Travel Abroad with Non Related Thai Minor

[sitesurf]

 

In regards to Thai immigration, is it possible for a 'farang' to travel abroad (Thailand to Europe) with a non related Thai minor (7yrs)?

 

The proposed plan, if possible, is for the Thai child to spend his school holidays in Europe with his Grandparents and that I would accompany him alone, on both his outbound and return flights. I have known the family for many years.

 

The child has a Thai passport, European Visa and letter of travel consent from his parents along with a letter from his Grandparents stating that he will be residing with them, during his vacation.

 

I am a European national that lives and works in Thailand.

 

Ideally, the parents would travel with their child, but due to work and cost implications that unfortunately, is not possible.

 

I have checked with the airline and they say that it is okay, as long as I have the aforementioned documents however, I want to check re the Thai immigration standpoint, prior to the travel date.

 

Both I and the family are aware of the Human trafficking issues and understand that all authorities need to combat this, for which they have our and I am sure all readers, their full support.

 

Has anyone had any experience or knowledge of such issue?

[dabhand]

For Thai immigration clearance they accept a document signed by the local amphur that confirms the parents agreement to the travel arrangements. I  had to do this  (with my wife) when my son (i think he was 16/17 at the time) traveled overseas with an older friend. 

[sitesurf]

Thanks Dabhand, your post is much appreciated.

[drbeach]

13 minutes ago, dabhand said:

For Thai immigration clearance they accept a document signed by the local amphur that confirms the parents agreement to the travel arrangements. I  had to do this  (with my wife) when my son (i think he was 16/17 at the time) traveled overseas with an older friend. 

I have heard conflicting reports of what to do when one parent (usually the foreign parent) of a Thai child takes the child on an overseas trip. Some say nothing is needed, others state a signed document from the local amphur.

 

From my own enquiries, it appears that it's possible for a Thai mother to take her Thai child to a neighboring country on a border pass without the other parent (who may be Thai or a foreign national) and no documents are needed from the non-accompanying parent. Both the mother and her child(ren) can get a border pass by presenting the ID card of the parent and tabien baan and birth certificate of the child and that's it. Takes just a few minutes and allows a stay of between 1 and 14 days, depending on the country/border, each one having different rules depending on if your ID card says you're a local resident or you're from another part of the country, and the rules in place in the neighboring country.

Yet if one parent is a foreigner and the Thai parent does not accompany the child, said child can't get a border pass, not even with a power of attorney. The border pass office also doesn't know what immigration will say.

 

Do you know what the procedure is for a foreign national to take his Thai child across to Myanmar or Laos without the other parent? If the child travels on his/her Thai passport, a letter from the amphur and birth certificate? And no border pass option for the child (unless the child is at least 15)? Since Thai nationals normally aren't allowed to use their passports at some Myanmar border crossings if they just want to cross over for a day, that means a foreign parent wanting to visit Myawaddy or Tachilek on a day pass with his/her young child who is Thai, wouldn't be able bring their child along? Only if the child has a visa and is therefore allowed to use their passport?

[neeray]

56 minutes ago, spiekerjozef said:

What do you think yourself how it looks for an outsider?

Only looks bad if one has a dirty or corrupt mind.

[sitesurf]

thank you neeray for your post

[cmrichsw]

On 2/17/2020 at 10:38 AM, spiekerjozef said:

What do you think yourself how it looks for an outsider?

How it looks ???

[GinBoy2]

I have travelled alone internationally with both my American daughters and my Thai son.

 

Now in all cases we did come in for some extra questioning.

 

While the outraged side of me thought, 'why are they doing this, they are my kids'. The more rational side acknowledged that human trafficking, especially that of children is a real issue.

 

It's funny, I now work for Delta airlines, and one of our training modules is on this very issue. We are taught to always be suspicious of solo adults traveling with minor children of any sex, and to be hyper vigilant of the supporting paperwork when checking them in.

 

So I know it can be a pain in the ass, but the immigration officers and airline staff are doing it all for the right reasons

[ujayujay]

On 2/17/2020 at 10:38 AM, spiekerjozef said:

What do you think yourself how it looks for an outsider?

Is this a problem for you!? Or a Problem of your phantasy..

[emptypockets]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:06 AM, neeray said:

Only looks bad if one has a dirty or corrupt mind.

Or an enquiring mind as I'm sure many immigration officers do. There may not be a problem at the Thai departure side of things but arriving in Europe may be the difficult part. Hopefully the OP will come across an IO who is fluent in written Thai and confirms what the various letters say.

