Was a bullet planted in his luggage? American father trapped for months in Thailand

[jimmybcool]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Well you could give it to someone who already had all that?

So you mean give it to someone who smuggled a gun onto the plane.  Seems unlikely but OK if there was a shared effort to bring various parts of a gun and ammo on a plane THEN it is a factor.  

 

I was really commenting on the statement that vangrop made that you don't need a weapon to fire a bullet.  It's a pretty widely misconception from watching movies that believe you can ignite a bullet outside a gun and the bullet is propelled as if it was in a gun.  Like old westerns that have the hero throw bullets into the camp fire and bullets begin whizzing everywhere.  

 

The reality is - a round of ammunition is a case, propellant (gun powder), a primer and a projectile (bullet).  The primer is the part at the base of the round that the firing pin strikes igniting the propellant driving the bullet down the barrel of the gun.  Thing is, without a barrel and chamber creating pressure and forcing all the power of the exploding propellant to escape out the barrel the bullet isn't driven very hard.  So even if you are able to aim carefully enough with a sharp piece of metal to ignite the primer you might hurt your hand but certainly nothing on a plane to get upset about.  It would be more dangerous to throw the whole thing at someone and hope to hit them in the eye.  

 

I know.  It's nit picking but he said it and it kinda irked me.  Based on this being over a month old he might not ever read it anyway.

 

[VocalNeal]

If this is a hypothetical discussion. What would you think as a customs guy if you discovered a bullet in someones luggage? It is not something one would normally discover. Maybe in some societies it would be considered normal, but...

[Daffy D]

Mythbusters did story on this.

 

Seems because the cartridge case is lighter than the bullet it is the bit that goes flying off, not the heavier bullet.

 

Obviously both parts of the bullet go in opposite directions but because the explosion is not contained the force is greatly reduced, and a cartridge case is less likely to cause too much damage.   

Edited April 2, 2020 by Daffy D

[Dogmatix]

On 2/28/2020 at 5:22 PM, vangrop said:

I hardly can Believe its a set up. I think this guys stupidness or... is the main problem. I fully understand the reaction of the Thai authorities. Taking a bullet on an airplane is a terrorist thing. And you dont need a weapon to fire a bullet. Congratulations to the airport security and keep that guy in monkeehouse he has the bad profile.

 How do you fire it without a gun? If you hit it with a hammer it wouldn't go that far because it needs to the pressure from the chamber and barrel.  The threat to a plane would be if there was a team and he was going to pass the round to someone with a weapon.

 

I suppose he could have been a range and a round fell into his duffel bag accidentally but it does seem like a set up.

[jimmybcool]

7 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

If this is a hypothetical discussion. What would you think as a customs guy if you discovered a bullet in someones luggage? It is not something one would normally discover. Maybe in some societies it would be considered normal, but...

No comment on any of that.  I am merely correcting the statement that one can fire a bullet without the gun.  Do you dispute that? 

 

 

 

[Tounge Thaied]

11 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

 

I know this is an old thread.  Just wondering how you would fire a bullet without a gun.  Pretty sure it doesn't represent any threat without a chamber, barrel and firing mechanism.

Guberment security monkeys are not required to think... just follow orders. Bullet... it's on the list. He's a terrorist. Guberment monkeys... get it. 

[jimmybcool]

2 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Guberment security monkeys are not required to think... just follow orders. Bullet... it's on the list. He's a terrorist. Guberment monkeys... get it. 

I never questioned any of that.  I am merely trying to figure out how someone fires a bullet without a gun as claimed above.  Nothing more.

 

 

[gk10002000]

30 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

I never questioned any of that.  I am merely trying to figure out how someone fires a bullet without a gun as claimed above.  Nothing more.

 

 

It is not hard to fire the bullet without a gun.  You just need to slam something in the back of the bullet that acts like the firing pin that is on the hammer of a gun, give or take some variations.  Now if the shell casing is not anchored, as it is when in the chamber of the gun, the bullet really does not fly off very well.  It takes a few milliseconds for the powder charge to burn and build up pressure and propel the bullet down the shaft so a bullet that is not anchored tends to not get the full effect of the powder burning high pressure gas.  Many people and kids have done stuff like wedge a bullet in a fence, hold the shell with a pair of pliers, or whatever, and then manage to strike the back of the bullet properly and things light off.  Just look at the back of a standard bullet and you should understand.   Not to mention all the types of Saturday Nigh Specials people rig up with some sort of spring mechanism or ram rod that does not look much like a gun, but they manage to set off the bullet.

