Is Permanent residence that useful

[gamini]

I had PR in Thailand for many years and then lost it due to losing my white book certificate. TV members might be interested

in my views on this subject. I did not renew it even though I could have. 

So what i are really the pros and cons

Pros: You never have to go to Immigration unless you want to go abroad

no 90 day reporting

you get a blue tambien bahn

CONS: you have to submit an income tax declaration every year and pay tax same as a Thai

you have to get a re entry permit from Immigration if you go abroad

you have to renew your alien registration with the police every four years

If you change address you have to go to your amphur and change the address in your tambien bahn then you have to go to the police and change the address in your alien registration book. This is quite time consuming

Its very expensive .

Nowadays I dont think it is worth it. So few expats have it and so most Thais have never heard of PR. Bank employees and even immigration officers! They will always ask for your passport. It was annoying and frustrating.

Rather than get back my PR I opted for a retirement visa then finally a marriage visa. At Bt 1900 its very cheap and provided you have the financial requirements and fill in all the forms properly it is really no problem and it has never taken me over one hour at immigration. So what is one hour once a year. Your will have to spend hours gets a PR.

90 day reporting is a non issue for me. I have done it by post. online and anyone can get it for you.

 

 

[Puchaiyank]

You live a charmed immigration hassle free life indeed...

[scorecard]

I've had PR for more than 2 decades.

 

Yes PR cost money and it's not cheap.

 

The benefits: there's no need for any form of: annual re-approval, 30 day reporting, reporting about location changes when you visit a friend or stay in a hotel in another location etc., etc.

 

Other benefits are personal and perhaps abstract;

 

I have 99.9% guarantee that I am outside the impact of sudden visa changes, more money in the bank etc etc., which could mean that I might be separated from my Thai family. 

 

I'm now elderly, my Thai family take good care of me every day of the year without reservation. 

 

For me these benefits are highly valuable.

 

 

 

 

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in 

[4MyEgo]

I have never considered PR, not because I don't work or pay taxes, which I don't.

 

Thailand for me is the way I see it, my holiday destination, albeit it I have lived here for 4 plus years and renew the marriage extension annually.

 

I have a Thai drivers and riders license, the yellow book and a pink ID all of which I seldom use, the drivers license when requested at a roadside check of course.

 

Up until now I have been doing the 90 days at immigration, an hour 20 drive after we drop the kids off at school, it's in the same direction, my wife and I make a day of it, e.g. stopping and buying some fruit at the petrol service station and see the usual vendor, sister-in-law and might buy a lottery ticket as well.

 

Immigration takes 5 minutes as we are usually first in and out, then it's off to the mall for some Thai noodle soup while the wife looks around at Robinson and I look at the eye candy, then we head back to pick up the kids, I do have the option of doing it online or by post, and will probably opt for the online reporting as I did the TM30 not to long ago and found that to be easy, well sort of.

 

The above said, I really don't see the issue with all the reporting as much as it is a pain, but that said, if your organised and diaries everything, it's no different to reporting to your parole officer ????

 

When I get fed up of living my retired life in my holiday destination, in my big house, I will go back to where I came from, albeit it I will probably live in a shoe box, pay what it costs me to to raise and feed a family of 6 per month in rent and then have to look at finding money for food and everything else.

 

PR is for those that want it, not me, marriage extension will do me just fine, and if my marriage goes south tomorrow which it won't, there is always the retirement extension and all the foot loose and fancy free, well not so free, eye candy ????

 

[baansgr]

If not married its also a requirement if planning to apply for citizenship. I would say its well worth it for anyone that meets the requirements and intends on staying in Thailand

[jackdd]

The main reason is stability especially when you get older and just moving somewhere else is becoming more difficult.

A few days ago you had another topic, saying that you have many illnesses and problems getting your extension.

It could happen that next year Thailand decides that people on a non-immigrant o visa will require health insurace, same as non-oa visa holders now.

With your illnesses you would not get this insurance, so it could happen that you are forced to leave Thailand. If you had permanent residency this would be nothing to worry about.

[gk10002000]

So what are the actual requirements? I see several things when I read up on it on various sites.  Can a retiree apply and qualify for it?  The work permit seems odd, as many countries have resident provisions; some require money, investment, marriage, etc.  Three of my friends (now deceased) did get their permanent canadian residency thing, each owned land, property built their house.  One of them had a hotel, and a Canadian wife.  The other two were just US citizens that retired to British Colummbia.

 

  Is that additional information below just extra they need to know, and the key is one must have that 3 year work permit at some point?