Personally I'd give this a wide berth. Airlines are well equipped and experienced handling unaccompanied minors travelling.

[neeray]

I've often been travelling and seen a man with a child on the flight. Never gave it a second thought.

[couchpotato]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:24 AM, drbeach said:

I have heard conflicting reports of what to do when one parent (usually the foreign parent) of a Thai child takes the child on an overseas trip. Some say nothing is needed, others state a signed document from the local amphur.

 

From my own enquiries, it appears that it's possible for a Thai mother to take her Thai child to a neighboring country on a border pass without the other parent (who may be Thai or a foreign national) and no documents are needed from the non-accompanying parent. Both the mother and her child(ren) can get a border pass by presenting the ID card of the parent and tabien baan and birth certificate of the child and that's it. Takes just a few minutes and allows a stay of between 1 and 14 days, depending on the country/border, each one having different rules depending on if your ID card says you're a local resident or you're from another part of the country, and the rules in place in the neighboring country.

Yet if one parent is a foreigner and the Thai parent does not accompany the child, said child can't get a border pass, not even with a power of attorney. The border pass office also doesn't know what immigration will say.

 

Do you know what the procedure is for a foreign national to take his Thai child across to Myanmar or Laos without the other parent? If the child travels on his/her Thai passport, a letter from the amphur and birth certificate? And no border pass option for the child (unless the child is at least 15)? Since Thai nationals normally aren't allowed to use their passports at some Myanmar border crossings if they just want to cross over for a day, that means a foreign parent wanting to visit Myawaddy or Tachilek on a day pass with his/her young child who is Thai, wouldn't be able bring their child along? Only if the child has a visa and is therefore allowed to use their passport?

Not really much help for the OP who is inquiring about flying to Europe, not crossing into Myanmar!!

[scorecard]

On 2/17/2020 at 3:36 PM, neeray said:

Only looks bad if one has a dirty or corrupt mind.

Well that's easy to say but it's always possible ignorant people (ignorant of the actual relationship) will say things.

 

I know from 2 real experiences:

 

1. My own Thai son (I am his legal father, his biological mother is 100% Thai), his facial appearance is quite Thai and several times over many years people made ignorant even insulting comments about me being a pedophile. 

 

When this happened, I spoke to them in Thai (where the comment had come from a Thai person) and showed my passport pic on my phone and his passport pic on my phone, highlighting that we have the same family name. 

 

On most occasions we quickly got lots of apologies, then the loudmouth quickly disappeared.

 

2. Today I often take 1 or all of my 3 Thai granddaughters to school, many times comments same as above, but often with a further comment about my wife being a prostitute. Show the passport pics, highlight the same family name, and again a quick apology and they flee.

 

 

 

[bender92]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:36 AM, neeray said:

Only looks bad if one has a dirty or corrupt mind.

Or if you care about children being trafficked 

[drbeach]

1 hour ago, couchpotato said:

Not really much help for the OP who is inquiring about flying to Europe, not crossing into Myanmar!!

I'm asking for someone I know. Not everyone is interested in the procedures for flying - what about if you're crossing a land border? I ask because this is something that is almost never talked about.

[drbeach]

50 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Well that's easy to say but it's always possible ignorant people (ignorant of the actual relationship) will say things.

 

I know from 2 real experiences:

 

1. My own Thai son (I am his legal father, his biological mother is 100% Thai), his facial appearance is quite Thai and several times over many years people made ignorant even insulting comments about me being a pedophile. 

 

When this happened, I spoke to them in Thai (where the comment had come from a Thai person) and showed my passport pic on my phone and his passport pic on my phone, highlighting that we have the same family name. 

 

On most occasions we quickly got lots of apologies, then the loudmouth quickly disappeared.

 

2. Today I often take 1 or all of my 3 Thai granddaughters to school, many times comments same as above, but often with a further comment about my wife being a prostitute. Show the passport pics, highlight the same family name, and again a quick apology and they flee.

 

 

 

That's disgusting. Who are these ignorant and horrible people?

I'm fluent in Thai and this has never happened to me. Most Thais just comment on how cute my children are (they're still very small).

I am not in denial about some of the realities of this country, but I think the prostitute stereotype has started to disappear over the years - though with that being said - it might depend on the "look" of the woman. My wife is Chinese-Thai. If yours is short and dark-skinned, Thais may be more likely to judge. I'm not sure, but this is my hunch. Thais don't generally stereotype Chinese-Thais as prostitutes - it's always the dark-skinned Isarn types.

