How do you know if two Passports are Linked

[murikamba]

I'm an Korean American and I have both the passports. I entered Thailand using my Korean passport and got 90-day permission to stay (brand new passport with the first Thailand stamp). Then I left for Seoul for a week and entered again using my US passport for 30-day "Permission to stay" (heavily used with a 10-year India visa sticker and entry in to Israel and other European countries but first Thai entry) . I left for Singapore and then entered again using my Korean passport for another 90-day (second entry stamp in the passport). It was in BKK airport. Not sure if they have linked my passport or not but they did not say anything. I'd continue like this for my one year stay in Thailand. My question is how do I know if they have linked my passport or not?

Edited February 9, 2020 by murikamba

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, murikamba said:

I'd continue like this for my one year stay in Thailand.

Good luck.

[tifino]

I'd be more concerned to ascertain what risks you might face; in being able to keep you US Passport

. Even the last paragraph...

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

 

it might come down to you being assessed, a good character assessment 

[Captain Monday]

"Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law" The OP is doing wrong as far as the US is concerned. Unless the OP is a Korean American woman the only risk is being Shanghaied into the Korean Army there but he would know that. 

[cooked]

I should worry about the biometric foto on the passports, won't you be recognised? 

[tifino]

1 minute ago, cooked said:

I should worry about the biometric foto on the passports, won't you be recognised? 

... and of course the fingerprints

[murikamba]

38 minutes ago, tifino said:

I'd be more concerned to ascertain what risks you might face; in being able to keep you US Passport

. Even the last paragraph...

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

 

it might come down to you being assessed, a good character assessment 

I am a born American. No one can take away US citizenship of an American by birth unless involved in a terrorist act while holding dual citizenship. Of course US State department does not like it and their embassies don't provide services if you enter a country without using a US passport. I am aware of this fact. How many US citizens entering Thailand wiht US passport avail embassy services in Thailand?
 

 

25 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Shanghaied into the Korean Army there but he would know that.

Yes, I know that. I got my Korean passport after I reached 35. So, no problem in that respect also.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by murikamba

[murikamba]

14 minutes ago, cooked said:

I should worry about the biometric foto on the passports, won't you be recognised? 

I am not worried about anything unlike farangs who are worried about trivial thing like TM30. If they link it, are they going to tell me or not?

[cooked]

1 minute ago, murikamba said:

I am not worried about anything unlike farangs who are worried about trivial thing like TM30. If they link it, are they going to tell me or not?

So I'm a stupid Farang, sorry I wasted my time on you. Actually I also have two passports and have thought about this. Welcome to my ignore list.

[tifino]

5 minutes ago, murikamba said:

38 minutes ago, tifino said:

I'd be more concerned to ascertain what risks you might face; in being able to keep you US Passport

. Even the last paragraph...

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

 

it might come down to you being assessed, a good character assessment 

I am a born American. No one can take away US citizenship of an American by birth unless involved in a terrorist act while holding dual citizenship. Of course US State department does not like it and their embassies don't provide services if you enter a country without using a US passport. I am aware of this fact.

 ah okay! now clear as to where you were born... until now;  there was the smudge regarding between being Citizen, and someone Nationalised 

[VocalNeal]

The only problem I can see is that you are using two different travel documents to circumvent Thai immigration rules or procedures.

Other than that you will be fine.????

[murikamba]

Just now, VocalNeal said:

The only problem I can see is that you are using two different travel documents to circumvent Thai immigration rules or procedures.

What rules and procedures? Can you be more specific?

[murikamba]

4 minutes ago, tifino said:

ah okay! now clear as to where you were born... until now;  there was the smudge regarding between being Citizen, and someone Nationalised 

Born in California, did my high school in Korea (with US passport), BS, MS, and PhD in the USA and lived in CA continuously after high school. Got my Korean passport last year through my mother. Came to Thailand last year because I could get incredibly beautiful girls in RCA clubs for one night stand - friends without benefits.

[sanmyintmaung]

40 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

"Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law" The OP is doing wrong as far as the US is concerned. Unless the OP is a Korean American woman the only risk is being Shanghaied into the Korean Army there but he would know that. 

The above quote can be simplified to get rid of the double negative : "Not inconsistent"

"Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is consistent with U.S. law"

[tifino]

1 minute ago, sanmyintmaung said:

51 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

"Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law" The OP is doing wrong as far as the US is concerned. Unless the OP is a Korean American woman the only risk is being Shanghaied into the Korean Army there but he would know that. 

