rooster59 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Iowa wins put Buttigieg, Sanders at centre of criticism at Democratic debate By James Oliphant and Michael Martina FILE PHOTO: Democratic presidential candidate and former South Bend, Indiana mayor Pete Buttigieg, speaks during a campaign event in Concord, New Hampshire, U.S., February 4, 2020. REUTERS/Brendan McDermid MANCHESTER, N.H. - Democratic presidential contenders Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg, the top finishers in Iowa's first nominating contest, faced a barrage of criticism on Friday from rivals who said they did not have what it takes to beat Republican Donald Trump in November. In a heated debate in New Hampshire just four days before the state's pivotal primary, their Democratic rivals questioned whether Sanders' democratic socialist views and Buttigieg's relative lack of experience and lack of support with African-Americans and Latinos made them too much of a risk for the Nov. 3 election. Sanders, 78, a U.S. senator and leader of the party's progressive wing, and Buttigieg, the 38-year-old former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, finished in a virtual dead heat in Iowa's first-in-the-nation caucuses earlier this week. Former Vice President Joe Biden, the one-time national front-runner who finished a disappointing fourth in Iowa, delivered his most aggressive performance yet, a sign of possible desperation as he looks to rebound. Biden said Trump would have an easy time ripping into Sanders in a general election campaign, and Sanders would drag down other Democratic candidates in federal and state races. "Bernie has labelled himself, not me, a democratic socialist. I think that’s the label that the president is going to lay on everyone running with Bernie if he is the nominee," Biden said. U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar, who finished a distant fifth in Iowa, said Sanders would not attract the kind of centrist voters Democrats need to win. "Donald Trump’s worst nightmare is a candidate who will bring people in from the middle," Klobuchar said at the eighth Democratic debate. "I think we need someone to head up this ticket that actually brings people with her instead of shutting them out." Sanders, who has called for a political revolution that will attract new voters, said "the way to beat Trump is by having the largest voter turnout in the history of this country." He said he could appeal to working class voters who have given up on the political process. Biden and Klobuchar also questioned whether Buttigieg had enough experience to face off with Trump. Buttigieg, who served two terms as mayor of South Bend, a city with a population of 100,000, said the Washington insider experience of some of his rivals was no longer what was needed, and it was time to "turn the page" on the old Washington politics. "It is easy to go after Washington, because that’s a popular thing to do," Klobuchar said, telling Buttigieg that "it’s popular to say and makes you look like a cool newcomer." 'I WILL PROBABLY TAKE A HIT' Historically, candidates who win the Iowa caucuses see a boost in New Hampshire, and two opinion polls released this week showed Buttigieg within striking distance of Sanders, who has consistently been atop the field in the state. Biden did not seem confident about how he would do. "This is a long race. I took a hit in Iowa, and I’ll probably take a hit here," he said. With controversy surrounding the Iowa caucuses - technical problems and inconsistencies delayed the results for days - New Hampshire's primary on Tuesday takes on added importance. Billionaire activist Tom Steyer, who has focused heavily on upcoming primaries in the more diverse states of Nevada and South Carolina, launched a lengthy discussion of race and noted the party's broad diversity - and the mostly white candidates on the stage aside from Andrew Yang, an Asian-American. He took a swipe at Buttigieg, saying he has not been able to show much appeal to the black and Latino voters who are crucial to a winning Democratic campaign. "Unless you can appeal to the diverse parts of the Democratic Party, including specifically the black community, including specifically Latinos, if you can’t do that, then we can’t beat Donald Trump in November," Steyer said. Buttigieg came under fire for his record on race in South Bend. When asked about an increase in arrests of blacks on marijuana-related charges, he said as mayor he targeted cases "when there was gun violence and gang violence." Asked if Buttigieg's answer was sufficient, U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren said: "No. You have to own up to the facts." Democratic rivals also had moments of unity - when the subject of Donald Trump came up. Biden criticized Trump's firing on Friday of Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the top Ukraine expert at the White House's National Security Council, two days after Trump was acquitted in his Senate impeachment trial. Vindman served as a star witness during the House of Representatives' impeachment proceedings. Biden said Trump "should be pinning a medal on Vindman and not Rush Limbaugh," a reference to the president’s decision to give the Presidential Medal of Freedom to the conservative radio host earlier this week. "Stand up and clap for Vindman," Biden said, encouraging a standing ovation in the debate hall. Klobuchar praised Republican U.S. Senator Mitt Romney and Democratic U.S. Senator Doug Jones of conservative Alabama for having the "courage" to vote to convict. Notably absent from the debate was Michael Bloomberg, a billionaire former New York mayor, who is not competing in New Hampshire but has been assembling a formidable operation in later voting states. He has