China says 'immoral and irresponsible' U.S. officials shift coronavirus blame

[rabas]

11 hours ago, Selatan said:

Not me. I'm a Malaysian. Anyway, the conspiracy theorists do have some science on their side:

Decoding evolution and transmissions of novel pneumonia coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) using the whole genomic data

To make a long story short, that paper talked about China having only Group C haplotypes whereas the US have the ancestral groups A and B and also descendant groups D and E, which led to the idea that C might only have come from the US.

That is not what the paper says. Your conclusion is nonsensical.

 

The paper only discusses evolutionary relationships, it does not say the virus came from the US.  Wuhan was well under way (and covered  up) long before the virus spread anywhere outside China. 

 

The paper agrees with other studies that have pointed out 1) patient 0 pre-dated the food market (Lab?) and 2) two major sub-types S and L evolved early in Wuhan.  Mild version type S came first and was quickly replaced by more aggressive type L, which devastated Wuhan.

 

The Chinese New Year caused S to quickly spread to other locations in China before L got going in Wuhan. All types are now in the US and devastating places like Iran, Italy, and South Korea.  If the paper proves anything it proves the CPP's initial cover-up is causing a world of hurt everywhere.

 

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202003/04/WS5e5f93aaa31012821727c542.html

 

 

 

[mfd101]

The Chinese are busily rewriting history before it's even been written!

 

Who says authoritarian governments aren't efficient?

[ExpatOilWorker]

9 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

The Chinese are busily rewriting history before it's even been written!

 

Who says authoritarian governments aren't efficient?

They are so blinded by their ideology that they are alienating themselves from the rest of the world.

It is the Wuhan virus, learn to live with it and bow your head in disgrace and apologize to the world.

The dying deserve it.

Nobody thinks, feels or associate anything bad about Spain, still the name Spanish flu stayed.

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

They are so blinded by their ideology that they are alienating themselves from the rest of the world.

It is the Wuhan virus, learn to live with it and bow your head in disgrace and apologize to the world.

The dying deserve it.

Nobody thinks, feels or associate anything bad about Spain, still the name Spanish flu stayed.

Who are the rest of the world that were alienated. Seem only Trump administration reacted with hardline stance. Trump’s sticks rather than carrots are creating more distrust. There were better collaborations for the SARS and H1N1 infections between US and China. 

 

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Comprehension problem?

No. You were unable to articulate any similarities. Thus, you have chosen to concede the issue. Pretty basic stuff.

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, Redline said:

The trump administration screwed up, but this is worth looking at

 

Good old Mao and his commie ideology were behind the famine that started it all ( and killed millions while at it ). Ain't communism grand.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

Edited March 14, 2020 by DrTuner

[natway09]

And the illegal wildlife trading of body parts  still persists in Whuhan

[rabas]

24 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The first 2 cases of corona virus was reported in January. HHS and CDC informed Trump and he didn’t do a thing until late Feb and still test kits were sadly inadequate. 2 weeks ago he boast that the virus will go away and seem uninterested until this Friday when he declared the National Emergency. That’s not even talking about how he undermined the CDC budget and personnel. His mismanagement fueled the current crisis.  

China waited until Dec 31 to inform the WHO even though patient 0 was reported on Dec 1, and knew patient 0 had nothing to do with the wet market. New records now show the government knew as early as Nov 17.  This is an astoundingly abysmal record (again) by the CCP that will cost the world millions of lives and trillions of dollars.

 

As the world, including China, should now come together to save what can be saved, the CCP and other posters choose to play Trump disorder games to save themselves? The  CCP nuclearized the current crisis.

[Selatan]

2 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

Sure Comrade!

So why did China:

1. Hide/deny existence of new virus for 2 critical months before finally admitting problem?

2.  actively work to suppress whistleblowers like the Chinese Dr. who subsequently died?   

3. "disappeared" several of their own journalists who were reporting on the spread of coronavirus and conditions inside Wuhan?

