep your permission to stay 'alive' when exiting/re-entering Thailand, you actually made it difficult to 'kill' the OA Visa on which that permission to stay was based.

Thus you would have to wait till your permission to stay kept alive by the Re-entry Permit actually expired, before you can apply for another Visa at the foreign thai embassy/consulate.

So your understanding is correct.

However, when exiting Thailand and wanting to re-enter VisaExempt to apply for the Non Imm O Visa in-country, that can be done PROVIDING the remaining days of your Non Imm OA Visa are less than the 30 days you would get from your VisaExempt entry.

In order to avoid being stamped in again for the remaining days of the permission to stay the Non Imm OA Visa granted you and kept alive by the Re-Entry Permit (making it not possible to apply for another Visa), you would need to leave the VISA-number blank on the small TM6 arrival/departure card you need to fill in on re-entering Thailand.  In that case border-immigration will stamp you in VisaExempt for 30 days.  In case they remark that you still have a valid re-entry permit in your passport, the normal procedure would then be to ask you which entry you prefer, and then you opt for the 30 days VisaExempt.

 

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2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

However, when exiting Thailand and wanting to re-enter VisaExempt to apply for the Non Imm O Visa in-country, that can be done PROVIDING the remaining days of your Non Imm OA Visa are less than the 30 days you would get from your VisaExempt entry.

In order to avoid being stamped in again for the remaining days of the permission to stay the Non Imm OA Visa granted you and kept alive by the Re-Entry Permit (making it not possible to apply for another Visa), you would need to leave the VISA-number blank on the small TM6 arrival/departure card you need to fill in on re-entering Thailand.  In that case border-immigration will stamp you in VisaExempt for 30 days.  In case they remark that you still have a valid re-entry permit in your passport, the normal procedure would then be to ask you which entry you prefer, and then you opt for the 30 days VisaExempt.

 

That's good to know, thanks.

Would be great to hear from someone in same situation who's actually done this. Since visa exempt is for tourists, would you be questioned if you have still-valid O-A?

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1 hour ago, david_je said:

That's good to know, thanks.

Would be great to hear from someone in same situation who's actually done this. Since visa exempt is for tourists, would you be questioned if you have still-valid O-A?

VisaExempt entries are not limited to 'tourists'. 

Everybody entering Thailand has the choice to opt for a VisaExempt entry (when meeting the requirements) or for an entry with a valid Visa (or valid permission of stay granted on the basis of such Visa).

 

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On 2/7/2020 at 12:34 AM, OJAS said:

I do not read anything into what @sandrabbit has said that the German guy he was referring to actually did this! What appears to have happened is that he originally entered Thailand on an OA visa and in due course sought annual extensions for retirement up until this year when he switched to marriage so as to avoid the mandatory health insurance requirement. I somehow doubt whether an examination of this German guy's passport will actually reveal a recently-issued non-O visa!

 

Accordingly, Rayong Immigration are not, I think, in the same rogue category as their "pals" at Petchaburi are!

100% correct

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16 hours ago, OJAS said:

IMHO this is all a graphic illustration of the perils of mixing visas up with extensions of stay (which, as @ubonjoe has, yet again, recently reminded us on this thread, are completely separate animals). In this particular instance @sandrabbit has, I feel, muddied the waters unnecessarily through an apparently dogged determination on his part to refer to both in the same breath!

I did this because people keep referring to visa's and that's why I did visa/extension and it it doesn't take much to realise what I meant but I did state it was only approval to apply which looks like it's going through as he had the imm home visit as my wife went round to their house as witness again. And the reason I didn't mention him going out of the country was because he didn't need to, Ubon Joe didn't correct me so he obviously understood what I was trying to convey ...........

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14 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

VisaExempt entries are not limited to 'tourists'. 

I thought it was...

 

  1. The visit is strictly for tourism purposes.
  2. They must have a confirmed return ticket to show that they are flying out of Thailand within 30 days of entry, as appropriate. Open tickets do not qualify. Traveling over land out of Thailand by train, bus, etc to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia (including en route to Singapore), Myanmar, etc may be accepted as proof of exiting Thailand.

    You may be asked to show your flight ticket on entering Thailand. If you do not possess a flight ticket to show you will be exiting Thailand within 30 days of entry you will be most likely refused entry.

