TM28: Thai immigration scraps requirement for foreigners to report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

[Don Mega]

3 hours ago, gamesgplayemail said:

oh so sad ! I didn't even have time to submit one of these idiot forms ❤️

 

As most of you can see, it is very smart to be an obedient-scare-by-his-own-shadow-foreigner !

 

you are so funny to follow these stupid laws ! I have never and will never, I have too much pride to follow as a foreigner sheep...

 

 

Ive had to do the TM.30 many times but as my permanent residence has not changed ive never had to do a TM.28.

[Isaan Alan]

So where's the praise for the Thai government and immigration? It did take them a year but they got something right. Yes, I have been critical of some treatment of foreigners in this country but credit where credit is due. 

I don't think they listened to us that much, but they listened to the workload on their officers and the lack of positive results from keeping track of everybody or should I say the "bad guys" who weren't going to report anyway. . Maybe they realised they can do that with mobile phone records.  

And to make it worse, mostly what I read is farangs whinging and whining about is it really so or is it some kind of doublespeak, double bureaucracy trick?  Hey wake up and smell the roses. 

[Ratt Thai]

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Section 37 of the immigration act is not repealed.

This is a regulation issued by the commisioner under powers granted in section 37 of Imm Act

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

 

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

 

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 
If you reside at another place as initial indicated on your TM6 form ( at arrival )

So, any tourist, or any person that stay's at another adress then known to immigration computer/ TM6 card has to do a TM27 at immigration, within 24 Hrs

 

Yes, we might discuss about the word "residence" and we might agree on who of us is right in the interpretation of the word, but who knows the intend from the IO in your case or mine when he interpret the new rule ?

 

For me, it seems that the new rule is either more stringent or more conflicting with itself...

Or: they where confused themselves with the enforcement of the TM28 and now created another cashcow called TM27 which they want to enforce with more action ?

Edited February 22, 2020 by Ratt Thai

[fleur3]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:21 PM, Chicken George said:

So.. No more reporting TM30. Which our local IO insisted I do even for one night away from my permanent address? 

Sorry but i remeber that if your landlord did not fill in the TM28 the foreigner was punished with a fine. So you are still at the mercy of the system!! Or am i wrong.?

 

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

So where's the praise for the Thai government and immigration? It did take them a year but they got something right. Yes, I have been critical of some treatment of foreigners in this country but credit where credit is due.

Alright, credit where credit is due > so ZERO credit in this case as basically NOTHING has changed.

Both TM-30 and 90-day reporting > NO changes.

Only some fiddling around with the regulations of TM-28 and TM-27, and in the process making the mess even more confusing and contradictory.

[cleopatra2]

20 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

 

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

 

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 
If you reside at another place as initial indicated on your TM6 form ( at arrival )

So, any tourist, or any person that stay's at another adress then known to immigration computer/ TM6 card has to do a TM27 at immigration, within 24 Hrs

 

Yes, we might discuss about the word "residence" and we might agree on who of us is right in the interpretation of the word, but who knows the intend from the IO in your case or mine when he interpret the new rule ?

 

For me, it seems that the new rule is either more stringent or more conflicting with itself...

Or: they where confused themselves with the enforcement of the TM28 and now created another cashcow called TM27 which they want to enforce with more action ?

One is a regulation  the other is an Act.

The regulation states that it is deriving its power from the act ( sec 37), and the regulation is repealing a former regulation.

 

[gunderhill]

19 pages of nonsense and still nothing clear. Fortunately Ive never  done a TM30/Tm28/2726/5/4/3/2/1 and just renewed my Marriage extension.

[Ratt Thai]

49 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

One is a regulation  the other is an Act.

The regulation states that it is deriving its power from the act ( sec 37), and the regulation is repealing a former regulation.

 

Please provide a link to find the source of your claim....
What former regulation are you referring to ?

 

Please read the fore mentioned act and regulation carefully and pay attention to the confusing details...

[ChaiyaTH]

Misleading <deleted>, I was happy for a while until finding out this is not about TM30 at all.