been funding his own campaign and not taking donations, so he failed to meet the donations criteria for the debate. The Democratic National Committee dropped the donor requirement for the next debate in Nevada, however, possibly opening the door for Bloomberg. (Reporting by James Oliphant; Additional reporting by Michael Martina; Writing by John Whitesides; Editing by Soyoung Kim and Sonya Hepinstall) -- © Copyright Reuters 2020-02-08 Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking Thailand news and visa info 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 New Hampshire where they run a real election rather than those quaint barnhouse caucuses tends to not rubber stamp Iowa. Amy Klobuchar just overwhelmingly won the New Hampshire debate. So it's basically now or never for what would be a great choice. She doesn't need to win it but she needs to do very well. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Boon Mee Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 Amy Klobuchar is basically the same as senator from California who thought she'd be qualified as a presidential candidate. Both basically a couple of thug prosecuters. 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worgeordie Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, rooster59 said: faced a barrage of criticism on Friday from rivals who said they did not have what it takes to beat Republican Donald Trump in November. But they do ?,Mayor Pete,is a better choice than the old farts, but will him been gay have any effect,i am sure Trump would have plenty to say about him. regards worgeordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, worgeordie said: But they do ?,Mayor Pete,is a better choice than the old farts, but will him been gay have any effect,i am sure Trump would have plenty to say about him. regards worgeordie If Buttigeig is nominated I don't think 45 himself will directly attack him for being gay. Of course a lot of his bigoted anti-gay civil rights supporters will but those types generally won't vote for any democrat. I did once see 45 give some kind of weird airy fairy facial gesture when mentioning Buttigeig but that's more indirect. If nominated I don't think the gay thing will make or break him. It will help a little and hurt a little. A lot of people are excited by something new and different and an openly gay married president is certainly that. I think his weaknesses are largely about -- his youth his inexperience his appearance (he kind of does look like Alfred E. Neuman) being kind of too nerdy and intelligent for the audience (American voters) his failure to connect with African Americans To add he's not among my top choices (Klobuchar and Bloomberg are) but like most democrats ANY democrat that isn't 45 would be a huge improvement. There is the thing with Bernie bros though. I guess an unfortunately high percentage of them will stay home if Bernie isn't nominated, but on the other hand a lot of people will stay home or vote for 45 is he is. Decisions, decisions. Edited February 8, 2020 by Jingthing 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippaporn Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, worgeordie said: But they do ?,Mayor Pete,is a better choice than the old farts, but will him been gay have any effect,i am sure Trump would have plenty to say about him. regards worgeordie Being gay has become much more accepted over the last several decades. IMHO I don't think the acceptance is to the point where America would elect a gay as President. No matter, really, as I don't think he'll win the Democratic nomination anyway. Edited February 8, 2020 by Tippaporn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Town Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Mayor Pete has had major corporate support, and those guys don't give without expecting a large ROI. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tippaporn Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, J Town said: Mayor Pete has had major corporate support, and those guys don't give without expecting a large ROI. Who wants a President who is beholden to donors? Trump is beholden to no donors . . . just the American people. 3 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rudi49jr Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said: Trump is beholden to no donors You're kidding, right? Because I had to laugh so hard I just fell off my chair. 4 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, J Town said: Mayor Pete has had major corporate support, and those guys don't give without expecting a large ROI. Sounds like a Bernie line. If he's nominated, that will be a non-issue. If Bernie is nominated expect 24/7 ads conflating him with Chavez/Maduro. The point is to beat 45. 45 is an existential threat to American democracy. This is not the time for purity tests! 1 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorG Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 If Bernie does not win NH he should give up. It is right next door to his senate seat and he is well know there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worgeordie Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tippaporn said: Who wants a President who is beholden to donors? Trump is beholden to no donors . . . just the American people. So are you saying he's using all his own money ? regards worgeordie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 47 minutes ago, DoctorG said: If Bernie does not win NH he should give up. It is right next door to his senate seat and he is well know there. Unfortunately he'll probably win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDfella Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Being English, I have no politics in this but I have