[digibum]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:36 AM, neeray said:

Only looks bad if one has a dirty or corrupt mind.

And suddenly Thailand is a land of pure minds? 

 

I could see this written from a completely opposite perspective where some farang kidnaps a Thai child and takes the child out of the country and people would be like, "Wasn't it totally obvious?  It's a farang man with an minor!  No mom with the child?  OMG, how blind is Thai immigration?" 

 

With all of the messaging about human trafficking and stuff, I think it would be on the safe side to assume that some people are going to look at you funny. 

[digibum]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

It's funny, I now work for Delta airlines, and one of our training modules is on this very issue. We are taught to always be suspicious of solo adults traveling with minor children of any sex, and to be hyper vigilant of the supporting paperwork when checking them in.

When I was back in the US, even though my job didn't have much customer contact, every employee had to receive training on what to look out for with human trafficking. 

 

This isn't 20 years ago.  People are being trained to be hyper-vigilant about this stuff and the more red flags you you raise, the more suspiciously people are going to look at you. 

[bbi1]

If you are white and taking a kid who's asian with you, I wouldn't do it. A lot of people walking by you will probably think you're a pedo.

[drbeach]

18 minutes ago, digibum said:

And suddenly Thailand is a land of pure minds? 

 

I could see this written from a completely opposite perspective where some farang kidnaps a Thai child and takes the child out of the country and people would be like, "Wasn't it totally obvious?  It's a farang man with an minor!  No mom with the child?  OMG, how blind is Thai immigration?" 

 

With all of the messaging about human trafficking and stuff, I think it would be on the safe side to assume that some people are going to look at you funny. 

Three things. Thai immigration permits a Thai mother to take out her Thai child(ren) using a border pass to neighboring countries without the need for a permission letter from the non-accompanying parent. I've verified this myself. However, a foreign parent of a Thai child can't do this (i.e. can't apply for the border pass on behalf of his/her child) - the Thai parent has to accompany the child, except if it is old enough to apply for a border pass on his/her own, which is at age 15. In this case, there is no longer a need to travel with a parent but up until the age of 12 a Thai citizen parent needs to apply for and travel with the child, while between 12 and 15 the request can be made by the child themselves but must still travel with a parent.

 

A lone foreign parent accompanying a non-Thai child is unlikely to be questioned by Thai immigration because they don't really care about foreigners or what we do. Also, they probably assume permission was granted by the authorities in the originating country so they're not going to do the work of that country to double check again. I think their duty is mainly to prevent Thai citizen children being taken out without the permission of the other parent.

 

I think immigration is more likely to think it's strange that a man (such as the OP) is taking a strange child that is not related to him by blood out of the country than his own children. No ordinary person thinks it's strange for a single parent to travel abroad with their child(ren) but without the other parent. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen Thai and Burmese women clearly traveling without their husbands, cross the border with a child in their arms. I think I've also occasionally seen local fathers traveling with their children but without their wives too. I've never seen anyone question this or think it's strange.

[drbeach]

20 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

If you are white and taking a kid who's asian with you, I wouldn't do it. A lot of people walking by you will probably think you're a pedo.

Nonsense. In the west, maybe. But I think it's strange if the kid is not yours and that's when some people might question it, but you're probably going to receive more weird looks back home than here.

[khunPer]

To my knowledge you, OP @sitesurf, will need the letter documentation from the amphor office, just like us farang-fathers travelling with our half-thai offspring. I've done it a couple of times and never been asked questions by immigration, but with same family name it might not be that difficult, but I always had the amphor-letter just in case.

 

I however don't know if it a problem having a letter issued, if both parents are not present at the amphor.

[khunPer]

10 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Three things. Thai immigration permits a Thai mother to take out her Thai child(ren) using a border pass to neighboring countries without the need for a permission letter from the non-accompanying parent. I've verified this myself. However, a foreign parent of a Thai child can't do this (i.e. can't apply for the border pass on behalf of his/her child) - the Thai parent has to accompany the child, except if it is old enough to apply for a border pass on his/her own, which is at age 15. In this case, there is no longer a need to travel with a parent but up until the age of 12 a Thai citizen parent needs to apply for and travel with the child, while between 12 and 15 the request can be made by the child themselves but must still travel with a parent.

 

A lone foreign parent accompanying a non-Thai child is unlikely to be questioned by Thai immigration because they don't really care about foreigners or what we do. Also, they probably assume permission was granted by the authorities in the originating country so they're not going to do the work of that country to double check again. I think their duty is mainly to prevent Thai citizen children being taken out without the permission of the other parent.

