Pattaya: Elderly Belgian man dies after argument with neighbors over noise from his pump

[jacko45k]

Just now, holy cow cm said:

Yes but you do not own the plot as you are a foreigner. Yes I have been to cremations here before. Same way I will go. 

The only case I knew of was in Church grounds where I believe the church owned it. 

[metempsychotic]

On 2/17/2020 at 6:22 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Has always been. 

Yup.

[jak2002003]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:39 PM, Pedrogaz said:

Our neighbor complained about our dogs barking....but his bark all day and night long. He has about 6 or 8 <deleted>zu dogs that yap. My wife told him to <deleted> off.

My Thai neighbour complained about our 2 dogs barking (which they rarely do as I even took the time to stay in all day and count the time they barked... 3 times in 24 hours for no more than 2 minutes each time, and not at all at night in the house.  What made is so stupid is the fact his growing pack of over now over 10 dogs are constantly barking.  He even throws his leftover food over his wall onto the street outside our gate and the street dogs and his dogs all gather each day and have massive fights.  

 

He has also complained about our gate being too noisy, our motor bike being too noisy, our lights being too bright, our security camera, our tree too tall, us coming home too late at night etc etc.  He even spread lies about me throwing our dog poo outside the neighbours gate.... when it is his pack of dogs and the street dogs crapping there every day!!  I am pretty sure, if I was a Thai neighbour, he would not dare complaining like this.  

 

 

 

 

On 2/17/2020 at 4:21 PM, CGW said:

I do the opposite, run for 6 hours each night! (Salt water chlorinator)  rarely run during the day.

Strange.  Do you only go swimming at night?  You need the pump on when swimming.  Why would you have the pump timer on for the night time… when this is the time the noise will be most noticeable?  

 

[philosphrstone]

23 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

My Thai neighbour complained about our 2 dogs barking (which they rarely do as I even took the time to stay in all day and count the time they barked... 3 times in 24 hours for no more than 2 minutes each time, and not at all at night in the house.  What made is so stupid is the fact his growing pack of over now over 10 dogs are constantly barking.  He even throws his leftover food over his wall onto the street outside our gate and the street dogs and his dogs all gather each day and have massive fights.  

 

He has also complained about our gate being too noisy, our motor bike being too noisy, our lights being too bright, our security camera, our tree too tall, us coming home too late at night etc etc.  He even spread lies about me throwing our dog poo outside the neighbours gate.... when it is his pack of dogs and the street dogs crapping there every day!!  I am pretty sure, if I was a Thai neighbour, he would not dare complaining like this.  

 

 

 

 

Strange.  Do you only go swimming at night?  You need the pump on when swimming.  Why would you have the pump timer on for the night time… when this is the time the noise will be most noticeable?  

 

A couple years ago I lived next to a Thai man who must have worked bar or something because he was always away in evening and would leave his old decrepit dog outside.  The blind deaf old thing would yowl and bark all night until he came back.  After a couple weeks of listening to the damned thing I decided I had enough.  So, the next morning, I went to his door and apologized with a wai that I was being disturbed by his dog.  Then I pulled out my phone and let him see and hear the dog doing its' thing.  Then I again told him I was very sorry to have to complain to him.  By God, it worked...  he didn't leave the dog outside again the whole time I was there.  I am sure if I had gone over mad and acted angry, he would have kept leaving the dog out just to punish me for making him lose face.  The act of me apologizing to him shamed him into having to treat me like a human!  I have never gotten anywhere here by getting visibly angry with anyone.  It turns Thais into stone and you get nowhere...  and quite possibly make enemies for life if they lose face in front of someone they consider important.  Just my take, but I can't say for sure I am right.  I was honestly quite shocked that something changed, because, in my experience, nobody here gives a <deleted> about anyone else, especially regards to excessive noise!  Only in a place where everyone is completely oblivious to aggravating noise could a bird like the Asian Koel be allowed to reside in a city.  That said, does anyone have a BB gun or .22 and want to make some money?!!!!  

Edited February 18, 2020 by philosphrstone
sp.

[tropo]

On 2/17/2020 at 8:37 AM, colinneil said:

I find it unbelievable that Thais are complaining about noise !!