4. conveniently have the covid-19 genome already mapped, although refused to share this with world medical bodies;

5. Refuse to cooperate or allow WHO investigators into Wuhan?

6. Suspiciously have a bioweapons lab located only 300 meters from the wet market vector site?

7.  Declare war on the USA for waging biological warfare on citizenry/noncombattants in Wuhan/China?

 

If China has proof, even the staunchest US allies would abandon America for this attrocity.

Actually they didn't hide the existence of the virus. There was a new expensive system set up after the SARS crisis to report any infectious disease but because many doctors didn't want to deal with the bureaucratic process involved (such as need confirmation from hospital administrator), many hospitals didn't use it and the result was many doctors didn't even know that such a system existed.

If the Chinese CDC was not told about the emergence of a new disease, the local authorities would assume that anyone spreading rumours would be spreading fake news. That was the case of the ophthalmologist Dr. Li who shared the news with his colleagues.

[Selatan]

15 minutes ago, rabas said:

China waited until Dec 31 to inform the WHO even though patient 0 was reported on Dec 1, and knew patient 0 had nothing to do with the wet market. New records now show the government knew as early as Nov 17.  This is an astoundingly abysmal record (again) by the CCP that will cost the world millions of lives and trillions of dollars.

 

As the world, including China, should now come together to save what can be saved, the CCP and other posters choose to play Trump disorder games to save themselves? The  CCP nuclearized the current crisis.

It's never easy dealing with a totally new disease, as my own government in Malaysia had found out at huge a cost back in 1998. It took the authorities many months to discover their mistakes after misdiagnosing the Nipah virus crisis as a Japanese Encephalitis epidemic. I wouldn't be surprised if someone do a posthumous test now on victims of 2019 seasonal flu in the US to find that some of them have actually died from Covid-19.

[WaveHunter]

The narrative that China's CCP is trying to spin now is laughable to anyone who's followed this crisis from the outset, but strangely it's gaining traction not only within China (particularly among older members of the "Lost Generation"), but surprisingly among  Western Media, particularly media outlets and governments of those countries aligned with China's Belt and Road Initiative. 

 

And of course the World Health Organization, who have proven to be more concerned about the political aspects of the virus than with the public health aspects (which is what their real job should be) have only aided China in this false narrative. 

 

There's nothing new going on here.  This is a template that the Chinese Communist Party resorts to over and over with almost every historical crisis that has occured in China since they came into power.  First, shift the blame from the CCP to the local government bureaucrats, and then shift the blame out of China to a member of the international community (usually the US) as phase 2 of their plan.  Noting new here at all.  It's just business as usual for the CCP.

Edited March 14, 2020 by WaveHunter

[Selatan]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

That is not what the paper says. Your conclusion is nonsensical.

 

The paper only discusses evolutionary relationships, it does not say the virus came from the US.  Wuhan was well under way (and covered  up) long before the virus spread anywhere outside China. 

 

The paper agrees with other studies that have pointed out 1) patient 0 pre-dated the food market (Lab?) and 2) two major sub-types S and L evolved early in Wuhan.  Mild version type S came first and was quickly replaced by more aggressive type L, which devastated Wuhan.

 

The Chinese New Year caused S to quickly spread to other locations in China before L got going in Wuhan. All types are now in the US and devastating places like Iran, Italy, and South Korea.  If the paper proves anything it proves the CPP's initial cover-up is causing a world of hurt everywhere.

 

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202003/04/WS5e5f93aaa31012821727c542.html

 

 

 

That's the conclusion of the conspiracy theorists after reading the research paper, not mine. The paper didn't conclude that virus came from the US, but it is intriguing that the US have all the haplotype groups ABCDE whereas China only has C.

[Eric Loh]

47 minutes ago, muzley said:

Thanks god Trump is in charge and closed off travel from China!! God knows what would of happened if Joe China was in charge!!

Wrong. It was a travel restriction issued on 31 Jan and not a ban and was late. The horse has bolted and infection has been spreading since then. 
 

“Azar explained when he announced the travel restrictions on Jan. 31, the policy prohibits non-U.S. citizens, other than the immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have traveled to China within the last two weeks from entering the U.S.

At a House subcommittee hearing on the coronavirus on Feb. 5, Ron Klain, White House Ebola response coordinator under the Obama administration, took issue with the characterization of the travel restrictions as a travel “ban.”