I only do TM30 when arriving with a new visa personally, and technically that is even legit in my case.
Usually I arrive at a hotel around the afternoon and leave in the morning, that is under 24 hours in total.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Ratt Thai said:

Please provide a link to find the source of your claim....
What former regulation are you referring to ?

 

Please read the fore mentioned act and regulation carefully and pay attention to the confusing details...

I am referring to the regulation that this new proposal states.

I have read this new regulation and the immigration act.

There is no provison in the immigration act to amend or repeal section 37. However there is in section 37 provisions to provide details of who is exempt from complying with sub sections (3) and (4) of section 37. The requirement to report to the local police.

 

The reason why section 2.1 and the 90 day reports are included is because this is a regulation concerning notification.

Edited February 22, 2020 by cleopatra2

[Max69xl]

On 2/21/2020 at 11:56 AM, natway09 said:

Next step would be the non necessity to report the TM 30 upon returning from overseas 

if you are returning to the same address as on your old  departure & new arrivel TM 6.

As far as I am aware there is now no requirement to inform them after travel internally within Thailand.

"As far as I am aware there is now no requirement to inform them after travel internally within 

Thailand."

It depends on the local immigration office if you have to report when coming back to the last reported address when travelling in Thailand. There's no official rule. 

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

 

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

I think you should pay more attention when reading.

The new police order clearly says: "By virtue of Section 37 [...] issues the regulation prescribing notification [...]"

It doesn't say anything about repealing content from the immigration act. The police general is not in the position to change laws. He can only change regulations which extend the law and which the law allows him to. In this case he changed the notification requirements (updated forms and making some people exempt).

3 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 

Point 2.1 in the police order is 37(2) in the law. Explanation for what?

 

3 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

now created another cashcow called TM27

TM27 exists at least since 1979 and afaik has not been used so far.

[Ratt Thai]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I think you should pay more attention when reading.

The new police order clearly says: "By virtue of Section 37 [...] issues the regulation prescribing notification [...]"

It doesn't say anything about repealing content from the immigration act. The police general is not in the position to change laws. He can only change regulations which extend the law and which the law allows him to. In this case he changed the notification requirements (updated forms and making some people exempt).

Point 2.1 in the police order is 37(2) in the law. Explanation for what?

 

TM27 exists at least since 1979 and afaik has not been used so far.

Why do i feel as an idiot teacher , trying to explain how to read to ignorant students ?
You can read where it say's "repeal" don't you ? And what does it repeal ? And the repealed is replaced by what ?
And did you read the first sections of the immigration act on who can appoint who to do what ?
And this new regulation, specific point 2.1, what does it means ? who does to comply ?
Is there any exemption ? from 2.1 i mean ...

 

And where is the previous regulation as been mentioned by another poster ?

 

If the TM 27 exists since 1979, why there is nowhere information to find about it ? Could you provide any link please ?

Documents from Immigration: ( no TM27 there )

https://immigrationbangkok.com/thailand-immigration-forms/

 

PS; my lawyers say that it looks that TM27 is going to be the new rule to enforce the old confusing TM28, so what does your office say ?
They want to crack down on house owners for the TM30 and they now want to use the TM27 since the TM30 does not apply for the aliens per se.
Immigration had to back down on appeals and complaints for the TM28 and for the TM30, so the outcome is obvious...
 

[Ratt Thai]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

I am referring to the regulation that this new proposal states.

I have read this new regulation and the immigration act.

There is no provison in the immigration act to amend or repeal section 37. However there is in section 37 provisions to provide details of who is exempt from complying with sub sections (3) and (4) of section 37. The requirement to report to the local police.

 

The reason why section 2.1 and the 90 day reports are included is because this is a regulation concerning notification.

Clearly: if i write "content of section 37 is repealed" would that be different then if i would write section 37 is repealed ?

Carefull: who have to comply with 2.1 from the new regulation ?

Strange: First you mentioned 2 regulations; a: the new one, b: the former one...

Regulation a i have... where is the former one ? The one that was repealed instead of content of section 37 ?