The above quote can be simplified to get rid of the double negative : "Not inconsistent"

"Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is consistent with U.S. law"

yes but the original shown (non inconsistent) term, comes from a US Law documentation, as is 

at the bottom paragraph for emphasis

[murikamba]

36 minutes ago, tifino said:

yes but the original shown (non inconsistent) term, comes from a US Law documentation, as is 

at the bottom paragraph for emphasis

The problem with US dual citizenship is the battle between Federal courts and the state department. Unlike Thailand, US is established based on laws where Executive branch (State Department) cannot make any rules that violate laws passed by the Congress or a Federal court. In two prior cases, Federal court has ruled that citizenship cannot be revoked by State Department for dual citizens in any cases. State department does not like this and they need to mount legal challenge for each individual case. Unless the Congress passes a law specifying the exact reason, State Department is helpless. Mounting a legal challenge unless the case is a serious one is very expensive (to the tune of millions of dollars). The stand they have taken is US embassies won't provide any services unless the person enters a third country with US passport. In the case of terrorism, they have mounted legal challenges.

Edited February 9, 2020 by murikamba

[Captain Monday]

I meant to 

1 hour ago, sanmyintmaung said:

The above quote can be simplified to get rid of the double negative : "Not inconsistent"

"Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is consistent with U.S. law"

I made a mistake in the post meant to say he was doing nothing wrong using a Foreign passport. Eventually he will be hassled by Thai immigration at BKK airports  for "coming too many times". The reason it does not say read "consistent with US law "is there is probably not a statute specifically allowing out. In a free society generally things are allowed unless specifically prohibited. In North Korea as an example it is the exact opposite, and in Thailand every day you can see illegal activities happening in the open because the law is what a man in a uniform says it is.  

Edited February 9, 2020 by Captain Monday

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, murikamba said:

My question is how do I know if they have linked my passport or not?

When an IO asks you why you’re entering with two different passports and why you’re spending so much time in the country as a ‘toursit’.

[Caldera]

Unless you have two sets of fingerprints on top of having two nationalities, I think it's almost certain that they've linked your passports. That's not necessarily a problem, I'd guess, but you might get questioned about it some time. Unless and until that happens, your guess is as good as mine, they won't tell you.

[007 RED]

 

5 hours ago, murikamba said:

My question is how do I know if they have linked my passport or not?

OP…. Do a simple test for yourself.  Open your 2 passports at the photo page, then look at the bottom of the pages at the information typed between <<<< >>>> and see how long it takes you to spot the difference.

 

I would guess it took you about 5 seconds to identify that the 3 letters of your ‘country codes’ (USA – KOR) and your passport numbers and expiry dates are different.   Apart from that, both passports will have the same family name, first names, date of birth (in reverse order) and gender code (M or F).

 

When you hand your passport to the Immigration Officer at the port of entry, he/she places you’re the photo page onto a desktop scanner which read the information at the bottom of the page between <<<< >>>> just like you did manually.

 

So, when you presented your Korean passport on your first entry into the Kingdom the Immigration system would not have found any entry of that passport number in the database.  The system would then do a secondary check using your gender code, date of birth and names. 

 

As this was your first entry into the Kingdom there would be no record of you in the Immigration database and the system would then add your biographical information to the database.

 

When you presented your USA passport to the Immigration Officer on your second entry into the Kingdom the same process as I have described above would have automatically taken place.  Initially the system will identify that your USA passport number is not known to the database but when it does the second stage search it will recognise a match to your Korean passport (gender code, date of birth, and names).  The system will have established the possible link between the 2 passports within a couple of seconds.

 

You will be unaware of the fact that the Immigration Officer will have a ‘new/second passport flag’ displayed on his/her computer screen.  On clicking on the flag, the Officer will be shown the photos of you which the system obtained from the chips that are embedded in your 2 passports, together with your biographical details.  The Officer does a quick visual comparison of the photos and biographical data and if he/she satisfied that both passports belong to you he/she simply clicks on the button that then links the 2 passports.  The Immigration Officer will not normally tell you that he/she is aware that you have 2 passports as it is not illegal to hold 2 passports.

 

Because your two passports are then linked in the Thai Immigration system, each time you present either passport to the Immigration Officer when you enter the Kingdom, the Immigration Officer will be aware that you have 2 passports and have access to your complete entry/exit history.