Hopefully there will be a proper investigation into the mans death, not the usual cover up because it is about a farang.

They do complain about noise if the noise source is a foreigner. They only don't complain about noise if there's nothing they can do about it, but that doesn't mean they like it. If you want to test my theory, go and live in a quiet village and start making noise.  

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

took the time to stay in all day and count the time they barked..

Rather a biased sample I expect.

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Strange.  Do you only go swimming at night?  You need the pump on when swimming.  Why would you have the pump timer on for the night time… when this is the time the noise will be most noticeable?

Why on earth do you need to run the pump when swimming? I run mine evenings and early mornings, it is best to avoid power cuts which occur usually mid-afternoon. 

[CGW]

9 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Strange.  Do you only go swimming at night?  You need the pump on when swimming.  Why would you have the pump timer on for the night time… when this is the time the noise will be most noticeable?  

Very rarely use the pool, if anyone swims during the day - easy to turn on, the reason for running at night is salt water chlorinators produce chlorine when the pump is running, it is more efficient to run at night as the produced chlorine cleans the pool rather than being killed off by the sun, noise is not an issue, pump house was placed far enough away from the house where it cannot be heard inside, I have no close neighbours, so noise not an issue - maybe not so "strange" but sensible? 

[toofarnorth]

On 2/17/2020 at 4:02 PM, BritManToo said:

Being 65, I cam most certainly say I'm not only elderly, but death is fast approaching.

As for the pool pump, don't you turn them off at night to save electricity?

Jeez !  I am elderly big then as I am 73 tomorrow , spoke to my eldest grand daughter last night on skype and she works in a care home , I said save a place for me ,

[gk10002000]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:40 AM, chickenslegs said:

That was my first thought too.

Wasn't there an incident a few months ago when a foreign man was electrocuted whilst fixing his pool pump?

I recall several such articles over the last year or two.  One old fellow was clearly tinkering with his pump wiring and it killed him

[drbeach]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

They do complain about noise if the noise source is a foreigner. They only don't complain about noise if there's nothing they can do about it, but that doesn't mean they like it. If you want to test my theory, go and live in a quiet village and start making noise.  

I don't think that's necessarily true. Some years ago I had a party at an apartment I lived in towards the outskirts of Bangkok. I had some Thai friends over who made lots of noise. The neighbors (who I had never met or even seen before and couldn't have known I was a foreigner) complained twice. Granted it wasn't me making the noise, but as the host I would be held accountable. Now you have to put things into perspective - I can't imagine a Thai would tolerate lots of loud shouting and music at 3am going on from the house or apartment next door, especially if it's not something that normally happens.

 

In very poor rural areas, usually small villages, particularly those located near the borders with neighboring countries, it's common to have loudspeakers blurting out propaganda (although it's not nearly as bad as in countries like Vietnam and Laos), Maw-lam music etc. during the day, but it's extremely quiet at night. However, the loudspeakers often come on quite early, like 6am, so sleeping in becomes difficult.

 

By contrast, upper middle class moo baans in larger cities around the country, as well as people who live on large tracts of land in upcountry areas usually live in quiet surroundings and face relatively little noise pollution. Except occasionally when someone pulls out the old angle grinder, but from my own experience living in a moo baan for many years now, most of the time it's quiet, especially at night. We only have one set of neighbors who like to spend time sitting around with their buddies outdoors, mostly on weekends and public holidays. They put on some music, or some radio or TV program (never know what it is) it sounds like a documentary, then sit around and chat all day from morning till early evening. The music level is not too loud and can only be heard if you're outside and they always turn it off by 8 or 9pm at the latest (and it's only on occasionally anyway). In very rare cases, it might last until 10 but again, it's not audible when we're indoors. A few years ago these same neighbors had a rooster, which was annoying but I think a number of complaints led to that rooster "disappearing".