Qualifications

 

To become eligible to apply for Permanent Residency Permit, the applicant must meet any of the following criteria:

Applicant must present 3 years of tax statements proving the above income

• Must hold 3 consecutive 1-year visa extensions.
• Must have a valid work permit for 3 years at the date of application.
• Must earn 30,000 Baht monthly income (for those married with Thai spouse for 5 years) and 80,000 Baht monthly income (for those who are single).

 

then I read:

• In addition, a number of documents need to be included with each application, in accordance with the category under which the application is submitted:

• Business or employment purposes;
• Investment purposes;
• Experts or academics;
• To support a family (wife and children) who are Thai citizens;
• As a dependent of a husband or father who is a Thai citizen;
• Accompanying a husband who already has a residence permit;
• Retirement.

[ThaiBunny]

11 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

the key is one must have that 3 year work permit at some point?

Yes

[8OA8]

29 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Yes

I often wonder if the had the work permit previously but not currently, is a qualification?

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

PR is for those that want it, not me

But since by your own admission you don't even begin to qualify for PR, it doesn't appear you have any choice in the matter.

[dbrenn]

PR is absolutely worth it - read through this forum and see all the pain and suffering caused by ever tightening visa rule changes. None of them apply to PR holders, who can stay in Thailand forever.

[Smokegreynblues]

Its worth it if you don't want to be treated like a "fresh off the boat immigrant" until the day you die. 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So what are the actual requirements? I see several things when I read up on it on various sites.

Retirement is no. Marriage if working and earning 50k baht a month.

The real requirements are here. Permanent Residency Requirements June 2019.pdf

[Purdey]

With a little foresight a PR is good because we won't always be young enough to do the 90 day reporting in person or feel the TM30 is not a big deal. We dont all want to hear about immigration raising the bar to keep out unwanted foreigners. We can apply for citizenship. It is a choice you dont have without PR. I asked my local police station what if I forget to stamp the red book every 4 years and was told there would be a small fine but I wouldn't lose the PR. It just makes life easier. 

[Jane Dough]

I have had mine for 17 years. Best 20K I ever spent.

 

Some raw officials in places like banks might not be completely aware of PR. That's where speaking the language fluently comes in handy.

 

For me mortgages, other loans were easy. Yes, if you leave you have to fork out 5,700 baht a year for multiple in/outs plus endorsement.

 

I have got round this recently by staying put!

 

I go to report my address about every 6 years and have a nice chat with the police about the Premier League. The chief supports Liverpool so he was in an especially good mood recently and even gave me change.

 

Rooster

[Denim]

22 hours ago, gamini said:

it has never taken me over one hour at immigration.

Hasn't  taken me any time at all since in 40 years I have only been once ( 38 years ago ) and vowed to never go again.

 

Some places are friendly and hassle free others not.

[abrahamzvi]

One can argue about the pro and con of a PR status, but there are a number of inaccuracies in your statement. Some of such inaccuracies are: 1) One doesn't lose one's PR by losing the White Book. One just has to report the loss to the police and get a duplicate from the Immigration. 2)Even if one is not a PR in Thailand, one has to submit Income Tax returns, if one stays here over 180 days p.a. 3) if one is a PR, one can get an annual stamp in your White Book (or if a Blue one it it's the first PR book) and annual Return visa in your passport, allowing you to travel abroad whenever you wish. 4) Even Thais have to register when they move from one address to the other (BTW. this is a requirement in many countries, applying to all).

 

As I said, it's one's own personal decision if one wants to spend the rest of one's life in peace in Thailand and then if possible and if qualified, to apply for PR.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

Hasn't  taken me any time at all since in 40 years I have only been once ( 38 years ago ) and vowed to never go again.

 

Some places are friendly and hassle free others not.

^^ This.. 

Its easy for some expat in Tak or Nakhon Phanom or some other backwater to say thier immigration is a breeze.. Here in Chiang Mai its an ordeal where you need to be there pre dawn in huge queues to have a hope at a place in the queue.. I also simply dont bother, getting non imm multiples overseas, I will even go as far as getting an O-X so I dont have to go there. 

I am one very interested in obtaining PR or citizenship, but have no intention of working for someone else or running a Thai business. I would consider paying myself a salary via a BOI system or something just to get on the ladder. 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, abrahamzvi said:

Even if one is not a PR in Thailand, one has to submit Income Tax returns, if one stays here over 180 days p.a.

That is correct.I submit annual Thai tax returns but for the last three years I have had nil eligible Thai taxable income.My accountant recently told me, backed by the view of a tax office official that if this is to continue I need not submit a tax return at all.I'm thinking about this.

 

[WebGuy]

Hi,

 

Not sure I understand how it works with visa when in PR possession.