 

When will you know if your passports are linked?   As has been indicated in post #18, when the Immigration Officer asks you "Why are you spending so much time in the kingdom as a 'tourist'?"

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by 007 RED

[murikamba]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

When will you know if your passports are linked?   As has been indicated in post #18, when the Immigration Officer asks you "Why are you spending so much time in the kingdom as a 'tourist'?"

Great post. It seems the days are numbered. Time for EV. Which passport will be better for an EV, US or Korean? How do they handle dual passport for EV. Do they stamp on both passport.

[Captain Monday]

You should ask Thailand Elite. Maybe the application would be faster on the US passport.

I had it for 5 years once you have the PE visa you will be escorted to the fast track lanes and hardly ever grilled about your activities in Thailand,  The PE visa is just the main benefit of the program, if you want to work you can have them cancel the visa so you can get a B visa. I don't know if they will allow you to swap passports or why you need that? You can only enter Thailand on one passport at a time. I know Thai people who have US passports. If they want to they can enter Thailand on a US passport (no purpose I know) maybe if they want to be on the same passport as a family, then they would have to use the US passport to exit.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Captain Monday

[CartagenaWarlock]

I have four passports (US, Trinidad and Tobago, Anigua & Barbuda, and Spain). I used my Antigua and Barbuda passport for EV. Thai immigration does not know about my other passports because I have never used them to enter Thailand. It took them 7-week to get my EV. The girl I talked to said it takes a little longer if you don't have any history of entering Thailand which I did not have using any of my passports. I was not in a hurry to get it so it did not matter. I entered Singapore using A&B passport (visa exempt) and then stayed in Singapore for three weeks, Got a TV in Singapore using the same A&B passport and entered Thailand (no visa exemption for A&B passport holders) with two months permitted stay. Waited in Thailand for one month and got my EV in CW before permission to stay date expired.
 

As you have a Korean passport, you will get 90-visa exemption. I will think that is plenty of time to get an EV before your permission to stay expires. 

[scottiddled]

Given the OP's stated brashly stated and unsavory reason for coming to Thailand, I'm not inclined to help him in any way. Still, one thing just needs to be fully snuffed out. 

On 2/9/2020 at 11:51 AM, tifino said:

I'd be more concerned to ascertain what risks you might face; in being able to keep you US Passport

. Even the last paragraph...

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

 

it might come down to you being assessed, a good character assessment 

This is just reckless. Others have commented that there is probably no reason for concern. Let's just be 100% clear.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a dual national traveling on their non-U.S. passport. Nada. Zilch. Zero. The only caveat to that the U.S. government insists that U.S. citizens use their U.S. passports when entering/exiting the United States. 

 

Uninformed musings about loss of nationality are not helpful. It is very, very hard to give up U.S. citizenship. For all intents and purposes, it's impossible to lose involuntarily. Short of formally renouncing citizenship in a U.S. embassy/consulate, which is part of a lengthy (and expensive) process, there are a few things that can be considered acts of intentionally relinquishing citizenship (e.g., taking an oath of loyalty to another country with the intent of abandoning your U.S. citizenship). But today, even those acts alone are considered insufficient--you have formally notify the U.S. government of those acts. In an amazing coincidence, the cost of properly informing the government of your "relinquishment" is identical to the cost of "renunciation." 

 

The courts set a pretty high bar for giving up citizenship, and for good reason. International laws with regard to statelessness, etc., and America's legacy of discrimination are tangled up in this. Simply breaking a law is not enough. Theoretically, the rules could change, and certain defined acts of relinquishment could automatically trigger a loss of nationality without a separate process.

 

But guess what is not, and never will be, on that list of acts of relinquishment: using a Korean passport to enter Thailand.

[NanLaew]

On 2/9/2020 at 5:22 PM, 007 RED said:

 

 

OP…. Do a simple test for yourself.  Open your 2 passports at the photo page, then look at the bottom of the pages at the information typed between <<<< >>>> and see how long it takes you to spot the difference.

 

I would guess it took you about 5 seconds to identify that the 3 letters of your ‘country codes’ (USA – KOR) and your passport numbers and expiry dates are different.   Apart from that, both passports will have the same family name, first names, date of birth (in reverse order) and gender code (M or F).

 

When you hand your passport to the Immigration Officer at the port of entry, he/she places you’re the photo page onto a desktop scanner which read the information at the bottom of the page between <<<< >>>> just like you did manually.