 

Another set of neighbors on the other side of our property had 5 dogs who were making a lot of noise at times. Was definitely  annoying, especially at the beginning because they were always outside. They started settling down after a few weeks though and then just became a minor nuisance. One of their dogs started going into everyone's garden to steal shoes - to this day one of my shoes can't be found. We told the neighbor about this who said he would try and find said missing shoe (we weren't the only ones who encountered this) but he never did (or maybe he tried but the shoe never turned up). 2 weeks later this family, who was very messy moved out, without paying their rent. We suspected from the outset that they wouldn't last more than 2 years living there. We were right - they were our neighbors for maybe 1.5 years. Even though I was a bit suspicious about all the upgrades they made to the house (probably without the permission of the owner) including concreting part of the backyard and erecting a fence to keep in the dogs, and painting the front wall, it turns out they were simply renters who acted as though they owned the place.

 

From the outset I knew I wouldn't really like those neighbors (just from their appearance I guess) and the only time we ever spoke was after 1.5 years, 2 weeks before they would leave for good, because of the missing shoe incident.

 

That being said, I've had much worse and more selfish neighbors than these people, when living back home in the west. While I can't stand noisy, barking dogs, I tend not to blame the owners too much because it's not like dogs can control their behavior like we humans can. I have much less tolerance for inconsiderate people who ride around on modified scooters and motorcycles with noisy exhausts, like to have parties late at night and turn on music at full volume.

[jak2002003]

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Rather a biased sample I expect.

Should have said, I listened out several days, and still do to this day.  I am usually at home all the time anyway as retired.  I even went out and listened from outside the gate a few times on leaving and returning... and the dogs were silent... just asleep.  I guess, because he complained about so many things that were stupid and trivial, that he just likes to complain and make trouble... he told our neighbour I threw all our dog <deleted> outside her gate, which is totally a lie... just so he would not get the blame for his dogs doing it.   

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why on earth do you need to run the pump when swimming? I run mine evenings and early mornings, it is best to avoid power cuts which occur usually mid-afternoon. 

I thought that if you were swimming and the pump was not on, the water would overflow into the sump tank / and the level in the pool would drop and look unsightly.  If a lot of people were splashing about the overflow gutters and tank might fill up too much and overflow?  Sorry, don't know the technical names of the pool stuff lol.  

 

Also, its nicer to swim in a pool with some water flow going on I think.  

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

I thought that if you were swimming and the pump was not on, the water would overflow into the sump tank / and the level in the pool would drop and look unsightly.  If a lot of people were splashing about the overflow gutters and tank might fill up too much and overflow?  Sorry, don't know the technical names of the pool stuff lol.  

 

Also, its nicer to swim in a pool with some water flow going on I think.

Mine is not that type, uses a flapper gate and no tank. You are correct wrt the ones that drain around the circumference. The pump is on a timer and I simply avoid running it during the daytime. Quite a few of my power problems include under-voltage and if the pump was running at that time components are damaged.... my neighbour just installed under voltage protection as fed up of replacing relays and timers. 

Back to the OP... my pump is housed in a pool room and you can hardly hear it. Not sure what was the case in the OP. 

[Aussieroaming]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:31 PM, cardinalblue said:

Elderly is age 65 now?

How depressing, only 8 years to go then until I'm elderly

[spidermike007]

Surely the neighbors must have been foreigners. Very few Thais even seem to hear noise. Just part of their culture, I have encountered very few that are bothered by noise. The whole thing seems strange, but then again, we have so little info to work with, as the article was barely anything. 

[EdrigoSalvadore]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:37 AM, colinneil said:

I find it unbelievable that Thais are complaining about noise !!

Hopefully there will be a proper investigation into the mans death, not the usual cover up because it is about a farang.

My thai neighbors complained to me. They asked me to walk more quite, because they were sleeping. It was mid day.
Once a girl slammed my door, I also got complains.

[rvaviator]

On 2/17/2020 at 10:02 AM, Puchaiyank said:

Let us not jump to conclusions now.  We all know that the farang suffered a medical problem while swimming...

 

Luck for him the did not live in a highrise condo...

Maybe he just returned from China ?

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

How depressing, only 8 years to go then until I'm elderly

By then I will be well beyond elderly.....????

[Aussieroaming]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

By then I will be well beyond elderly.....????

Don't worry, my old man's still plugging along in his 80's. Pigs ass if I'll roll over at 65 and play an elderly card

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

Pigs ass if I'll roll over at 65 and play an elderly card

But I bet you do with your benefits department in Australia.  ????