 

I think immigration is more likely to think it's strange that a man (such as the OP) is taking a strange child that is not related to him by blood out of the country than his own children. No ordinary person thinks it's strange for a single parent to travel abroad with their child(ren) but without the other parent. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen Thai and Burmese women clearly traveling without their husbands, cross the border with a child in their arms. I think I've also occasionally seen local fathers traveling with their children but without their wives too. I've never seen anyone question this or think it's strange.

You are right.

 

A Thai mother travelling alone with a child to a neighboring country seems like no problem, It wasn't for my daughters mom when visting a neighboring country without me, even my daughter carry my family name, and not her moms.

 

A foreign man bringing a minor with a Thai passport out of the country is however more suspect, but it might well be a question of family name – in my case same, and never asked any questions – and the age of the minor.

[couchpotato]

1 hour ago, drbeach said:

I'm asking for someone I know. Not everyone is interested in the procedures for flying - what about if you're crossing a land border? I ask because this is something that is almost never talked about.

So start a new thread so it can be answered correctly, not mixed in with another OP's questions. Or better still ask 'the someone you know' to open a new thread.

[GinBoy2]

24 minutes ago, khunPer said:

You are right.

 

A Thai mother travelling alone with a child to a neighboring country seems like no problem, It wasn't for my daughters mom when visting a neighboring country without me, even my daughter carry my family name, and not her moms.

 

A foreign man bringing a minor with a Thai passport out of the country is however more suspect, but it might well be a question of family name – in my case same, and never asked any questions – and the age of the minor.

Well right to an extent.

 

But the dirty rotten truth is that the majority of child abuse and trafficking is committed by men, not women.

 

And in Asia, where the pedophile perceives easy pickings, the problem is rife. The Garry Glitter saga is a case in point. 

 

So of course there is going to be a disparity in how a woman traveling alone with children is profiled versus a man.

 

I'm Hispanic, ex wife caucasian, current wife Thai. So my three kids are all over the map in terms of looks. I've got the bleach blonde daughter, the hispanic daughter and the lek keung son.

 

The memorable events were; when I tried to take my son back to the US to visit family, not knowing that I needed to get any permission from Mom, that was a little touch and go at the airport, with phone calls to Mom etc.

The second was actually even stranger. I took both my girls on their 13th birthday on a father/daughter European tour, you know that time just before your kids can't stand to be with you until they actually grow up!

This was my Hispanic looking kid, so she looks like me. At London Heathrow we were taken aside and interviewed separately on why we were there and what was our relationship.

 

So don't get too hung up on the racial side of it, it's really just trying to root out an evil trade in children 

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Or an enquiring mind as I'm sure many immigration officers do. There may not be a problem at the Thai departure side of things but arriving in Europe may be the difficult part. Hopefully the OP will come across an IO who is fluent in written Thai and confirms what the various letters say.

Personally I'd give this a wide berth. Airlines are well equipped and experienced handling unaccompanied minors travelling.

This kid is not travelling unaccompanied. 

[Gulfsailor]

I’ve traveled with my unofficial Thai stepdaughter to many places in the world, plenty times without her Thai mum. I used to have her mum sign a piece of paper allowing me to take her, along with the Amphur paper. Never had any issue with immigration or airlines.

After she turned 15 we haven’t bothered with any documents and no one asked anything ever.

It’s kind of scary actually how easy she crosses the border now (both at the airport and at land), when I’m in another queue. She just breezes through every time without any questions about where her parents are or what she’s up to. 

[sitesurf]

On 2/23/2020 at 12:23 AM, Gulfsailor said:

I’ve traveled with my unofficial Thai stepdaughter to many places in the world, plenty times without her Thai mum. I used to have her mum sign a piece of paper allowing me to take her, along with the Amphur paper. Never had any issue with immigration or airlines.

After she turned 15 we haven’t bothered with any documents and no one asked anything ever.

It’s kind of scary actually how easy she crosses the border now (both at the airport and at land), when I’m in another queue. She just breezes through every time without any questions about where her parents are or what she’s up to. 

thanks for your post Gulfsailor

[mrwebb8825]

Get the letter from the amphere's office and if at all possible, have 1 of the parents see you off at the airport and the grandparents do the same when returning. Problems solved. 

[sitesurf]

Thank you for taking the time to respond mrwebb8825, your sensible advice is appreciated and that is what I intend to arrange.