“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”

“There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health restriction, we have not placed a meaningful public health restriction.”

Indeed, on Jan. 24, a week before the travel restrictions, the CDC confirmed two cases of the novel coronavirus in the U.S. from people who had returned from Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began.

Furthermore, Klain said, the import of goods from China is exempt from the travel restrictions, “and, of course, the people who fly the planes and drive the boats that bring those goods from China. We couldn’t ban that activity. We vitally need that. Ninety percent of the antibiotics in this country come from China. All kinds of vital medical supplies … we will use to treat people. So, travel bans … that’s not what we’re imposing, that’s not what exists.”

 

[jany123]

On 3/13/2020 at 3:29 AM, ukrules said:

This is going to turn into a financial issue in the coming years.

 

China will be made to pay dearly for the creation (regardless of source) and subsequent cover up followed by the export of this virus around the world.

 

Think of war reparations, they will pay one way or another. Probably in the form of punitive taxes.

 

Logically, China should receive imf funding to help develop better methods of controls and containment, moving forward, verses face any financial repercussions that might make it even less able to battle the next killer, mutating in its interior.

 

think of war reparations? Sure, why not, seems as logical as punishing a developing country because a disease started there... anything to maintain first world supremacy... whilst doing nothing positive to prevent future virus’s from developing. That to me sounds like a reckless and irresponsible tact... kudos. 

[WaveHunter]

Anyone who doubts that this virus originated in Wuhan need only become familiar with a report from The Lancet , written by Chinese researchers, and published 24 January 2020.  For those who are not familiar with The Lancet, it is probably the most well respected, peer-reviewed source of medical and scientific information in the world, and since it publishes papers from all countries of the world, there is no political bias to what they publish.

 

The report notes that Chinese authorities originally said that the first coronavirus case was reported on 31 December and many of the first cases of the pneumonia-like infection were immediately connected to a seafood and animal market in Wuhan.  However, this report, authored by Chinese researchers claims that the first person to be diagnosed with Covid-19, was actually on December 1, 2019 (a full month earlier) and that person had "no contact" with the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, though the early case was clearly in Wuhan.

 

Naturally this leads a lot of people to have conspiracy theories centered on "if not the wet market than where", and a lot more people to question why almost a whole month went by before Chinese authorities took any sort of official actions...but I am NOT addressing conspiracy theories here, nor am I questioning why there was such a delay in reacting.  I am only making the point that Wuhan is unquestionably ground zero for the first reported case.

 

Again, the source is a group of Chinese researchers, led by Dr. Wu Wenjuan, and it was reported in The Lancet which is the unquestionable "gold standard" of medical and scientific information in the entire world!  How much more compelling can the evidence be?

 

It also should be noted that even after all this time, China has still not been able to identify (or is not releasing the identity) of "Patient Zero".  I will voice no opinions but think about that.

 

The report from The Lancet:  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by WaveHunter

[jany123]

4 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

Sure Comrade!

So why did China:

1. Hide/deny existence of new virus for 2 critical months before finally admitting problem?

2.  actively work to suppress whistleblowers like the Chinese Dr. who subsequently died?   

3. "disappeared" several of their own journalists who were reporting on the spread of coronavirus and conditions inside Wuhan?

4. conveniently have the covid-19 genome already mapped, although refused to share this with world medical bodies;

5. Refuse to cooperate or allow WHO investigators into Wuhan?

6. Suspiciously have a bioweapons lab located only 300 meters from the wet market vector site?

7.  Declare war on the USA for waging biological warfare on citizenry/noncombattants in Wuhan/China?

 

If China has proof, even the staunchest US allies would abandon America for this attrocity.

And yet the world health organization is congratulating China on its transparency and sharing of information.

 

something doesn’t add up... and until it does, taking anything coming out of America, a nation that has downplayed the severity of the virus to protect the stock exchange, as a truth, seems naive.... Personally, I will defer to the WHO, over anything American, whilst it is ruled by a leader whom cannot speak without lying.

 

no one believe the little boy who cried wolf... a lesson worth remembering, I would have thought.