been following both sides. Mitt Romney was a blast in the side for President Trump and what James Carville said about his own Dems is a warning for them. In my view the 'ripping' episode by N.P. was ill timed and would have better done it at a press conference rather than at the SOTU...and I don't think it would impress those who haven't yet made up their mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monomial Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 I'll just say it again to remind everyone. Anger is what is driving the American electorate these days. They don't want stability. They want radical change. Bernie is the only Democratic candidate I have seen that stands for radically changing anything. Therefore, he is really the only one that stands a chance of beating Trump in my opinon. Unless another candidate steps up to the plate and violently takes control of the Democratic Party the way Trump did with the Republicans, they have no chance of winning. Remember how much the Republicans hated Trump, and he won the nomination anyway to everyone's dismay? There is a reason for that. The Democrats need to wake up if they are going to win. My opinion on a winning platform with the electorate? Have Bernie threaten to go after all the wealthy bankers and stock brokers. Blame the problems in the USA on the havoc Wall Street has wrought within the country over the last few decades, and promise to reshape the country as free enterprise, but without the robber barons at the top plus free healthcare for all. Look back at history and see how Standard Oil was broken up. There is a lesson there. Americans could get behind a new New Deal if presented properly. But whatever you do, be aggressive and radical. Play to the anger that exists in America regarding the political class. That is a candidate who will win. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Monomial said: I'll just say it again to remind everyone. Anger is what is driving the American electorate these days. They don't want stability. They want radical change. Bernie is the only Democratic candidate I have seen that stands for radically changing anything. Therefore, he is really the only one that stands a chance of beating Trump in my opinon. Unless another candidate steps up to the plate and violently takes control of the Democratic Party the way Trump did with the Republicans, they have no chance of winning. Remember how much the Republicans hated Trump, and he won the nomination anyway to everyone's dismay? There is a reason for that. The Democrats need to wake up if they are going to win. My opinion on a winning platform with the electorate? Have Bernie threaten to go after all the wealthy bankers and stock brokers. Blame the problems in the USA on the havoc Wall Street has wrought within the country over the last few decades, and promise to reshape the country as free enterprise, but without the robber barons at the top plus free healthcare for all. Look back at history and see how Standard Oil was broken up. There is a lesson there. Americans could get behind a new New Deal if presented properly. But whatever you do, be aggressive and radical. Play to the anger that exists in America regarding the political class. That is a candidate who will win. Yeah that's the argument for Bernie. I couldn't disagree more as far as his chances of beating 45. He'd be our Corbyn. No thanks! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Alex Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 6 hours ago, worgeordie said: But they do ?,Mayor Pete,is a better choice than the old farts, but will him been gay have any effect,i am sure Trump would have plenty to say about him. regards worgeordie Mayor Pete won't get the needed black vote. Having fired a black police chief for recording racist white cops talking racist <deleted> about him and then making the South Bend PD whiter than ever, blacks will not warm to him. Yes, being a racist like Mayor Pete will cost. We needn't worry much about what Trump will say, because Mayor Pete won't be the nominee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Alex Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Jingthing said: Sounds like a Bernie line. If he's nominated, that will be a non-issue. If Bernie is nominated expect 24/7 ads conflating him with Chavez/Maduro. The point is to beat 45. 45 is an existential threat to American democracy. This is not the time for purity tests! I keep hearing Democrats say Trump is a threat to democracy. That seems odd, given it's Democrats who say Trump is an illegitimate president, didn't actually win and continue to fight to overturn the results of the 2016 election. Of course, it's extra silly as we watch Hillary Inc. rig the Iowa primary with this silly app of theirs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said: I keep hearing Democrats say Trump is a threat to democracy. That seems odd, given it's Democrats who say Trump is an illegitimate president, didn't actually win and continue to fight to overturn the results of the 2016 election. Of course, it's extra silly as we watch Hillary Inc. rig the Iowa primary with this silly app of theirs. Oh look you dreamed up a conspiracy with HC at the center. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Crazy Alex Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Oh look you dreamed up a conspiracy with HC at the center. No. Please reread my post. I clearly stated Hillary Inc., which obviously isn't the same as saying Hillary the person. The app behind the Iowa catastrophe was developed by Hillary campaign veterans. That is FACT, not a conspiracy theory. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-02-04/clinton-campaign-vets-behind-2020-iowa-caucus-app-snafu EDIT: Hillary Clinton is no longer at the center of anything. She is a twice-failed candidate for president who has been thrown off to the side and left blaming everyone for what a horrible, corrupt, inept, incompetent political hack. Edited February 8, 2020 by Crazy Alex 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Remember McGovern who BTW was a very good man. Nominating Bernie would get a similar result. Democrats need to wake up. Don't commit political suicide. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-poses-a-quandary-for-vulnerable-democrats/2020/02/07/e8a4fac8-491a-11ea-bdbf-1dfb23249293_story.html Is Sanders an election-year disaster waiting to happen? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Alex Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Remember McGovern who BTW was a very good man. Nominating Bernie would get a similar result. Democrats need to wake up. Don't commit political suicide. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-poses-a-quandary-for-vulnerable-democrats/2020/02/07/e8a4fac8-491a-11ea-bdbf-1dfb23249293_story.html Is Sanders an election-year disaster waiting to happen? Don't worry. The DNC made sure Bernie wasn't the nominee in 2016. They'll do it again this year. Oddly, it's the "Democrats" who hate democracy, don't even trust their own voters and rig elections to their leadership's liking. At least in this case, you agree with their meddling, yes? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post J Town Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Tippaporn said: Who wants a President who is beholden to donors? Trump is beholden to no donors . . . just the American people. HOW could you post that with a straight face? Without choking on the throw up in your mouth? He is beholden to Russia, to the Saudis, to Wall Street, and when his taxes are finally exposed, I'd bet MY bottom dollar the list is much more extensive than that. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sucit Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Remember McGovern who BTW was a very good man. Nominating Bernie would get a similar result. Democrats need to wake up. Don't commit political suicide. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-poses-a-quandary-for-vulnerable-democrats/2020/02/07/e8a4fac8-491a-11ea-bdbf-1dfb23249293_story.html Is Sanders an election-year disaster waiting to happen? You say the most outlandish, backwards <deleted> you can possibly say. You say you want to beat Trump more than anyone, and you favor candidates who poll the worst against Trump. You do know BERNIE Polls the best against Trump, right? https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/480643-poll-sanders-best-challenge-to-trump-in-texas Not to mention, a centrist just lost to Trump. Trump has a lot more leverage now. What on earth makes you think a centrist will beat him this time? I think it is you who needs to wake up if your goal of getting Trump out is true anyway. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, sucit said: You say the most outlandish, backwards <deleted> you can possibly say. You say you want to beat Trump more than anyone, and you favor candidates who poll the worst against Trump. You do know BERNIE Polls the best against Trump, right? https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/480643-poll-sanders-best-challenge-to-trump-in-texas Not to mention, a centrist just lost to Trump. Trump has a lot more leverage now. What on earth makes you think a centrist will beat him this time? I think it is you who needs to wake up if your goal of getting Trump out is true anyway. National popular vote polls mean nothing now. If you seriously think Americans are going to ever elect a socialist that honeymooned in Soviet era Russia well OK, I don't. HRC wasn't a generic political ideology. She had very specific baggage and she did indeed run a crappy campaign. But this is what democrats are struggling with now. You're convinced Bernie is the answer and I'm convinced he'd be a disaster. Yes the stakes couldn't be higher. I guess we're just going to have to see who is nominated and who is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sucit Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jingthing said: National popular vote polls mean nothing now. If you seriously think Americans are going to ever elect a socialist that honeymooned in Soviet era Russia well OK, I don't. HRC wasn't a generic political ideology. She had very specific baggage and she did indeed run a crappy campaign. But this is what democrats are struggling with now. You're convinced Bernie is the answer and I'm convinced he'd be a disaster. Yes the stakes couldn't be higher. I guess we're just going to have to see who is nominated and who is right. He is the most popular senator alive. Your choice hands the white house to Trump. You are delusional. You are comparing Sanders to the Soviet Union? I will do you a favor. If you really are interested in ousting Trump, stop by Bernie's website and learn a few things. Republican talking points do not really count as "information". Or, you could just listen to what he has to say about the concerns you have about the US morphing into the Soviet Union lol. Where do you people come from? I mean seriously? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Alex Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Jingthing said: National popular vote polls mean nothing now. If you seriously think Americans are going to ever elect a socialist that honeymooned in Soviet era Russia well OK, I don't. HRC wasn't a generic political ideology. She had very specific baggage and she did indeed run a crappy campaign. But this is what democrats are struggling with now. You're convinced Bernie is the answer and I'm convinced he'd be a disaster. Yes the stakes couldn't be higher. I guess we're just going to have to see who is nominated and who is right. Why are national popular vote polls EVER relevant in a US presidential election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said: No. Please reread my post. I clearly stated Hillary Inc., which obviously isn't the same as saying Hillary the person. The app behind the Iowa catastrophe was developed by Hillary campaign veterans. That is FACT, not a conspiracy theory. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-02-04/clinton-campaign-vets-behind-2020-iowa-caucus-app-snafu EDIT: Hillary Clinton is no longer at the center of anything. She is a twice-failed candidate for president who has been thrown off to the side and left blaming everyone for what a horrible, corrupt, inept, incompetent political hack. Despite your ps/Edit attempt you as an avid supporter of Trump have repetitively used reference to Hillary Clinton as some sort of populist comparative benchmark. Why? Is it somehow extraordinary that a politically aligned person with an interest in an organization that invests in a software application that initially presents with some issues is some sort of political key to the current devolution of US democracy? Few would contradict you in that Hillary Clinton is no longer a political contender but personal opinion can not deny validity of her or any other in pursuing investment related to personal political agenda of free choice as indeed you demonstrate for yourself. Those that object to Trump and his demonstrated autocratic attitude do not do so purely on the basis of "beating" him but also consider candidates who offer a democratic agenda that not only defeats him but also repairs the insidious damage he has and is likely to continue to inflict contrary to not only the greater interests of the USA but to the rest of a very shrunken world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, sucit said: He is the most popular senator alive. Your choice hands the white house to Trump. You are delusional. You are comparing Sanders to the Soviet Union? I will do you a favor. If you really are interested in ousting Trump, stop by Bernie's website and learn a few things. Republican talking points do not really count as "information". Or, you could just listen to what he has to say about the concerns you have about the US morphing into the Soviet Union lol. Where do you people come from? I mean seriously? Stop insulting me. You really don't get it. I'm not red baiting Bernie. I'm saying that the republicans will and that it will work. Also its a fact that Bernie identifies as a democratic socialist and to most Americans unfortunately that translates into just socialist or even communist. Also it happens to be a fact that Bernie did travel to Soviet era Russia for his honeymoon. That will not play well in the heartland. I have a similar background to Bernie. My mother went to a grade school where they sang the Internationale every day. Ever heard of red diaper babies? Just too far out of the mainstream to ever be elected president but yes he might be nominated. I wont bother with Bernie's website. My priority is beating 45. As far as l'm concerned almost any American citizen would be a better president and human being than 45. Of the credible democratic candidates I think Bernie would have the poorest chance because he'd be red baited. Heck any of them are going to be red baited but in his case they can make it stick much easier for more people. Yes I know younger Americans are less socialism phobic than older ones. But guess what. They don't turn out in very impressive numbers. Edited February 8, 2020 by Jingthing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucit Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Stop insulting me. You really don't get it. I'm not red baiting Bernie. I'm saying that the republicans will and that it will work. Also its a fact that Bernie identifies as a democratic socialist and to most Americans unfortunately that translates into just socialist or even communist. Also it happens to be a fact that Bernie did travel to Soviet era Russia for his honeymoon. That will not play well in the heartland. I have a similar background to Bernie. Ever heard of red diaper babies? Just too far out of the mainstream to ever be elected president but yes he might be nominated. I wont bother with Bernie's website. My priority is beating 45. As far as I l'm concerned almost any American citizen would be a better president and human being than 45. Of the credible democratic candidates I think Bernie would have the poorest chance because he'd be red baited. Heck any of them are going to be red baited but in his case they can make it stick much easier for more people. Yes I know younger Americans are less socialism phobic than older ones. But guess what. They don't turn out in very impressive numbers. You do realize you are not making arguments, right? "Soviet Union" is not an argument. "Socialism" is not an argument. Our high schools are socialist. Our police are socialist. Your social security is... socialist. You are not going to beam into the Soviet Union if your healthcare turns socialist. I don't get it, but you do while you support a candidate who is getting 4% against Trump right now and I am supporting the one most favorable against Trump? You think getting 4% against Trump in a poll "means nothing", and I don't get it? You also need to answer for yourself, once again, why is a centrist going to win this time if a centrist lost last time? Answer that. Make an argument, because you have made none. "Socialism" and "Soviet Union" don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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