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Jonathan Fairfield

TM28: Thai immigration scraps requirement for foreigners to report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

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3 hours ago, gamesgplayemail said:

oh so sad ! I didn't even have time to submit one of these idiot forms ❤️

 

As most of you can see, it is very smart to be an obedient-scare-by-his-own-shadow-foreigner !

 

you are so funny to follow these stupid laws ! I have never and will never, I have too much pride to follow as a foreigner sheep...

 

 

Ive had to do the TM.30 many times but as my permanent residence has not changed ive never had to do a TM.28.

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So where's the praise for the Thai government and immigration? It did take them a year but they got something right. Yes, I have been critical of some treatment of foreigners in this country but credit where credit is due. 

I don't think they listened to us that much, but they listened to the workload on their officers and the lack of positive results from keeping track of everybody or should I say the "bad guys" who weren't going to report anyway. . Maybe they realised they can do that with mobile phone records.  

And to make it worse, mostly what I read is farangs whinging and whining about is it really so or is it some kind of doublespeak, double bureaucracy trick?  Hey wake up and smell the roses. 

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3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Section 37 of the immigration act is not repealed.

This is a regulation issued by the commisioner under powers granted in section 37 of Imm Act

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

 

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

 

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 
If you reside at another place as initial indicated on your TM6 form ( at arrival )

So, any tourist, or any person that stay's at another adress then known to immigration computer/ TM6 card has to do a TM27 at immigration, within 24 Hrs

 

Yes, we might discuss about the word "residence" and we might agree on who of us is right in the interpretation of the word, but who knows the intend from the IO in your case or mine when he interpret the new rule ?

 

For me, it seems that the new rule is either more stringent or more conflicting with itself...

Or: they where confused themselves with the enforcement of the TM28 and now created another cashcow called TM27 which they want to enforce with more action ?

Edited by Ratt Thai
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On 2/20/2020 at 5:21 PM, Chicken George said:

So.. No more reporting TM30. Which our local IO insisted I do even for one night away from my permanent address? 

Sorry but i remeber that if your landlord did not fill in the TM28 the foreigner was punished with a fine. So you are still at the mercy of the system!! Or am i wrong.?

 

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21 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

So where's the praise for the Thai government and immigration? It did take them a year but they got something right. Yes, I have been critical of some treatment of foreigners in this country but credit where credit is due.

Alright, credit where credit is due > so ZERO credit in this case as basically NOTHING has changed.

Both TM-30 and 90-day reporting > NO changes.

Only some fiddling around with the regulations of TM-28 and TM-27, and in the process making the mess even more confusing and contradictory.

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20 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

 

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

 

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 
If you reside at another place as initial indicated on your TM6 form ( at arrival )

So, any tourist, or any person that stay's at another adress then known to immigration computer/ TM6 card has to do a TM27 at immigration, within 24 Hrs

 

Yes, we might discuss about the word "residence" and we might agree on who of us is right in the interpretation of the word, but who knows the intend from the IO in your case or mine when he interpret the new rule ?

 

For me, it seems that the new rule is either more stringent or more conflicting with itself...

Or: they where confused themselves with the enforcement of the TM28 and now created another cashcow called TM27 which they want to enforce with more action ?

One is a regulation  the other is an Act.

The regulation states that it is deriving its power from the act ( sec 37), and the regulation is repealing a former regulation.

 

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19 pages of nonsense and still nothing clear. Fortunately Ive never  done a TM30/Tm28/2726/5/4/3/2/1 and just renewed my Marriage extension.

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49 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

One is a regulation  the other is an Act.

The regulation states that it is deriving its power from the act ( sec 37), and the regulation is repealing a former regulation.

 

Please provide a link to find the source of your claim....
What former regulation are you referring to ?

 

Please read the fore mentioned act and regulation carefully and pay attention to the confusing details...

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Misleading <deleted>, I was happy for a while until finding out this is not about TM30 at all.

I only do TM30 when arriving with a new visa personally, and technically that is even legit in my case.
Usually I arrive at a hotel around the afternoon and leave in the morning, that is under 24 hours in total.

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1 hour ago, Ratt Thai said:

Please provide a link to find the source of your claim....
What former regulation are you referring to ?

 

Please read the fore mentioned act and regulation carefully and pay attention to the confusing details...

I am referring to the regulation that this new proposal states.

I have read this new regulation and the immigration act.

There is no provison in the immigration act to amend or repeal section 37. However there is in section 37 provisions to provide details of who is exempt from complying with sub sections (3) and (4) of section 37. The requirement to report to the local police.

 

The reason why section 2.1 and the 90 day reports are included is because this is a regulation concerning notification.

