Oxx Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, owl sees all said: China has 23,000 tonnes of gold. Yet still less than 2.5% of its reserves, so negligible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susco Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Oxx said: Did you get that from ignorant.com? Stock prices are based upon forecast dividend levels. BMW and VW are old industries, with limited growth prospects. Tesla is a new industry with massive growth potential. There are people who believe that Tesla's future growth justifies the high share price. Ignorant.com told me that Tesla has never issued a dividend, and there are no near future plans for that either, so where do you get your forecast dividend levels from? A few other high-flying stocks of the past, with share prices rising out of the pan that come to mind are Tyco - Worldcom - Enron. I guess they were also based on future earnings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Dog Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Google Perth Mint Buy 1 or two ounce gold coins. Remember, large amounts come under the money laundering rules. Look into it. Now about AUD 2680 an ounce. The idea about physical gold is you possess it. Full stop. The first thing in a time of war etc is the government will freeze all banks and safe deposits. Don't buy now, wait for calmer times, buy low. Bury it deep, trust no one. However, make sure son or wife (forget the Thai variety) know where it is! Mouth shut at all times. Never breathe a word about it. Forget banks and deposit boxes. Also remember, the tax man doesn't know about it which is very important. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 53 minutes ago, owl sees all said: China has 23,000 tonnes of gold. So think some people... China probably has much more than it says, while the US has much less...if any... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 53 minutes ago, Oxx said: Did you get that from ignorant.com? Stock prices are based upon forecast dividend levels. BMW and VW are old industries, with limited growth prospects. Tesla is a new industry with massive growth potential. There are people who believe that Tesla's future growth justifies the high share price. Tesla only survives thanks to the Fed's rate policy and massive money creation. Tesla is the ultimate Ponzi scheme, with investors opting out being paid by the cohorts rushing in, until the music stops... Meanwhile Elon Musk, the ultimate swindler, uses his money to buy real estate, rather than his own company's stock. VW and the "old industry" will crush Tesla with one thumb if they ever decide to compete in its car segment... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nero Dog said: <snip> The idea about physical gold is you possess it. Full stop. The first thing in a time of war etc is the government will freeze all banks and safe deposits. Don't buy now, wait for calmer times, buy low. Bury it deep, trust no one. However, make sure son or wife (forget the Thai variety) know where it is! Mouth shut at all times. Never breathe a word about it. Forget banks and deposit boxes. Also remember, the tax man doesn't know about it which is very important. What good sound sense and advice. BUT!!!!!!!!!! Now is the time to buy. If the Chinese virus starts killing millions; the US war machine decides to strike for oil in in Venezuela, or somewhere else, the EU implodes, or China has enough of US interferences. Israel goes to war with Iran, or Turkey with Russia (bringing in NATO). You will not see change from treble it is now. And consider, the China virus cannot be solved by printing trillions of dollars. Not sure what you would need to buy gold in the future: Bitcoin, Yuan (backed by gold). Definitely not the Dollar or Euro which will be long gone. We would probably return to goods for goods. "Forget banks and deposit boxes." Absolutely!! We must stay clear of any authority on this, or they will come for us. Army, state police and private militia. A word of caution. My friend Aussie Mark died 4 years ago and his ex and her family are still digging in their farm for the buried gold. Went past his old house recently, and they were out with metal detectors and a small JCB. Only give the map to a trusted family member or friend. Better still cut the map and directions into pieces and give them to people you trust. Edited March 8, 2020 by owl sees all 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, Brunolem said: So think some people... China probably has much more than it says, while the US has much less...if any... I agree. A bar-girl friend - who is a disciple of Max Keiser - informed me that they have close to 50k tonnes. As for the US. In the most recent audit, during Pres' Reagan's office, it was established that US had 15k tonnes, of which 4 tonnes were being looked after for other countries, and 10k tonnes were in private hands. These private hands were the FED, the IMF and other private US banks (most of which are owed by the English). The people of India have between 4 -6% of the world's gold (though not all in the form of pure gold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Susco said: Ignorant.com told me that Tesla has never issued a dividend, and there are no near future plans for that either, so where do you get your forecast dividend levels from? I guess they were also based on future earnings Did ignorant.com also tell you that Microsoft didn't pay a dividend for its first 16 years as a listed company? It first paid a dividend in 2003. It's perfectly normal for a fast growing company to plough its profits back with the intention of growing faster. Apple paid its first dividend in 2012. It now pays the largest dividend in the world. Facebook, Alphabet (aka Google), Amazon and Netflix still (AFAIK) haven't paid a dividend. Shares still doing pretty well (though personally I'd avoid Netflix). