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Fake Land Titles In Samui


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Anyone read the latest Samui express?

Front page article: ’10,000 land titles fake said Land Office’ covering 20,000 to 30,000 rai says head of the land department. The article is not yet on their website so you have to buy the newspaper to read it.

Is the mess in Samui really this big or are these numbers exaggerated?

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Must concur with MID. Lots of people in for an expensive lesson but to a lot of those who have bought land will bury their heads in the sand and say we are just scaremongering. Time will tell!!!!

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How can the land office issue fake land papers ? I can understand if papers are upgraded illegally but that is different . Fake papers would be issued with a different owner when a legal paper already exists ? or are we talking forged land papers that are sold for a bit of land when it is already under a different ownership , or land papers issued for forest land that is untitled ?

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .

Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .

Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .

Quite often things are lost in translation..........

The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.

Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .

Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .

ued

Quite often things are lost in translation..........

The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.

Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.

Chanote is Chanote, if it's legally issued and duly registered in the Land Office, you can build on it. All the rest of this is BS.

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10,000 land titles fake. Avarage price say 25,000 usd per land title? (it is as they say 20,000 rai meaning 2 rai average per land title) Value 200,000,000 usd. Who got all this money? Somebody became very rich in the land office. I've got a Sor Kor 1 document for 2 rai, please my Thai rak Thai friend official make it 20 rai, just take some forest land nobody uses and we share the profit if we sold it to a brainless farang.

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .

Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .

ued

Quite often things are lost in translation..........

The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.

Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.

Chanote is Chanote, if it's legally issued and duly registered in the Land Office, you can build on it. All the rest of this is BS.

you are absolutly right chanot is a chanot if it was "Leagaly" issued.

But..... what happens f it is not legaly issued???

Samui has many land that were issued land title deed with out any legitamte cause. many of them have been sold a few times and seem legal but they are not.

40 years ago many land did not have a title deed and have been passed down from father to son. the govermant has intitiated a land upgrade to those lands about 40 years ago and gave them a Sor kor 1 title that was later approved to be upgraded to nor sor 3

Since Samui has become a real estate paradise about 10 years, and as land prices became more expansive. new land titles were issued to land plots that did not have land titles. ie forest land, toe bor 5 land an so on.

the titles ae on legitimate papaer and bare legitmate stamps. but they have been issued ileagaly!!

the most widely used scam was to issue a false sor kor 1 title that was preumably correct and then upgrade the title to nor sor 3. this could not be done with out the assitance of someone on the inside... and the motivation is there.

some of those lands were sold 3 or 4 times and they seem legit. but they are not. they are public lands or forrest lands that have been encroached and then made to have titles.

the fact the the papers seem in order and that the land office has registered all the land transaction does not conridict the basic fact that the land is false.

to examine if a land title is legit you need to ask the land office (as most serious lawyers will do) for the history of the land from the first land owner. if the first issue of a land title is from about 40 years ago when the land office started registering land then it is probably legit. however if the land has been issued the first ownership paper 7-10 years ago then it is probably not legit.

if you look at the old land office maps of Samui in the land office you can see that most of the proper owned lands were on the beach and mostly in the main towns.

in the hills and in in the inner part of the island most lands were farming lands under tor bor 5. so were did all those land titles come from???

a thai friend of mine was scamed to buy a plot of land from a distinguished well conected well known Thai on the island.

As it turns out she paid for the land and was not given any papers and was told that the land is tor bor 5 and that she need no worry as he will take care to make it legit. when i told her that he can not clear this matter as this is govermant land and under the law she can not buy it she just shrugged and said. you Farrang you do understand Thailand...

the DSI has been conducting an investigation at the land office for the past year together with the forest department and they have found many land titles that are false.

The question is what they will do about it?

will they confiscate the lands as they did in phuket?

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Anyone read the latest Samui express?

Front page article: '10,000 land titles fake said Land Office' covering 20,000 to 30,000 rai says head of the land department. The article is not yet on their website so you have to buy the newspaper to read it.

Is the mess in Samui really this big or are these numbers exaggerated?

A little tip for you don't believe everything you read in Samui Express and also you do not have to buy it it is a freebie!

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .

Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .

Quite often things are lost in translation..........

The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.

Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.

Womble, I am getting a little tired of you and others saying that all Samui lawyers are corrupt. Sure, in past that may have been true and thus it is a well deserved reputation and something to be aware of and watch out for on Samui. But the fact is it is just not true now. While I too would not trust most of the lawyers/"firms" on Samui, there are a few that are as good or better than what you will find in Bangkok and who have the local knowledge BKK lawyers do not and who don't have to be flown down here to work at your expense. There is even a firm here that has found several land titles to be doddgy and advised their clients accordingly. On the other hand, just because a lawyer is from BKK does NOT make them trustworthy or good!....not by a longshot.

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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.

Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .

Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .

ued

Quite often things are lost in translation..........

The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.

Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.

Chanote is Chanote, if it's legally issued and duly registered in the Land Office, you can build on it. All the rest of this is BS.

you are absolutly right chanot is a chanot if it was "Leagaly" issued.

But..... what happens f it is not legaly issued???

Samui has many land that were issued land title deed with out any legitamte cause. many of them have been sold a few times and seem legal but they are not.

40 years ago many land did not have a title deed and have been passed down from father to son. the govermant has intitiated a land upgrade to those lands about 40 years ago and gave them a Sor kor 1 title that was later approved to be upgraded to nor sor 3

Since Samui has become a real estate paradise about 10 years, and as land prices became more expansive. new land titles were issued to land plots that did not have land titles. ie forest land, toe bor 5 land an so on.

the titles ae on legitimate papaer and bare legitmate stamps. but they have been issued ileagaly!!

the most widely used scam was to issue a false sor kor 1 title that was preumably correct and then upgrade the title to nor sor 3. this could not be done with out the assitance of someone on the inside... and the motivation is there.

some of those lands were sold 3 or 4 times and they seem legit. but they are not. they are public lands or forrest lands that have been encroached and then made to have titles.

the fact the the papers seem in order and that the land office has registered all the land transaction does not conridict the basic fact that the land is false.

to examine if a land title is legit you need to ask the land office (as most serious lawyers will do) for the history of the land from the first land owner. if the first issue of a land title is from about 40 years ago when the land office started registering land then it is probably legit. however if the land has been issued the first ownership paper 7-10 years ago then it is probably not legit.

if you look at the old land office maps of Samui in the land office you can see that most of the proper owned lands were on the beach and mostly in the main towns.

in the hills and in in the inner part of the island most lands were farming lands under tor bor 5. so were did all those land titles come from???

a thai friend of mine was scamed to buy a plot of land from a distinguished well conected well known Thai on the island.

As it turns out she paid for the land and was not given any papers and was told that the land is tor bor 5 and that she need no worry as he will take care to make it legit. when i told her that he can not clear this matter as this is govermant land and under the law she can not buy it she just shrugged and said. you Farrang you do understand Thailand...

the DSI has been conducting an investigation at the land office for the past year together with the forest department and they have found many land titles that are false.

The question is what they will do about it?

will they confiscate the lands as they did in phuket?

First of all, let me say this, I posted what I said purposely to start a discussion. Highdiver, I'm glad you joined the discussion, I have respect for you. Typically, lands in Samui were issued land titles, as in most of Thailand, based upon agricultural occupation. Just use some common sense when evaluating a property. The farther away from the sea and the higher up the mountain you go, the less likely it is that land has a legally issued title. Of course, people are always looking for the good deal. Look for lands near the sea and not too far up the mountain, chances are their Chanote. They cost more money, though.

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