Edited April 2, 2020 by gk10002000

[jimmybcool]

28 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

It is not hard to fire the bullet without a gun.  You just need to slam something in the back of the bullet that acts like the firing pin that is on the hammer of a gun, give or take some variations.  Now if the shell casing is not anchored, as it is when in the chamber of the gun, the bullet really does not fly off very well.  It takes a few milliseconds for the powder charge to burn and build up pressure and propel the bullet down the shaft so a bullet that is not anchored tends to not get the full effect of the powder burning high pressure gas.  Many people and kids have done stuff like wedge a bullet in a fence, hold the shell with a pair of pliers, or whatever, and then manage to strike the back of the bullet properly and things light off.  Just look at the back of a standard bullet and you should understand.   Not to mention all the types of Saturday Nigh Specials people rig up with some sort of spring mechanism or ram rod that does not look much like a gun, but they manage to set off the bullet.

Correct.  And the net result is harmless on a jet.  No risk of killing anyone or opening a hole in the jet.  

 

The implication above was that you could fire it without the gun and create a hazard on the jet.  I am just trying to get the point across that without the gun the bullet is harmless.  

[GeoMill]

4 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

No comment on any of that.  I am merely correcting the statement that one can fire a bullet without the gun.  Do you dispute that? 

 

 

 

Interesting though. On youtube you can even find video's of people firing bullets with sunlight. Wether it causes enough damage to be a danger on a plane I'm not so sure. But I rather not find out.
 

[gk10002000]

10 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

Correct.  And the net result is harmless on a jet.  No risk of killing anyone or opening a hole in the jet.  

 

The implication above was that you could fire it without the gun and create a hazard on the jet.  I am just trying to get the point across that without the gun the bullet is harmless.  

No!  There are many ways to fire the bullet off without a gun!  It is relatively easy to make some sort of makeshift device using things that do not look like a gun but will fire off the bullet, i.e. Saturday Night special, many such things turn up in prisons often and they do not look like guns.  Some have sling shot looking things, .  All sorts of contraptions that could be made or assembled and work reasonably well.  McGiver's kid could do it. And a person could easily pack something on board that they built before hand, and the pieces would not raise any suspicions 

[jimmybcool]

16 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

No!  There are many ways to fire the bullet off without a gun!  It is relatively easy to make some sort of makeshift device using things that do not look like a gun but will fire off the bullet, i.e. Saturday Night special, many such things turn up in prisons often and they do not look like guns.  Some have sling shot looking things, .  All sorts of contraptions that could be made or assembled and work reasonably well.  McGiver's kid could do it. And a person could easily pack something on board that they built before hand, and the pieces would not raise any suspicions 

Then you have a GUN.  if it has a barrel and chamber and firing pin that defines what a gun is.

 

 

[gk10002000]

Just now, jimmybcool said:

17 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

No!  There are many ways to fire the bullet off without a gun!  It is relatively easy to make some sort of makeshift device using things that do not look like a gun but will fire off the bullet, i.e. Saturday Night special, many such things turn up in prisons often and they do not look like guns.  Some have sling shot looking things, .  All sorts of contraptions that could be made or assembled and work reasonably well.  McGiver's kid could do it. And a person could easily pack something on board that they built before hand, and the pieces would not raise any suspicions 

Then you have a GUN.  if it has a barrel and chamber and firing pin that defines what a gun is.

 

Siiigh.  You just insist on being argumentative.  You do not need a full chamber.  Just anchoring the shell is good enough.  The gases will expand and propel the bullet.  A barrel helps, and of course is good for rifling.  But you are being absurd.   There are things one can make that do not resemble a traditional gun shape.  Now run along. 

[jimmybcool]

25 minutes ago, GeoMill said:

Interesting though. On youtube you can even find video's of people firing bullets with sunlight. Wether it causes enough damage to be a danger on a plane I'm not so sure. But I rather not find out.
 

 

I have a friend that was a fireman.  I once asked him how they approach a house that may have gasoline in plastic jugs and ammunition by the case.  He said not a big issue for them.  He has heard ammo cook off in a fire but no rounds were being propelled at any speed.  And he saw a plastic gas contained melted to the gas line (waterline) and the gas was still there.  

 

He did express concern that loaded firearms with ammunition in the chamber was a concern.  If the round cooks off it is the same as if the gun was fired.  

 

BTW, how does sunlight fire a bullet?  I really don't understand your post.  And  I'd love to see those videos.  How should I search?

 

 

[jimmybcool]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

Siiigh.  You just insist on being argumentative.  You do not need a full chamber.  Just anchoring the shell is good enough.  The gases will expand and propel the bullet.  A barrel helps, and of course is good for rifling.  But you are being absurd.   There are things one can make that do not resemble a traditional gun shape.  Now run along. 