  3. It will also be necessary to prove that you have funds of at least 10,000 THB per person during your stay in Thailand.
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15 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

VisaExempt entries are not limited to 'tourists'. 

 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I thought it was...

 

  1. The visit is strictly for tourism purposes.
  2. They must have a confirmed return ticket to show that they are flying out of Thailand within 30 days of entry, as appropriate. Open tickets do not qualify. Traveling over land out of Thailand by train, bus, etc to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia (including en route to Singapore), Myanmar, etc may be accepted as proof of exiting Thailand.

    You may be asked to show your flight ticket on entering Thailand. If you do not possess a flight ticket to show you will be exiting Thailand within 30 days of entry you will be most likely refused entry.

  3. It will also be necessary to prove that you have funds of at least 10,000 THB per person during your stay in Thailand.

 

The reason I made my remark is that the poster sort of implied that it was not possible to enter Thailand on a VisaExempt entry with the purpose to apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa at your local IO.

For sure that is possible, and the VE-entry would in that case not be for 'tourism purposes'.

Most probably that tourism statement is a 'catch-all' to emphasize that you are not allowed to do work of any sort when staying in Thailand on a VisaExempt entry (even if you intend to switch to a Visa that would allow this).

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3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I thought it was...

 

  1. The visit is strictly for tourism purposes.
  2. They must have a confirmed return ticket to show that they are flying out of Thailand within 30 days of entry, as appropriate. Open tickets do not qualify. Traveling over land out of Thailand by train, bus, etc to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia (including en route to Singapore), Myanmar, etc may be accepted as proof of exiting Thailand.

    You may be asked to show your flight ticket on entering Thailand. If you do not possess a flight ticket to show you will be exiting Thailand within 30 days of entry you will be most likely refused entry.

  3. It will also be necessary to prove that you have funds of at least 10,000 THB per person during your stay in Thailand.

I noted that as well. So it would good to hear from anyone with actual recent experience who held O-A based on retirement and left country, came back before O-A stay expired and chose to enter visa exempt instead, with purpose of converting to Non-O at CW.

Come to think of it, even if you returned after O-A had already expired, could you be questioned about entering visa exempt (as tourist) and would need that ticket and funds on hand?

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23 minutes ago, david_je said:

I noted that as well. So it would good to hear from anyone with actual recent experience who held O-A based on retirement and left country, came back before O-A stay expired and chose to enter visa exempt instead, with purpose of converting to Non-O at CW.

Your permit to stay would of ended as soon as your left the country. Unless you had a valid re-entry permit their would be no reason for  immigration to deny entering the country visa exempt.

I have seen reports of people that have done it already.

23 minutes ago, david_je said:

Come to think of it, even if you returned after O-A had already expired, could you be questioned about entering visa exempt (as tourist) and would need that ticket and funds on hand?

You might need the ticket out of the country within 30 days to board a flight without a valid visa for entry. Not needed if entering at a land border crossing.

Immigration seldom asks to see the10k baht for a visa exempt entry.

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18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Your permit to stay would of ended as soon as your left the country. Unless you had a valid re-entry permit their would be no reason for  immigration to deny entering the country visa exempt.

I have seen reports of people that have done it already.

 

But I do have multiple re-entry with the O-A. And since we're talking here about whether it's possible to do this trip before O-A expired, the re-entries would still be valid when I returned.

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22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You might need the ticket out of the country within 30 days to board a flight without a valid visa for entry. Not needed if entering at a land border crossing.

Immigration seldom asks to see the10k baht for a visa exempt entry.

You mean if we make the trip for purpose of O-A to O conversion and return visa exempt by air, we should purchase air ticket out of country within 30 days just to show in case it's asked for, and then get the ticket refunded?

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2 minutes ago, david_je said:

But I do have multiple re-entry with the O-A. And since we're talking here about whether it's possible to do this trip before O-A expired, the re-entries would still be valid when I returned.

If your visa had already expired and you had a re-entry permit for a entry from it you would have to wait for it to expire or have less than 30 days remaining or immigration would insist on using it instead of doing a 30 day visa exempt entry.

If you still had valid OA visa you would have to use it for entry.

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