Edited by cleopatra2

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On 2/21/2020 at 11:56 AM, natway09 said:

Next step would be the non necessity to report the TM 30 upon returning from overseas 

if you are returning to the same address as on your old  departure & new arrivel TM 6.

As far as I am aware there is now no requirement to inform them after travel internally within Thailand.

"As far as I am aware there is now no requirement to inform them after travel internally within 

Thailand."

It depends on the local immigration office if you have to report when coming back to the last reported address when travelling in Thailand. There's no official rule. 

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2 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

 

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

I think you should pay more attention when reading.

The new police order clearly says: "By virtue of Section 37 [...] issues the regulation prescribing notification [...]"

It doesn't say anything about repealing content from the immigration act. The police general is not in the position to change laws. He can only change regulations which extend the law and which the law allows him to. In this case he changed the notification requirements (updated forms and making some people exempt).

3 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 

Point 2.1 in the police order is 37(2) in the law. Explanation for what?

 

3 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

now created another cashcow called TM27

TM27 exists at least since 1979 and afaik has not been used so far.

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5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I think you should pay more attention when reading.

The new police order clearly says: "By virtue of Section 37 [...] issues the regulation prescribing notification [...]"

It doesn't say anything about repealing content from the immigration act. The police general is not in the position to change laws. He can only change regulations which extend the law and which the law allows him to. In this case he changed the notification requirements (updated forms and making some people exempt).

Point 2.1 in the police order is 37(2) in the law. Explanation for what?

 

TM27 exists at least since 1979 and afaik has not been used so far.

Why do i feel as an idiot teacher , trying to explain how to read to ignorant students ?
You can read where it say's "repeal" don't you ? And what does it repeal ? And the repealed is replaced by what ?
And did you read the first sections of the immigration act on who can appoint who to do what ?
And this new regulation, specific point 2.1, what does it means ? who does to comply ?
Is there any exemption ? from 2.1 i mean ...

 

And where is the previous regulation as been mentioned by another poster ?

 

If the TM 27 exists since 1979, why there is nowhere information to find about it ? Could you provide any link please ?

Documents from Immigration: ( no TM27 there )

https://immigrationbangkok.com/thailand-immigration-forms/

 

PS; my lawyers say that it looks that TM27 is going to be the new rule to enforce the old confusing TM28, so what does your office say ?
They want to crack down on house owners for the TM30 and they now want to use the TM27 since the TM30 does not apply for the aliens per se.
Immigration had to back down on appeals and complaints for the TM28 and for the TM30, so the outcome is obvious...
 

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1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

I am referring to the regulation that this new proposal states.

I have read this new regulation and the immigration act.

There is no provison in the immigration act to amend or repeal section 37. However there is in section 37 provisions to provide details of who is exempt from complying with sub sections (3) and (4) of section 37. The requirement to report to the local police.

 

The reason why section 2.1 and the 90 day reports are included is because this is a regulation concerning notification.

Clearly: if i write "content of section 37 is repealed" would that be different then if i would write section 37 is repealed ?

Carefull: who have to comply with 2.1 from the new regulation ?

Strange: First you mentioned 2 regulations; a: the new one, b: the former one...

Regulation a i have... where is the former one ? The one that was repealed instead of content of section 37 ?

Links please

 

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2 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Why do i feel as an idiot teacher , trying to explain how to read to ignorant students ?

Probably because you can't read.

 

2 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

You can read where it say's "repeal" don't you ? And what does it repeal ? And the repealed is replaced by what ?

They repealed the old police order from 1979: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

Replaced by the new police order (the one which you are reading)

 

3 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

And this new regulation, specific point 2.1, what does it means ? who does to comply ?

It isn't a new regulation, it's merely quoting Thai immigration act section 37.2.

You can find one translation of it in this police order, another translation in the link which you posted in your previous post and the original Thai version here: https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=58b4f72454b2f90a80136447

I suggest reading the Thai version, then you don't have to rely on potentially wrongful translations.

 

6 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Is there any exemption ? from 2.1 i mean ...

Did you see any? I didn't. So i guess there are no exemptions.

 

7 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

And where is the previous regulation as been mentioned by another poster ?

 

If the TM 27 exists since 1979, why there is nowhere information to find about it ? Could you provide any link please ?

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

TM27 is on page 5

 

8 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Documents from Immigration: ( no TM27 there )

https://immigrationbangkok.com/thailand-immigration-forms/

A few months ago it actually was there, see my post #19 here:

 

9 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

PS; my lawyers say that it looks that TM27 is going to be the new rule to enforce the old confusing TM28

I would say you should find a new lawyer who is able to read laws.

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