Does it practically mean we don't need any visa and having some kind of stamp in our passport that we have the PR? We don't apply for visa extension each year as we do when having a WP?

 

Could someone reveal, please?

 

Regards,

Cosmo

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, WebGuy said:

Hi,

 

Not sure I understand how it works with visa when in PR possession.

Does it practically mean we don't need any visa and having some kind of stamp in our passport that we have the PR? We don't apply for visa extension each year as we do when having a WP?

 

Could someone reveal, please?

 

Regards,

Cosmo

Afaik it works about like this, maybe not 100% correct:

If you only stay in Thailand you can stay for life and don't have to do anything, no need to apply for an extension, or do 90 day reports.

If you plan to exit Thailand you have to get some type of visa (in Thailand), which basically lets the IO know that you have permanent residency, this is valid for a year. For this visa you also have to get a re entry permit as with any other permission of stay.

If you are out of Thailand when the visa expires you will lose your permanent residency, so the longest time you can be out of Thailand without losing it is about 364 days.

Edited February 19, 2020 by jackdd

[Sanjay Jaybhay]

I have a PR and there are 2 main benefits. One its life long visa with no hassel of 90 days reporting or tm30. The most important benefit is you can raise funds. Banks will give you money at a low interest rate as they give to Thais which can be used for property investments. I was able to buy many properties just because of this possiblity of leveraging money. 

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

I have had mine for 17 years. Best 20K I ever spent.

 

Some raw officials in places like banks might not be completely aware of PR. That's where speaking the language fluently comes in handy.

 

For me mortgages, other loans were easy. Yes, if you leave you have to fork out 5,700 baht a year for multiple in/outs plus endorsement.

 

I have got round this recently by staying put!

 

I go to report my address about every 6 years and have a nice chat with the police about the Premier League. The chief supports Liverpool so he was in an especially good mood recently and even gave me change.

 

Rooster

For an extra 5000 baht(or only 5000 baht if married), why didn't you go for citizenship?

I thought of getting PR before Taksin raised the price from 9,000 to 190,000 or so.

Compared to having citizenship, I think PR has little value.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Sanjay Jaybhay said:

I have a PR and there are 2 main benefits. One its life long visa with no hassel of 90 days reporting or tm30. The most important benefit is you can raise funds. Banks will give you money at a low interest rate as they give to Thais which can be used for property investments. I was able to buy many properties just because of this possiblity of leveraging money. 

Interesting. What percentage interest?

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

4) Even Thais have to register when they move from one address to the other

There are many Thais that don't.

Actually, my house book has been in Bangkok for 3 years but I haven't lived anywhere near there.

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I have never considered PR, not because I don't work or pay taxes, which I don't.

Why would you consider something you can't get?

[evadgib]

I'd like to see PR being granted automatically for married/retirees after a trouble-free qualifying period of say 3-5 years.

 

(Wishful thinking but perfectly doable & a 'win/win' all round!)

[Rotweiler]

For most of us (retirees, not employed) PR is nothing more than a pipe dream.  The work permit requirement is a killer...........

[Sydebolle]

If I see/read/hear, how some fellow non-Thais are treated by the immigration, sent back and forward for photographs, signature, papers etc., then my best expense was the Baht 25'000 some 32 years ago.
Then it took "same visa three years", Baht 25'000 official fee, speaking Thai in an interview explaining why one would like to stay. Except the original poster, I have never came across anybody, who did not see the benefits. Today the fee is eightfold and I would still go for it.

Losing the TM17 (Certificate of Residence, first booklet blue and subsequent booklets white for the immigration to stamp arrivals/departures) is absolutely not a problem; a re-issuance takes less than a day - against an official fee again. 

Applying for it remains an individual thing; I for one am very glad not doing TM30 forms, the 90 days stuff, the one-year-extension and whatever they might come up with next. Apart from an endorsement notification/re-entry visa (valid for one year) there is only the alien registration with the local police office, every five years you show up to confirm, that you're still alive. There is no "Thai tax declaration"; you work = you pay taxes, if you're retired then they leave you in peace. The peace of mind I enjoy for more than 30 years - as far as immigration is concerned - is worth all the money. 

[Sydebolle]

8 hours ago, Rotweiler said:

For most of us (retirees, not employed) PR is nothing more than a pipe dream.  The work permit requirement is a killer...........

Those days (1988 that was) you could apply if qualifying in one of the three categories:
- spouse is Thai
- you have Thai dependents (i.e. kids with a Thai national)

- worked here continuously for three years 
I'm not following the subject 24/7 but have not heard that this has changed ????