THINK TWICE before subscribing to thai IO-approved health-insurance

[Odysseus123]

Yes..400k is way to low..believe you me I know.

 

Thus you could be stuck paying a very high premium (as you get older-or have medical complications) with a low return for your money..

 

That's what happened to me.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

And/or make the required amount of parked money in a Thai bank mandatory for all nationalities, which would certainly be more lucrative.

That would actually be a very sensible alternative for the thai IO-approved health-insurance scam.

Instead of having to pay annually exorbitant premiums for the max 400.000 THB coverage the thai insurance foresees, it would be far better to block the - now already - required 400K when using the money-in-bank method, so that it can only be accessed by hospitals where you are being treated.  In case you have foreign insurance or are eligible to thai SS, hospitals would not have to make use of that option to get their bills paid.  But in case they have to access it, the requirement could then be that you would have to 'top up' the 400K again within 1 month of it being used for your hospital bills. 

[Magsg]

2 questions.

1. Would they accept worldwide health insurance from Pacific Cross or Aetena.

 

2 would they accept 1 year travel insurance cover from uk?

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, Magsg said:

2 questions.

1. Would they accept worldwide health insurance from Pacific Cross or Aetena.

2 would they accept 1 year travel insurance cover from uk?

1 - When applying for an extension of stay of your Non Imm OA Visa for reason of retirement, IO ONLY accept THAI IO-approved Health-Insurance.  When the thai branches of PacificCross or Aetna provide such policies, those might be accepted when they have been 'IO-approved' and meet the 400K in-patient / 40K out-patient requirements.

2 - Will definitely NOT be accepted when applying in-country for an OA extension of stay for reason of retirement.

 

Note - When applying for a Non Imm OA (long-stay) Visa in your home-country, 1/2 might be accepted when your insurer is willing to fill-in/sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate stating that your policy meets the thai IO-requirements. 

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, potless said:

Your policy quote as above definitely needs clarification. I could read it as saying that the 12 month period is taken from the date the policy is taken out. It begs the question of when a policy would actually be usable. Hypothetical scenario. Someone obtains an OA visa plus insurance. They come to Thailand for 3 months but for whatever reason have to leave for 3 months. They come back for 2 months and leave again for 2 months.They return to Thailand but 2 weeks later they become unwell. The policy would not cover them. Thus they have paid an insurance premium for 10 months and 2 weeks for nothing. Or am I missing something?   

yes, you get the idea.  There are several variations of this.  They get the Policy and the OA visa, Presumably the Policy starts right away, or on some date but for various reasons the expat waits 2 months before even going to Thailand for whatever reason. So the Visa starts 2 months after the policy had started.  Clock is ticking. Now after  months one trip abroad.   Now even one trip abroad and back could make 6 months contiguous almost impossible.  What exactly does "reside in Thailand" mean?  would a short weekend hop over to Cambodia matter?  How many days would one be allowed to not be in the country before they "Un reside" you?  

 

  What seems like minor points, but when it comes time to use the policy, it would be bad news if the company pulled out all the technicalities and would not pay out.  

 

  As a somewhat similar example here in Florida USA, when I first applied for Blue Cross back in 2006 (Before Obamacare), I had to "prove" I had been in the state continuously for 6 months before I could get a policy.  So 6 months seems to be a number that floats around the industry

Edited February 13, 2020 by gk10002000

[Magsg]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

1 - When applying for an extension of stay of your Non Imm OA Visa for reason of retirement, IO ONLY accept THAI IO-approved Health-Insurance.  When the thai branches of PacificCross or Aetna provide such policies, those might be accepted when they have been 'IO-approved' and meet the 400K in-patient / 40K out-patient requirements.

2 - Will definitely NOT be accepted when applying in-country for an OA extension of stay for reason of retirement.

 

Note - When applying for a Non Imm OA (long-stay) Visa in your home-country, 1/2 might be accepted when your insurer is willing to fill-in/sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate stating that your policy meets the thai IO-requirements. 

 

[Magsg]

Thanks for that info.  Very helpful

[Peter Denis]

Summarizing the 'benefits' of thai IO-approved health-insurance...

 

[stament]

On 2/12/2020 at 5:40 AM, Peter Denis said:

A Non Imm O - extension for reason of marriage has other requirements than one for reason of retirement, and needs to be approved by divisional headquarters (so takes longer). 

But the main good news is of course that you successfully got rid of the expensive and basically worthless thai IO-approved health-insurance requirement, by switching to an extension for reason of marriage.

And the lower financials to be proven for a marriage-extension are of course an additional bonus.

So a visa based on marriage doesn't require you to have health insurance?

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, stament said:

So a visa based on marriage doesn't require you to have health insurance?

That's correct.

Health insurance is ONLY required when applying for or extending from an original OA Visa for reason of RETIREMENT.

When you are applying for an extension of stay based on your original OA Visa for any other reason (e.g. marriage, dependant child, ...) then NO health-insurance will be required.