[Aussieroaming]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

But I bet you do with your benefits department in Australia.  ????

Not for me, self funded retirement. I left Australia 8 years ago, so decided to fund myself. Not worth going back to Australia for 2 years in order to re-qualify.

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

Not for me, self funded retirement. I left Australia 8 years ago, so decided to fund myself. Not worth going back to Australia for 2 years in order to re-qualify.

Can you go back for a serious medical condition and be treated in a public hospital for free, or do you lose that benefit because you have been out of the country so long?

[Aussieroaming]

On 2/22/2020 at 6:31 PM, Leaver said:

Can you go back for a serious medical condition and be treated in a public hospital for free, or do you lose that benefit because you have been out of the country so long?

No, my medicare card expired a long time ago and I don't have any residential connection to Australia, so I would have to go through whatever government regulations there are in order to re-qualify. Having said that, I have made contingency in my savings to cover illness and presently I have comprehensive private health insurance. If I take into account the costs of residing in Australia (I own my apartment in Bangkok) and the cost of supporting myself in Australia, when I don't want to live there anyway I can't see an upside to going back just in order to qualify for a future pension (10 years away). I still work and I've already got enough saved to live a reasonable lifestyle, but I will keep working and saving for as long as possible in order to give my wife a good life.

[Leaver]

On 2/24/2020 at 7:40 PM, Aussieroaming said:

No, my medicare card expired a long time ago and I don't have any residential connection to Australia, so I would have to go through whatever government regulations there are in order to re-qualify. Having said that, I have made contingency in my savings to cover illness and presently I have comprehensive private health insurance. If I take into account the costs of residing in Australia (I own my apartment in Bangkok) and the cost of supporting myself in Australia, when I don't want to live there anyway I can't see an upside to going back just in order to qualify for a future pension (10 years away). I still work and I've already got enough saved to live a reasonable lifestyle, but I will keep working and saving for as long as possible in order to give my wife a good life.

My question was not directed at qualifying for a pension, nor about saving for a good life.

 

My question was related to suffering a catastrophic illness / injury, perhaps one that required the medical expertise that is available in a developed nation, and for free, as a citizen. 

 

Your contingency is to save for any medical issues, but what if such saving were all spent on a serious medical issue, what do you live on then? 

 

There's a difference between health insurance and trauma insurance.  

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Leaver

[drbeach]

On 2/18/2020 at 1:20 PM, holy cow cm said:

Yes but you do not own the plot as you are a foreigner. Yes I have been to cremations here before. Same way I will go. 

Well if you're dead, you can't really "own it" either, irrespective of your nationality when you were alive. Unless your surviving relatives or family can put up the money, you will most likely end up choosing a burial method similar to deceased locals around you. Donations to temples usually allow one to have their remains interned inside an urn located on temple grounds. Most Buddhists however seem to choose cremations and have the ashes strewn over a natural body of water or a forest or something with no burial plot. Probably because for one, it's cheaper. Muslims and Christians tend to bury their dead - Christians on church grounds, Muslims in their cemeteries or sometimes in their own backyards.

[drbeach]

On 2/24/2020 at 3:40 PM, Aussieroaming said:

No, my medicare card expired a long time ago and I don't have any residential connection to Australia, so I would have to go through whatever government regulations there are in order to re-qualify. Having said that, I have made contingency in my savings to cover illness and presently I have comprehensive private health insurance. If I take into account the costs of residing in Australia (I own my apartment in Bangkok) and the cost of supporting myself in Australia, when I don't want to live there anyway I can't see an upside to going back just in order to qualify for a future pension (10 years away). I still work and I've already got enough saved to live a reasonable lifestyle, but I will keep working and saving for as long as possible in order to give my wife a good life.

I find it disgusting the way our western governments treat our own citizens. Refugees can get treatment on day 1, but Aussies have to wait a month before they get their entitlements back, after an absence of 5 years or more. Thais who live abroad can come back home and go to a public hospital on day 1 and get to pay the Thai price or use the 30 Baht scheme, if they can prove they are Thai (just need to present a Thai ID card or passport if the former is unavailable).