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazinoz Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Nero Dog said: Google Perth Mint Buy 1 or two ounce gold coins. Love to be able to buy the worlds biggest gold coin from the Perth Mint......1 tonne pure gold. Has a 1 million denomination but obviously worth much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazinoz Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 3 hours ago, owl sees all said: What good sound sense and advice. BUT!!!!!!!!!! Now is the time to buy. If the Chinese virus starts killing millions; the US war machine decides to strike for oil in in Venezuela, or somewhere else, the EU implodes, or China has enough of US interferences. Israel goes to war with Iran, or Turkey with Russia (bringing in NATO). You will not see change from treble it is now. And consider, the China virus cannot be solved by printing trillions of dollars. Not sure what you would need to buy gold in the future: Bitcoin, Yuan (backed by gold). Definitely not the Dollar or Euro which will be long gone. We would probably return to goods for goods. "Forget banks and deposit boxes." Absolutely!! We must stay clear of any authority on this, or they will come for us. Army, state police and private militia. A word of caution. My friend Aussie Mark died 4 years ago and his ex and her family are still digging in their farm for the buried gold. Went past his old house recently, and they were out with metal detectors and a small JCB. Only give the map to a trusted family member or friend. Better still cut the map and directions into pieces and give them to people you trust. My 37 baht Thai gold hidden and only 1 person in Australia knows where it is hidden. So if I snuff it she has to make trip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Oxx said: Apple paid its first dividend in 2012. It now pays the largest dividend in the world. Facebook, Alphabet (aka Google), Amazon and Netflix still (AFAIK) haven't paid a dividend. Shares still doing pretty well (though personally I'd avoid Netflix). " largest dividend in the world" ? Really ? it's dividend yield is a miserly 1.07% APPLE (NASDAQ:AAPL) DIVIDEND INFORMATION Apple pays an annual dividend of $3.08 per share, with a dividend yield of 1.07% (https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/AAPL/dividend/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, MikeN said: " largest dividend in the world" ? Really ? it's dividend yield is a miserly 1.07% APPLE (NASDAQ:AAPL) DIVIDEND INFORMATION Apple pays an annual dividend of $3.08 per share, with a dividend yield of 1.07% (https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/AAPL/dividend/) Some people are so obtuse. The total value of the dividend paid is the largest of any company in the world. Is that clear enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 14 hours ago, Oxx said: Some people are so obtuse. The total value of the dividend paid is the largest of any company in the world. Is that clear enough for you? And some people are financially obtuse .....it's the percentage return on your money, to you, that counts. Is that clear enough to you ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, MikeN said: .....it's the percentage return on your money, to you, that counts. Is that clear enough to you ? Exactly, and the return comes both from dividend income and capital growth. It matters not one hoot that Apple's dividend is 1.07% (ignoring taxation issues). The relatively low dividend is because they are ploughing money back into the company to help it develop new products and to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 19 hours ago, owl sees all said: I agree. A bar-girl friend - who is a disciple of Max Keiser - informed me that they have close to 50k tonnes. As for the US. In the most recent audit, during Pres' Reagan's office, it was established that US had 15k tonnes, of which 4 tonnes were being looked after for other countries, and 10k tonnes were in private hands. These private hands were the FED, the IMF and other private US banks (most of which are owed by the English). The people of India have between 4 -6% of the world's gold (though not all in the form of pure gold). A Thai prostitute who watches Max Keiser! Do you expect us to believe that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I've been buying gold and BTC since 2017, I wish Naam here as I told him back then to buy gold. What has happened to him anyway - jumped out a high window? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, Neeranam said: I've been buying gold and BTC since 2017, I wish Naam here as I told him back then to buy gold. What has happened to him anyway - jumped out a high window? In December 2017 Bitcoin reached US$19,783. It's now US$7,778, so basically less than half its 2017 value. For gold, the 2017 average closing price was US$1,260.39. Now it's US$1,671 - up 32%. Not bad, but compared with the S&P 500, that made 21.8% in 2017 (on a total return basis), and 31.5% in 2019. OK, it lost 4.4% in 2018, but it still leaves it massively ahead of gold. Naam knows what he's doing, and wouldn't benefit from your decidedly dodgy advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Oxx said: In December 2017 Bitcoin reached US$19,783. It's now US$7,778, so basically less than half its 2017 value. For gold, the 2017 average closing price was