Links please

 

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Why do i feel as an idiot teacher , trying to explain how to read to ignorant students ?

Probably because you can't read.

 

2 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

You can read where it say's "repeal" don't you ? And what does it repeal ? And the repealed is replaced by what ?

They repealed the old police order from 1979: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

Replaced by the new police order (the one which you are reading)

 

3 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

And this new regulation, specific point 2.1, what does it means ? who does to comply ?

It isn't a new regulation, it's merely quoting Thai immigration act section 37.2.

You can find one translation of it in this police order, another translation in the link which you posted in your previous post and the original Thai version here: https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=58b4f72454b2f90a80136447

I suggest reading the Thai version, then you don't have to rely on potentially wrongful translations.

 

6 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Is there any exemption ? from 2.1 i mean ...

Did you see any? I didn't. So i guess there are no exemptions.

 

7 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

And where is the previous regulation as been mentioned by another poster ?

 

If the TM 27 exists since 1979, why there is nowhere information to find about it ? Could you provide any link please ?

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

TM27 is on page 5

 

8 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Documents from Immigration: ( no TM27 there )

https://immigrationbangkok.com/thailand-immigration-forms/

A few months ago it actually was there, see my post #19 here:

 

9 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

PS; my lawyers say that it looks that TM27 is going to be the new rule to enforce the old confusing TM28

I would say you should find a new lawyer who is able to read laws.

[Ratt Thai]

36 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Probably because you can't read.

 

They repealed the old police order from 1979: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

Replaced by the new police order (the one which you are reading)

 

It isn't a new regulation, it's merely quoting Thai immigration act section 37.2.

You can find one translation of it in this police order, another translation in the link which you posted in your previous post and the original Thai version here: https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=58b4f72454b2f90a80136447

I suggest reading the Thai version, then you don't have to rely on potentially wrongful translations.

 

Did you see any? I didn't. So i guess there are no exemptions.

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

TM27 is on page 5

 

A few months ago it actually was there, see my post #19 here:

 

I would say you should find a new lawyer who is able to read laws.

Dear Jackdd, Thanks for the links, they do clarify..

So i can say "i stand corrected" and thank you for that.

 

PS: even a good lawyer would need precise questions to understand what he's been asked about.
Oh well, just another day at the office...

[Lancelot01]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:31 PM, geronimo said:

The TM 99 will soon follow .. to be completed when you shop at Big C .......

Don't forget to bring your passport if you are paying for groceries at the same time.

[Kalasin Jo]

Recently told at the new (ish) Kalasin IO when wife and I went along on Jan. 16th to do TM 30 that this is only required when I  return from outside Thailand to our home, which I had. Moving around for stays/ holidays in Thailand does not require a TM 30 on returning home from such trips. No mention of TM 28 was made by IO  which in 8 years of coming and going in, out and around Thailand I have never done because not aware. In fact this is the first time my wife as the " house master" has ever done one.

 

So wife will have to do TM30 again as this does not actually seem to be covered by this amendment to TM 28 regulations ( as some posters here seem to think) after I return from getting new visa in Savanakhet ( and indeed every time I leave then return to Thailand ) in a few weeks but neither TM 28 nor TM 30 has  had to be done, at least at  Kalasin IO, after recent holiday trip to Phuket returning last Friday.

[Cat Boy]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:35 PM, rabas said:

But only when wearing a mask!

And only Chinese and Indians, "Europeans" not wearing a mask, will not pass go, and will not collect $200

[ThaiLawOnline]

Many people seems to complain, not understand, think everything is fine now, etc. Well, it is not as easy.

 

1) TM6 the government already stopped it for Thai people. About 2 years ago. They admitted it was not really used and promised to scrap it. That was after people started to complain about tm30.

 

2) for me, section 37 of the immigration act was more dangerous for foreigners than 38. An idiot who seems clever here by using links and letting people “it was never enforced” forgot to say that TM 30 (section 38 of the law) was also never enforced for maybe 25 years until Phuket decided to enforce it, then in March last year if I remember, Bangkok, etc. And it was applying to all travels inside the province for 24 hours.