Also when you are applying for an extension of stay from a Non Imm O Visa (for whatever reason, including retirement) then NO health-insurance will be required.

[stament]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That's correct.

Health insurance is ONLY required when applying for or extending from an original OA Visa for reason of RETIREMENT.

When you are applying for an extension of stay based on your original OA Visa for any other reason (e.g. marriage, dependant child, ...) then NO health-insurance will be required.

Also when you are applying for an extension of stay from a Non Imm O Visa (for whatever reason, including retirement) then NO health-insurance will be required.

Interesting....

[AlexCanada]

On 2/10/2020 at 10:53 PM, fforest1 said:

 at age 83 the annual premium would be 380.000 THB for a 400.000 THB max coverage

  

On 2/10/2020 at 10:48 PM, Dcheech said:

Ah, a 40,000 (+) Baht per year fee, for retirees. Great! 

  

On 2/10/2020 at 10:24 PM, JustAnotherHun said:

The only possible plan B would be to buy that insurance <deleted> or leave the country.

Or buy an Elite Visa and enjoy airport transfers in BMW 7 for just 500k - as long as they don't extend their b.s. to that kind of visa too. 

Does the Elite Visa not have medical insurance requirements or is it included in the Elite Visa?  At an average of 100,000 baht per year over 5 years sounds like it's a better option than someone older paying 380,000 baht for 1 year of insurance coverage.  Even at a 40,000 baht premium per year for a younger person the Elite Visa doesn't seem so terrible any more.

[mbenson]

So if I am reading this right, the health insurance applicant should have no pre-existing conditions. I am 63 years-old and am diabetic. I guess they will figure that out and if I don't tell them I will be in trouble when it is reported to them by a healthcare practitioner.

 

So it appears, for someone like me, Non-Immigrant OA retirement is impossible. Is that correct?

[UKresonant]

8 hours ago, mbenson said:

So if I am reading this right, the health insurance applicant should have no pre-existing conditions. I am 63 years-old and am diabetic. I guess they will figure that out and if I don't tell them I will be in trouble when it is reported to them by a healthcare practitioner.

 

So it appears, for someone like me, Non-Immigrant OA retirement is impossible. Is that correct?

Its possible to get the O-A, but it is unlikely that you would be confident that you have coverage, from the linked compulsory insurance.

I think PC said they assess that pre- condition info before issuing the policy, maybe some others?? But many dont, and you would end up the creek with them probably.

If your not in Thailand all the time there is probably a 6 months in Thailand out of 12 clause in there somewhere.

I've discounted the O-A as an option, as a Multi entry visa.

The only safe way I think, is to not go out of the UK for more than 3 months at a time, and get the best travel insurance with the pre-existing conditions included.

 

Thailand does not have a retirement Visa, it the O-A is a longstay visa ME for one year. Which may or may not be extended, and have new conditions impossed in the future at short notice. Malaysia and the Philippines offer retirement Visas

 

As on financial product, it is often said that past performance may not be a guide to the future ????????.

Edited February 17, 2020 by UKresonant

[Peter Denis]

8 hours ago, mbenson said:

So if I am reading this right, the health insurance applicant should have no pre-existing conditions. I am 63 years-old and am diabetic. I guess they will figure that out and if I don't tell them I will be in trouble when it is reported to them by a healthcare practitioner.

 

So it appears, for someone like me, Non-Immigrant OA retirement is impossible. Is that correct?

It's surely not impossible in your case to successfully apply for an extension of stay based on your present Non Imm OA Visa.  But that requires that you keep silent about your pre-existing condition when subscribing to a thai IO-approved health-insurance policy.  Obviously that might result in any claims you would make on that policy to be rejected because of that pre-existing condition.  But if you only consider that policy as an expensive but further worthless piece of paper with the only benefit that it allows you to extend your permission of stay based on the Non Imm OA Visa, then it is indeed possible.

However, the purpose of this thread is to make OA Visa holders aware that these thai IO-approved health-insurance policies are a very expensive and basically worthless scam.  And that it is surprisingly simple to avoid that scam, by converting to a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa and subsequently applying for a 1-year extension of that Visa.  Then you would be in EXACTLY the same position as you are now, as the requirements/conditions of an extension based on a Non Imm O - retirement Visa are same as for an extension based on your present OA Visa.  The only difference being that the Non Imm O does NOT require the @#$%^ thai IO-approved health-insurance. 

>> I PMed you a comprehensive roadmap containing full details/options on how to apply/convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

To access your PM messages just click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged in to the Forum

[amexpat]

34 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

And that it is surprisingly simple to avoid that scam, by converting to a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa and subsequently applying for a 1-year extension of that Visa.  Then you would be in EXACTLY the same position as you are now, as the requirements/conditions of an extension based on a Non Imm O - retirement Visa are same as for an extension based on your present OA Visa. 

Really?  You can continue to use the 65K/mo income instead of parking 800K in a Thai bank?

Nope, not EXACTLY. 