Edited March 14, 2020 by jany123

[Isaan sailor]

China wants to change the narrative.  They along with the China-compliant WHO came up with the name Covid-19 to remove any geographic reference to Communist China.

For my reference, it’s the Wuhan Virus.  Let’s give credit, where credit is due.

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed.

 

Some bickering posts and replies have been removed. 

[Traubert]

4 hours ago, natway09 said:

And the illegal wildlife trading of body parts  still persists in Whuhan

How in the name of John B. Goode would you know? No-one has been allowed in or out of Wuhan for almost seven weeks?

 

If it's Youtube, don't even bother.

[Tug]

Hey it’s all the trump administration has blame and deflection it’s all they got it doesent really matter were it started it’s the response that’s important 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Tug

[Logosone]

5 hours ago, natway09 said:

And the illegal wildlife trading of body parts  still persists in Whuhan

They can eat anything they want provided they use proper hygiene. Surely it is the deficiency in hygiene that caused our unknown patient zero to slaughter the animal and wipe his face with the faeces or blood on them near his face?

 

By all accounts in rural China hygiene standards are several times lower than in most Asia. I don't get that, how can Japan, Korea, Thailand, Philippines and even Indonesia be known to be very clean, whereas the Chinese have such low hygiene standards? Why is that?

[Brigand]

One unexpected outcome/cost for China and few other countries is that western companies may well consider these long lines of production, delivery etc. at the last minute a liability after all this is done and that may equal more expensive goods that are made/sources closer to home. This might be a silver lining and could also be good for western economies and there will be more jobs created due to this screw up of relying on just China for everything. Change will come after this all blows over and I bet company boards are already planning to mitigate the failings of this all for the next time round.

[Crazy Alex]

38 minutes ago, Tug said:

Hey it’s all the trump administration has blame and deflection it’s all they got it doesent really matter were it started it’s the response that’s important 

Response? You mean like restricting travel from China in January? Bad move?

 

AND... if our CDC released a contagion and it spread to China and China had a lousy response, you'd criticize China's response and not the CDC and Trump? I find that incredibly difficult to believe.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Crazy Alex

[Puccini]

Quote

 

The first case of someone in China suffering from Covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, can be traced back to November 17, according to government data seen by the South China Morning Post.

...

 

Source: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3074991/coronavirus-chinas-first-confirmed-covid-19-case-traced-back

 

The emphasis here is on "traced back", ie when the patient was examined on November 17, 2019 the doctor did not know that this was a new virus. Only after SARS-CoV-2 was identified and it was tracked back was it discovered that a patient dealt with on November 17 had the same virus.

[Traubert]

52 minutes ago, Logosone said:

They can eat anything they want provided they use proper hygiene. Surely it is the deficiency in hygiene that caused our unknown patient zero to slaughter the animal and wipe his face with the faeces or blood on them near his face?

 

By all accounts in rural China hygiene standards are several times lower than in most Asia. I don't get that, how can Japan, Korea, Thailand, Philippines and even Indonesia be known to be very clean, whereas the Chinese have such low hygiene standards? Why is that?

By all who's accounts?  India has only 50% with access to a toilet and running water. I've never seen a stat like that about China? Are you sure on what patient zero did or have you made that up as well? Wipe his face near his face? What does that even mean?

[zydeco]

32 minutes ago, Traubert said:

By all who's accounts?  India has only 50% with access to a toilet and running water. I've never seen a stat like that about China? Are you sure on what patient zero did or have you made that up as well? Wipe his face near his face? What does that even mean?

China cleaner than India? That makes China the tallest midget.

[Roadkillaf]

It's the wu-flu. Red locust feelings will only be spared by those receiving funding from said group. 

[WaveHunter]

18 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

China wants to change the narrative.  They along with the China-compliant WHO came up with the name Covid-19 to remove any geographic reference to Communist China.

For my reference, it’s the Wuhan Virus.  Let’s give credit, where credit is due.