 

now, section 37 has been changed, it was a part of the petition made, and a question asked to foreigners at the FCC by myself with a large number saying they never did it. Meaning the law is now applied because the main reason to apply section 38 (TM30) was the law is the law and we must enforce the law.

 

Well, times change, law changes and yes, they did change that.

 

3) as for TM30, in many areas of Thailand, after the protest, the local immigration told many foreigners, maybe not everywhere, you don’t have to do it, only if you leave Thailand, And actually, it is not you but your landlord.

 

so TM6 should be abolished soon.

article 37 was modified.

article 38, not applied unless recently, seems not to matter to all of us.

application online to do 90 days was improved.

government promised another applications next year to make it better.

 

if you have nothing to do and wish to complain or leave the country, up to you. My point, this is positive and without the petition, 7,000 foreigners signing it, help of Richard Barrow and Bangkok Post, it would have never happened. But some people in Thailand can nicely contact immigration, or the government, show them some problems, help the community and make it better.

 

How many keyboard warriors here behind nicknames have changes some laws or regulations in Thailand?

 

And our office does not even do visas. We received a small amount from people who wanted us to do something and we spent it all. My work was volunteer and I have permanent residency and don’t lose time with visa, tm30, 90 days notice.

 

it is unbelievable like people do not know how this project was setup, how it was delivered to immigration, who we talked to, and obviously tourism is down. Still, our initiative worked, maybe not 100%, but moved few things. And for that, I think all foreigners should be grateful instead of useless comments that are normally very negative to Thailand. I do not life this government, but I am happy with this change. What about a committee on dual pricing?

 

Now, what’s next and who wishes to participate? Is there any knowledgeable people here that wish to change parts of Thai law through negotiation or by court decision? Stop the whining and let’s move forward.

[gamesgplayemail]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:10 PM, Don Mega said:

Ive had to do the TM.30 many times but as my permanent residence has not changed ive never had to do a TM.28.

 

I never filled any form except airport form and will never.

 

 

[gamesgplayemail]

5 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

Many people seems to complain, not understand, think everything is fine now, etc. Well, it is not as easy.

 

1) TM6 the government already stopped it for Thai people. About 2 years ago. They admitted it was not really used and promised to scrap it. That was after people started to complain about tm30.

 

2) for me, section 37 of the immigration act was more dangerous for foreigners than 38. An idiot who seems clever here by using links and letting people “it was never enforced” forgot to say that TM 30 (section 38 of the law) was also never enforced for maybe 25 years until Phuket decided to enforce it, then in March last year if I remember, Bangkok, etc. And it was applying to all travels inside the province for 24 hours.

 

now, section 37 has been changed, it was a part of the petition made, and a question asked to foreigners at the FCC by myself with a large number saying they never did it. Meaning the law is now applied because the main reason to apply section 38 (TM30) was the law is the law and we must enforce the law.

 

Well, times change, law changes and yes, they did change that.

 

3) as for TM30, in many areas of Thailand, after the protest, the local immigration told many foreigners, maybe not everywhere, you don’t have to do it, only if you leave Thailand, And actually, it is not you but your landlord.

 

so TM6 should be abolished soon.

article 37 was modified.

article 38, not applied unless recently, seems not to matter to all of us.

application online to do 90 days was improved.

government promised another applications next year to make it better.

 

if you have nothing to do and wish to complain or leave the country, up to you. My point, this is positive and without the petition, 7,000 foreigners signing it, help of Richard Barrow and Bangkok Post, it would have never happened. But some people in Thailand can nicely contact immigration, or the government, show them some problems, help the community and make it better.

 

How many keyboard warriors here behind nicknames have changes some laws or regulations in Thailand?

 

And our office does not even do visas. We received a small amount from people who wanted us to do something and we spent it all. My work was volunteer and I have permanent residency and don’t lose time with visa, tm30, 90 days notice.