Ahh insult when you have nothing left.  You are being argumentative.  It requires more than anchoring the bullet.  The bullet will not propel fast enough to injure anyone without at minimum a barrel to force the gases down behind the bullet.  If you can prove different feel free.  But don't accuse me of being argumentative when it is you that is failing to make a point.

 

[ParkerN]

On 2/27/2020 at 12:13 PM, FritsSikkink said:

You are betting a lot on things of which you are very sure. they are only assumptions though without a shred of evidence. 

Right. On the other hand, I'll bet you are very careful next time you go through the airport - trusting or not.

 

This an opinion forum. opinions vary, mine is low, yours is high. Does that make you a better person? I don't think so. What you think is up to you and no concern of mine..

 

[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, jimmybcool said:

Ahh insult when you have nothing left.  You are being argumentative.  It requires more than anchoring the bullet.  The bullet will not propel fast enough to injure anyone without at minimum a barrel to force the gases down behind the bullet.  If you can prove different feel free.  But don't accuse me of being argumentative when it is you that is failing to make a point.

 

why don't you go back down to your Mom's bsement.  Put a large caliber bullet in a vise that grips it by the shell casing.  Then while standing in front of the bullet, whack the back of the shell with something similar to a firing pin that will fire the bullet.  Let us know how things work out

[nausea]

I'm guessing he did have a bullet in his luggage, why anyone would make such a big thing of it is beyond me. Like, I carry a bullet casing on my keyring, supposed to be good luck or something, Definitely remove it if I travel.

[jimmybcool]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

why don't you go back down to your Mom's bsement.  Put a large caliber bullet in a vise that grips it by the shell casing.  Then while standing in front of the bullet, whack the back of the shell with something similar to a firing pin that will fire the bullet.  Let us know how things work out

First, I buried Mom 2 years ago.  She lived to 92 and died peacefully.  As to my house in Arizona most of us don't have basements so I do most handy work in the garage.  Including the reloading bench.  I would not detonate even an empty case in my garage.  Doesn't make sense.

 

I have detonated a bullet outside a gun.  Not a rifle but .45.  I did it outside where I was shooting one day when I had a 1911 firearm that wasn't firing.  I wanted to make sure I hadn't loaded with defective primers.  Nope.  They were good,  it was the gun that wasn't striking properly.  The bullet didn't go very far.  I admit it was a low power load for practice.  Would it hurt?  Maybe.  Obviously we are not agreeing on the basic concept of what firing the bullet means.  

 

To me fired  means the bullet is moving with velocity.  Not bouncing off a seat rest.  And I also doubt anyone on a plane has a vice and hammer/punch to detonate a round.  I think you are grasping at straws to define how a person could detonate a bullet but aim or harm anyone?  Pshaw.  

 

Just for fun I did a search and found a youtube video of a 50 BMG bullet detonated outside of a barrel.  Consider the 50 BMG is a round capable of taking out vehicles and personal at long distance.  It is far more powerful than pretty much any firearm the typical person owns.  I am a gun owner with a variety of weapons and have nothing near that caliber.  Note the brass explodes and the bullet is sent forward.  Would I put my face in front of that?  No.  But it did not pierce the objects in front of it.  Which is kind of my main point.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ9jOGde4ws

 

 

 

 

 

[ParkerN]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

I'm guessing he did have a bullet in his luggage, why anyone would make such a big thing of it is beyond me. Like, I carry a bullet casing on my keyring, supposed to be good luck or something, Definitely remove it if I travel.

 

It's a known scam. Create a technical breach of anti-terrorism laws, then threaten to prosecute and if the victim doesn't cough up some dosh, go ahead and prosecute, the courts don't care about what's right and what isn't, they can't function without the police so there's quite a lot of back-scratching goes on. Justice is not on their mind, lists of crimes and fines is. I have a small personal experience of paid and unpaid back-scratching by the Thai judiciary

 

Someone needs to take the BiB round to the woodshed and explain why scamming the people you rely on for tourism dollars isn't the smartest thing in the world to do; the money goes up the tree anyway so nothing official will ever happen, check out the Red Bull incident for a demonstration of how Thai law enforcement works, and he killed a copper for Gawd's sake..

 

Bur then so far as I'm aware, nobody ever accused a Thai of being unusually smart, a low animal cunning is usually the best they can do. Preying on tourists or immigrants who expected better is their stock-in-trade. Unsuspecting victims.

 

Having said that, not all coppers and judiciary are corrupt, but all do accept that others of their ilk are.