US$1,260.39. Now it's US$1,671 - up 32%. Not bad, but compared with the S&P 500, that made 21.8% in 2017 (on a total return basis), and 31.5% in 2019. OK, it lost 4.4% in 2018, but it still leaves it massively ahead of gold. Naam knows what he's doing, and wouldn't benefit from your decidedly dodgy advice. I started buying gold in 2001, at 5-6,000 baht and sold in 2012 at 26,000. Bought and sold again, making a slight loss. Gold has outperformed stock over the last 20 years. I started buying BTC at 88,000 baht. Now after a huge drop, it's 240,000. I sold a heap at about 600,000 baht. BTC is up 100% in a year(DURING A BEAR MARKET) I bought XRP at $0.007 and sold at $3 a few months later. I think you could do with some advice on general arithmetic. Edited March 9, 2020 by Neeranam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) The start of the Great Depression has started. I predict the Dow to fall to 22,000 in the next 2/3 days and to 15,000 in less than a month. Anyone holding stock now is deluded. I told my friends to sell 6 months- 1 year ago like Tim Draper. Edited March 9, 2020 by Neeranam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazinoz Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 32 minutes ago, Neeranam said: The start of the Great Depression has started. I predict the Dow to fall to 22,000 in the next 2/3 days and to 15,000 in less than a month. Anyone holding stock now is deluded. Nah, everything is rosy. Apparently according to a lot of experts on TVF. Australian markets dropped over 7% today, the biggest since 2008. Interesting to see what US markets do tomorrow. Don't know what's happening with other world markets. But hey, everything is rosy!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Oxx said: Exactly, and the return comes both from dividend income and capital growth. It matters not one hoot that Apple's dividend is 1.07% (ignoring taxation issues). The relatively low dividend is because they are ploughing money back into the company to help it develop new products and to grow. You have a very idealistic view of the world of business and finance. Apple has been making tons of money on the back of Chinese semi-slaves, and to the detriment of the states where it sells its products to its millions of cult-addicts-customers. The profits generated between its $ 1,000 retail price and less than $ 100 manufacturing cost, are stored in diverse tax havens, where they sleep... and are not invested at all in future development. The pile of money stored abroad reached such a ridiculous amount (more than $ 100 billion) that Apple decided to give some of it back to its shareholders as dividends... but not to its semi-slaves by the way. Apple is an extreme example of what is wrong with globalization, which may be on the verge of collapse thanks to a minuscule strand of DNA... let us pray... Edited March 9, 2020 by Brunolem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Dazinoz said: Nah, everything is rosy. Apparently according to a lot of experts on TVF. Australian markets dropped over 7% today, the biggest since 2008. Interesting to see what US markets do tomorrow. Don't know what's happening with other world markets. But hey, everything is rosy!!!!! Oh, there will be a huge drop tonight! The corrupt US govt. and fed have used all their trump cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Neeranam said: I've been buying gold and BTC since 2017, I wish Naam here as I told him back then to buy gold. What has happened to him anyway - jumped out a high window? Maybe he got the coronavirus... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Neeranam said: The start of the Great Depression has started. I predict the Dow to fall to 22,000 in the next 2/3 days and to 15,000 in less than a month. Anyone holding stock now is deluded. I told my friends to sell 6 months- 1 year ago like Tim Draper. Trump is gonna declare an emergency and shut down the markets indefinitely... just wait. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Trump is gonna declare an emergency and shut down the markets indefinitely... just wait. .. Can he do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Neeranam said: Gold has outperformed stock over the last 20 years. You're cherry picking your dates. 2000 was very much a low for the gold price. Let's look over 30 years instead. Over 30 years gold has gone from US$786 to $1701 - up 186%. The S&P 500 over the same period (on a total return basis) is up 813%. Again, I know which I'd rather invest in. Edited March 9, 2020 by Oxx Corrected % calculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Actually, one doesn't need to look over 30 years. Over 10 years gold is up 29% and the S&P 500 is up 168%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Neeranam said: Can he do that? Actually they might start by banning short selling, a usual move in situations of panic selling. Then, if that proves not enough, they can shut down the markets, like they did after 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 39 minutes ago, Oxx said: Actually, one doesn't need to look over 30 years. Over 10 years gold is up 29% and the S&P 500 is up 168%. Don't even bother...this chart says it all... And with regards to the bubbling indexes, let's wait a few weeks and see... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Don't even bother...this chart says it all... And with regards to the bubbling indexes, let's wait a few weeks and see... That chart is utter rollocks. In 1900 the gold price was US$20.67. In 2018, US$42.22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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