 

So, when you presented your Korean passport on your first entry into the Kingdom the Immigration system would not have found any entry of that passport number in the database.  The system would then do a secondary check using your gender code, date of birth and names. 

 

As this was your first entry into the Kingdom there would be no record of you in the Immigration database and the system would then add your biographical information to the database.

 

When you presented your USA passport to the Immigration Officer on your second entry into the Kingdom the same process as I have described above would have automatically taken place.  Initially the system will identify that your USA passport number is not known to the database but when it does the second stage search it will recognise a match to your Korean passport (gender code, date of birth, and names).  The system will have established the possible link between the 2 passports within a couple of seconds.

 

You will be unaware of the fact that the Immigration Officer will have a ‘new/second passport flag’ displayed on his/her computer screen.  On clicking on the flag, the Officer will be shown the photos of you which the system obtained from the chips that are embedded in your 2 passports, together with your biographical details.  The Officer does a quick visual comparison of the photos and biographical data and if he/she satisfied that both passports belong to you he/she simply clicks on the button that then links the 2 passports.  The Immigration Officer will not normally tell you that he/she is aware that you have 2 passports as it is not illegal to hold 2 passports.

 

Because your two passports are then linked in the Thai Immigration system, each time you present either passport to the Immigration Officer when you enter the Kingdom, the Immigration Officer will be aware that you have 2 passports and have access to your complete entry/exit history.

 

When will you know if your passports are linked?   As has been indicated in post #18, when the Immigration Officer asks you "Why are you spending so much time in the kingdom as a 'tourist'?"

 

 

That rates as the most informative and factual comment on dual passports and how they are processed by Thai Immigration and pretty much all other countries that have a such a visitor information database.

 

The only thing I will add is if the OP ever gets a long-stay Thai visa (a 1-year, multi-entry) or an extension of a visa, than the ONLY passport that is legal for entry/exit from Thailand is the one with said valid visa or extension. The other travel document cannot be used for visa-exempt entry to Thailand while a 'live' Thai visa or extension thereof exists in another, linked travel document.

 

This from personal experience.

[legend49]

On 2/9/2020 at 12:29 PM, murikamba said:

I am not worried about anything unlike farangs who are worried about trivial thing like TM30. If they link it, are they going to tell me or not?

I travel to west Africa on an Australian passport yearly. Other countries such as CIS, Russia etc I use a UK passport. An issue with Australian government is anyone who has travelled to West Africa as well as other African countries must report it to immigration for a special meeting; maybe Ebola issues. I though my new Australian passport has a  holograph photo in it I will scan at the smart machines and by pass manual immigration, how would they know.

My Australian colleague is also located in west Africa  is head of security of 4 mines and has spent all his life in " global security work" . He shows me an app on his PC that is a global database that has every persons travel listed once you enter details. So we put my Aussie passport number in, OMG it listed places I forgotten I had visited plus it showed details of my UK passport and travel. That's all I am going to say , have a happy trip and pray no smart ##s immigration person does a thorough check on your arrival.

[Suradit69]

On February 9, 2020 at 12:24 PM, murikamba said:

How many US citizens entering Thailand wiht US passport avail embassy services in Thailand?

Fewer services offered to which one can (successfully) avail oneself since they killed off the income letter & ended consular visits to some locations and some services that are available cost extortionate amounts for the two or three minutes it takes them to stamp a piece of paper.

 

No need for brown envelopes, they charge you the tea money over the counter and it goes to partially pay their generous salaries and allowances.

[Jaxxper]

Won’t the fingerprint scans make this a non long term activity ? That’s how they’ve caught people that leave (or are deported) and then try and reenter on a second ( or even false passport).

Don't think Thai immigration would look favorably on this plan. Just my view.

[moonhiker]

On 2/9/2020 at 11:22 AM, 007 RED said:

OP…. Do a simple test for yourself.  Open your 2 passports at the photo page, then look at the bottom of the pages at the information typed between <<<< >>>> and see how long it takes you to spot the difference.

...

When will you know if your passports are linked?   As has been indicated in post #18, when the Immigration Officer asks you "Why are you spending so much time in the kingdom as a 'tourist'?"

You know all this for fact? You have information from reliable sources that thai authorities do use the available technology as you describe to link multiple passports?

Edited February 11, 2020 by moonhiker
removed more quoted text

[snowgard]

If the immigration do a search in their system they can find you easy. If they put your name, surname & birthdate in the system they get a list with all matches with photo. 

B I N G O ! ! !