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, AlexCanada said:

  

  

Does the Elite Visa not have medical insurance requirements or is it included in the Elite Visa?  At an average of 100,000 baht per year over 5 years sounds like it's a better option than someone older paying 380,000 baht for 1 year of insurance coverage.  Even at a 40,000 baht premium per year for a younger person the Elite Visa doesn't seem so terrible any more.

No and No.

It is a requirement for the O-A Visa since Oct 31st 2019, and for the O-X since it became available. 

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Really?  You can continue to use the 65K/mo income instead of parking 800K in a Thai bank?

Nope, not EXACTLY. 

Yes really.  And they are indeed not EXACTLY the same because an extension of a Non Imm O - retirement Visa does NOT require health-insurance (and that's the ONLY difference with an extension based on an original Non Imm OA Visa for reason of retirement).

[amexpat]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes really.  And they are indeed not EXACTLY the same because an extension of a Non Imm O - retirement Visa does NOT require health-insurance (and that's the ONLY difference with an extension based on an original Non Imm OA Visa for reason of retirement).

Thanks for that. I didn't know you can use the income method instead of 800K when converting O-A to O.

Sure?

[Peter Denis]

Absolutely sure.  But I can understand where you are coming from, as the monthly funds transfer method is NOT  addressed in the requirements posted on the IO websites to apply for an in-country Non Imm O - retirement Visa  < see attached >.

Tit and IO has not updated the web-sites (yet) since the rules went into effect in December of 2018.

>> As you are probably interested in converting to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa and subsequent 1-year extension from that Visa, I did PM you a comprehensive Roadmap outlining all details/options on how to do that.

1551323081128 - Non Imm O retirement requirements.pdf

[tgeezer]

Health Insurance could be abandoned as a requirement, after all it is a Cabinet decision not a law.

It assumes that people are unable to accept the facts of life, disablement and death and that hospitals can not refuse to treat us.  There are many Thai people who, when they become sick and don’t have the money to pay the hospital simply suffer.  I am sure that many of us would prefer it that our bequests go to those we know rather than to people who are already wealthy.  

If one reads the first report of discussions for introducing health insurance ‘O’ non immigrant visas are only exempted because of the introduction of the English “Non ‘O-A’” in the Thai script, this was a happy accident in my opinion.  The hospital’s point was that they could not deal with multiple foreign languages, the insurance industry leapt at it for the wrong reasons and Immigration went along with it.  The only achievement has been to complicate the extension process. 

[Langsuan Man]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

Health Insurance could be abandoned as a requirement, after all it is a Cabinet decision not a law.

At least TV has one optimistic member

 

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

The only achievement has been to complicate the extension process. 

Let's not forget all those that given up on Thailand completely due to this mess

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

On 2/16/2020 at 8:33 PM, AlexCanada said:

  

  

Does the Elite Visa not have medical insurance requirements or is it included in the Elite Visa?  At an average of 100,000 baht per year over 5 years sounds like it's a better option than someone older paying 380,000 baht for 1 year of insurance coverage.  Even at a 40,000 baht premium per year for a younger person the Elite Visa doesn't seem so terrible any more.

No, the Elite does need Insurance as of now and also it is not included in the Visa.

The 1,000,000 Elite membership for 20 years would be a better option.

Warmest

[Peter Denis]

26 minutes ago, KaputtAlreadyNa said:

No, the Elite does need Insurance as of now and also it is not included in the Visa.

The 1,000,000 Elite membership for 20 years would be a better option.

Warmest

Can you please provide a link to the Elite website where this is confirmed?

Thanks.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

43 minutes ago, KaputtAlreadyNa said:

No, the Elite does need Insurance as of now and also it is not included in the Visa.

The 1,000,000 Elite membership for 20 years would be a better option.

Warmest

Can you please provide a link to the Elite website where this is confirmed?

Thanks.

 

I think he meant the EliteVisa does not include Medical Insurance or have a mandatory requirement to have medical insurance to secure the visa. 

[unheard]

On 2/17/2020 at 5:38 PM, Langsuan Man said:

At least TV has one optimistic member

 

Let's not forget all those that given up on Thailand completely due to this mess

That could be the reason for why they might want to change the requirement and replace mandatory insurance with a mandatory Health account.

It's not in their interest to drive away the current and/or potential well-to-do retirees.

 

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Can you please provide a link to the Elite website where this is confirmed?

Thanks.

I think it is a typo and should say not needed. 

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

On 2/20/2020 at 6:12 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think he meant the EliteVisa does not include Medical Insurance or have a mandatory requirement to have medical insurance to secure the visa. 

That is correct.

Thanks

Warmest

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:55 PM, Peter Denis said:

Can you please provide a link to the Elite website where this is confirmed?

Thanks.

Sorry no link to the confirmation but that is a fact that I know as of now.

Thanks

Warmest

[OJAS]

12 hours ago, KaputtAlreadyNa said:

That is correct.

Thanks

Warmest

 

12 hours ago, KaputtAlreadyNa said:

Sorry no link to the confirmation but that is a fact that I know as of now.

Thanks

Warmest

These 2 posts appear to contradict each other!