 

 

[Tounge Thaied]

1 hour ago, ParkerN said:

 

It's a known scam. Create a technical breach of anti-terrorism laws, then threaten to prosecute and if the victim doesn't cough up some dosh, go ahead and prosecute, the courts don't care about what's right and what isn't, they can't function without the police so there's quite a lot of back-scratching goes on. Justice is not on their mind, lists of crimes and fines is. I have a small personal experience of paid and unpaid back-scratching by the Thai judiciary

 

Someone needs to take the BiB round to the woodshed and explain why scamming the people you rely on for tourism dollars isn't the smartest thing in the world to do; the money goes up the tree anyway so nothing official will ever happen, check out the Red Bull incident for a demonstration of how Thai law enforcement works, and he killed a copper for Gawd's sake..

 

Bur then so far as I'm aware, nobody ever accused a Thai of being unusually smart, a low animal cunning is usually the best they can do. Preying on tourists or immigrants who expected better is their stock-in-trade. Unsuspecting victims.

 

Having said that, not all coppers and judiciary are corrupt, but all do accept that others of their ilk are.

 

 

There are those deep within Thai society that are putting a stop to the Foreigner invasion of their country. This is one way to scare off the foreigner. The other is to continue to implement draconian immigration policies. Case in point, the recent announcement that tourists will get a visa extension, non-immigrants will not. 

[FritsSikkink]

11 hours ago, ParkerN said:

Right. On the other hand, I'll bet you are very careful next time you go through the airport - trusting or not.

 

This an opinion forum. opinions vary, mine is low, yours is high. Does that make you a better person? I don't think so. What you think is up to you and no concern of mine..

 

Enough concern to comment though.

[Woolsgibb60]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:02 AM, ChipButty said:

Anything is possible in Thailand who would you believe? was it his or did it get planted on him

 

Who remembers that shoplifting scam at the airports?

Yes like the u.k who was shopping in the shop in airport when the women pick a purse or wallet up she put it back a d left shop assistant went off and it was missing they stop the couple search nothing on them they check camera seeing her put it back but they still had her and her husband for I think £5000 at was the main scam at the airport with police and shops in with it

[jimmybcool]

12 hours ago, ParkerN said:

 

It's a known scam. Create a technical breach of anti-terrorism laws, then threaten to prosecute and if the victim doesn't cough up some dosh, go ahead and prosecute, the courts don't care about what's right and what isn't, they can't function without the police so there's quite a lot of back-scratching goes on. Justice is not on their mind, lists of crimes and fines is. I have a small personal experience of paid and unpaid back-scratching by the Thai judiciary

 

Someone needs to take the BiB round to the woodshed and explain why scamming the people you rely on for tourism dollars isn't the smartest thing in the world to do; the money goes up the tree anyway so nothing official will ever happen, check out the Red Bull incident for a demonstration of how Thai law enforcement works, and he killed a copper for Gawd's sake..

 

Bur then so far as I'm aware, nobody ever accused a Thai of being unusually smart, a low animal cunning is usually the best they can do. Preying on tourists or immigrants who expected better is their stock-in-trade. Unsuspecting victims.

 

Having said that, not all coppers and judiciary are corrupt, but all do accept that others of their ilk are.

 

 

I mean I get it if they pad bins or sell gems that aren't worth what you paid.  Fair game they fleece the tourists like many tourist meccas around the world.  But this is just mean.  Scaring people with prison time.  

[Joinaman]

13 hours ago, ParkerN said:

 

It's a known scam. Create a technical breach of anti-terrorism laws, then threaten to prosecute and if the victim doesn't cough up some dosh, go ahead and prosecute, the courts don't care about what's right and what isn't, they can't function without the police so there's quite a lot of back-scratching goes on. Justice is not on their mind, lists of crimes and fines is. I have a small personal experience of paid and unpaid back-scratching by the Thai judiciary

 

Someone needs to take the BiB round to the woodshed and explain why scamming the people you rely on for tourism dollars isn't the smartest thing in the world to do; the money goes up the tree anyway so nothing official will ever happen, check out the Red Bull incident for a demonstration of how Thai law enforcement works, and he killed a copper for Gawd's sake..

 

Bur then so far as I'm aware, nobody ever accused a Thai of being unusually smart, a low animal cunning is usually the best they can do. Preying on tourists or immigrants who expected better is their stock-in-trade. Unsuspecting victims.

 

Having said that, not all coppers and judiciary are corrupt, but all do accept that others of their ilk are.

 

 

Not all coppers are corrupt ??? wow, so how do they get their jobs and how do they pay for the "extras" that their bosses require ?

 

[rhodie]

MARCH 30, 2020by Camarri Schulz, Team Member

We are so happy to share that Michael arrived home from Thailand this weekend (Saturday, March 28, 2020). Thank you so much for your prayers & support. We send our love and prayers to everyone in these unusual days amid recent COVID19 concerns. Thank you again truly & stay well.

 

From the GoFundMe page.