 

The Thai government treats even "long lost" Thais who have never lived in Thailand and are coming for the first time, the same as Thais who have never left the country. Meanwhile, in the west, foreigners quickly receive the same (or better) treatment as locals. Sort of makes you wonder what good is Australian citizenship (or any other western citizenship) if foreigners get the same rights as locals.

[ChaiyaTH]

29 minutes ago, drbeach said:

I find it disgusting the way our western governments treat our own citizens. Refugees can get treatment on day 1, but Aussies have to wait a month before they get their entitlements back, after an absence of 5 years or more. Thais who live abroad can come back home and go to a public hospital on day 1 and get to pay the Thai price or use the 30 Baht scheme, if they can prove they are Thai (just need to present a Thai ID card or passport if the former is unavailable).

 

The Thai government treats even "long lost" Thais who have never lived in Thailand and are coming for the first time, the same as Thais who have never left the country. Meanwhile, in the west, foreigners quickly receive the same (or better) treatment as locals. Sort of makes you wonder what good is Australian citizenship (or any other western citizenship) if foreigners get the same rights as locals.

Doubt that would still be the case if the hospitals here were of Australian quality, and paid the employees as much. 
Besides, during emergencies they would take you in regardless. Waiting only one month for further treatments? That is like, nothing?

I would need to survive on my own for at least 6 months in Netherlands, before getting a thing, if I return today and close my business.
They also take 2% a year from my government pension, that I would get if i ever make it to 70 years old and 6 months. 

Need to wait at least 5 years on a affordable rent house but refugees get one with priority + 5000 euro to furniture it, followed by social welfare, most likely for at least 5 years without ever having to do a thing at all. They will even get holiday money (but do not have a travel document LOL). They also get a sports membership, free education possibilities, free access to swimming pool etc.

We have like 500,000 of them right now and the government wonders why there isn't enough money, let old people sit in their own <deleted> for hours.
Perhaps we should get us some Thais on the borders, at least they would shoot them and make sure they not come back to try again.

Edited February 25, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Aussieroaming]

8 hours ago, drbeach said:

I find it disgusting the way our western governments treat our own citizens. Refugees can get treatment on day 1, but Aussies have to wait a month before they get their entitlements back, after an absence of 5 years or more. Thais who live abroad can come back home and go to a public hospital on day 1 and get to pay the Thai price or use the 30 Baht scheme, if they can prove they are Thai (just need to present a Thai ID card or passport if the former is unavailable).

 

The Thai government treats even "long lost" Thais who have never lived in Thailand and are coming for the first time, the same as Thais who have never left the country. Meanwhile, in the west, foreigners quickly receive the same (or better) treatment as locals. Sort of makes you wonder what good is Australian citizenship (or any other western citizenship) if foreigners get the same rights as locals.

I was aware of the government requirement, I don't necessarily agree with it but that's life, I did pay my taxes etc, so it would be nice to have coverage. I can't see me going back to Australia for any reason unless forced. I'm trying to do the right thing by preparing now for later, but who knows what the future holds

[Aussieroaming]

12 hours ago, Leaver said:

My question was not directed at qualifying for a pension, nor about saving for a good life.

 

My question was related to suffering a catastrophic illness / injury, perhaps one that required the medical expertise that is available in a developed nation, and for free, as a citizen. 

 

Your contingency is to save for any medical issues, but what if such saving were all spent on a serious medical issue, what do you live on then? 

 

There's a difference between health insurance and trauma insurance.  

 

Saving for a good life includes  making provision for health emergencies, enjoy the welfare system if that's what makes you feel secure

[Leaver]

On 2/26/2020 at 11:38 AM, Aussieroaming said:

Saving for a good life includes  making provision for health emergencies, enjoy the welfare system if that's what makes you feel secure

Who said anything about the benefits system?

 

I am talking about free medical care for a catastrophic illness / injury.  Eg. cancer, serious stroke, major operation requiring months of physio.  

 

When you say you "make provisions for health emergencies" is that insurance, or savings, because a catastrophic injury would see your savings diminish, rapidly, then you will be returning home to go on benefits.  

 

Why not return home, get your illness / injury treated for free, and keep your savings intact? 

 

I know I have paid my fair share of tax over the years, and would have no problem recouping some, or all of it, in medical care.