Exactly right.  There's been a lot of emphasis by the World Health Organization as well as main stream media, telling everybody to make sure you don't call it the Wuhan Flu or the Chinese VIrus or anything like that.  The WHO wasted valuable time trying to come up with a name for the virus that would not stigmatize China in any way; precious time when they should have been doing what their job really is, and that is to protect the public health of the global community.  

 

Why is every other significant virus referred to according to its' geographic source, but the Wuhan Flu is not?

• The German Measles originated in Germany.  Is Germany stigmatized because of this?
• The Ebola virus was named after the river in The Congo where it originated.
• Lyme disease originated in Lyme Connecticut in the United States.
• The Zika virus originated in the Zika Forest of Uganda
• Japanese Encephalitis; guess where that comes from?  Is Japan stigmatized or hated for this?
• The Spanish Flu; while it did not not actually originate in Spain, that is where it first began to be reported while other countries tried to keep it under wraps from the Public.  It's interesting to note that even though it has absolutely been proven to not have originated in Spain, the WHO continues to refer to it as the "Spanish" Flu.  Why did they go to great lengths to rename the Wuhan virus, and not the Spanish Flu?  The reason is obvious for anyone that follows how the WHO has reacted to the present outbreak.
•  MERS; the Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome, which originated in the Middle East.
• The Marburg Virus, which comes from the German city Marburg.
• The West Nile Virus, which comes from the Nile River which runs through Egypt and Northern Africa.
• The "Philly Sickness" (Legionnaires Disease); guess where that came from?...Philadelphia in the US, where all the Legionnaires became ill in a hotel where the water tower became infected with bird feces. 
• Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (one of the most horrific tick borne infections you can get); originated in the Rocky Mountains in the US.
• Norwalk Virus (Noro VIrus): originated in Norwalk Ohio USA, and its' spread had been reported all around the world including in China.

Why does the geographic naming of a virus matter?  Because it is correct and important to know where the virus originated from.  Nobody hates Germany because of the German Measles.  Nobody hates any of the places where the above lists of viruses comes from.  There is no stigmatization associated with the geographic naming of the virus at all. 

 

So, there has to be another reason that the WHO went to extraordinary lengths in renaming the virus, and the real motive was obviously a political one!

 

It's obvious why China's government, the CCP, want to distance themselves from this virus, and in classic fashion are now trying to spread the narrative that it did not even originate in China but came from another country, which is of course laughable to anyone who's followed this outbreak from the outset.  That of course would be very hard to do if the name of the virus referenced China in any way.

 

The World Health Organization acted on the behalf of the Chinese CCP's to disassociate China from this virus, through their politically driven actions during the outbreak within China, and they continue to do so as the virus spreads around the world. 

 

There can be no other reason why the WHO would go to the lengths they did in renaming the virus, especially when you consider that it wasted valuable time that should have been spent in trying to contain the outbreak and educate the global community about the reality of the situation, instead of hiding it from them in order to protect the political and economic interests of China's CCP. 

 

In failing to do their job as they should have done, the WHO has caused many countries to not take early proactive measures, and the situation right now in Italy for instance, is the result!  For the countries that ignored the WHO's politically driven rhetoric, such as Taiwan (who is not even allowed to participate in WHO conferences...I wonder why?), and countries like South Korea, and Singapore, the outcome has been far different.  Those countries took early and very aggressive proactive measures, and those measures are beginning to pay off.

 

Other countries of the world should place more stock in how those countries are dealing with this outbreak, and far less in what the WHO has to say IMO.

 

As for myself, I will continue to call it the Wuhan Flu, because that most accurately describes it in people's minds.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by WaveHunter

[OJAS]

19 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

By all accounts in rural China hygiene standards are several times lower than in most Asia. I don't get that, how can Japan, Korea, Thailand, Philippines and even Indonesia be known to be very clean, whereas the Chinese have such low hygiene standards? Why is that?

Believe it or not, there does appear to be a food hygiene law in force in China:-

 

http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Law/2007-12/12/content_1383724.htm

 

I can therefore only surmise that those who are responsible for enforcing it have been "persuaded" to look the other way by steady supplies of well-stuffed brown envelopes.

 

[metisdead]

A post using a derogatory ethnic slur comment toward Japanese people has been removed as well as the replies.