 

it is unbelievable like people do not know how this project was setup, how it was delivered to immigration, who we talked to, and obviously tourism is down. Still, our initiative worked, maybe not 100%, but moved few things. And for that, I think all foreigners should be grateful instead of useless comments that are normally very negative to Thailand. I do not life this government, but I am happy with this change. What about a committee on dual pricing?

 

Now, what’s next and who wishes to participate? Is there any knowledgeable people here that wish to change parts of Thai law through negotiation or by court decision? Stop the whining and let’s move forward.

 

 

Do you really feel like superman ?

You are so funny to think that you changed anything that was not about to change anyway...

 

 

 

[Don Mega]

22 minutes ago, gamesgplayemail said:

 

I never filled any form except airport form and will never.

 

 

That would be ideal however when I need to get a residency certificate they insist on a TM.30 so I don't see any other option than to do a TM.30, which takes only a few moment s to do online anyways.

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

2) for me, section 37 of the immigration act was more dangerous for foreigners than 38.

Most foreigners have always been exempt from TM28 (37(3) and (4))

Section 37(2) which does not exempt any foreigners (on temporary stay permits) has not been changed, it even got a new form to use.

We will see how 37(2) will be used in the future, but it could be that your petition made the situation worse in case they try to enforce section 37(2) (form TM27) for all foreigners now, instead of TM28 for just a few.

 

5 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

Now, what’s next and who wishes to participate? Is there any knowledgeable people here that wish to change parts of Thai law through negotiation or by court decision? Stop the whining and let’s move forward.

The main purpose of your petition, getting rid of TM30, has thus far not been achieved, so maybe you should try this before you pat yourself on the shoulder?

[Roy Baht]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:17 PM, BestB said:

I recall a large number of doom sayers who said that online petition was a waste of time and possibly could get you into trouble for signing . Those who were brave enough to start it and sign it can now laugh in your faces. 
 

well done Isaan lawyers and all who signed to get the attention and for something to change 

This has nothing to do with that moron Sebastian--who doesn't even have a proper law degree--did in his completely ignorant act of self-promotion. Anyone who has lived in Thailand for any length of time already knew that this was the way it was going to go. Farang have ZERO effect on law and policy changes in Thailand. It's all based on what the Thai gov't is capable of administering and what Thais in positions of power want.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

12 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

Now, what’s next and who wishes to participate? Is there any knowledgeable people here that wish to change parts of Thai law through negotiation or by court decision? Stop the whining and let’s move forward.

The main purpose of your petition, getting rid of TM30, has thus far not been achieved, so maybe you should try this before you pat yourself on the shoulder?

This is surely the main point. An amendment to Section 37 and the TM28 makes no difference to the fact that Section 38 and the TM30 regulations have not been changed at all.

 

Lest we forget, the petition was about abolishing the TM30. No one was bothered about the TM28 change of address form, because this is not what immigration were fining people left right and centre over. Every single newspaper article was about abolishing the TM30, and the form was named in practically all the headlines. The TM30 has not been abolished, it's baffling how the opening article has got this so wrong. 

 

 

[dave moir]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:21 PM, Chicken George said:

So.. No more reporting TM30. Which our local IO insisted I do even for one night away from my permanent address? 

Wrong! No more reporting TM28 not TM30

[Don Mega]

18 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

 

 

Lest we forget, the petition was about abolishing the TM30. No one was bothered about the TM28 change of address form, because this is not what immigration were fining people left right and centre over. Every single newspaper article was about abolishing the TM30, and the form was named in practically all the headlines. The TM30 has not been abolished, it's baffling how the opening article has got this so wrong. 

 

 

The lad from Issaanlawyers (creater of that TM.30 petition) has been in this thread blowing his own trumpet too !!

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

The lad from Issaanlawyers (creater of that TM.30 petition) has been in this thread blowing his own trumpet too !!

The article this thread is based upon is total <deleted>. Who cares about the TM28, a form very few have ever used?  

[Don Mega]

19 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The article this thread is based upon is total <deleted>. Who cares about the TM28, a form very few have ever used?  

its all about clicks not content.