Jump to content
BANGKOK
snoop1130

Doi Suthep disappears in haze pollution

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

Nothing will happen on a regional basis  because it is not whole countries enveloped in smog.  Bangkok/S Thailand/large parts of Laos including Vientiane/S Myanmar are all largely unaffected. So they don't give a ------ what happens to large parts of their countries which are traditionally agricultural and poorer. This is why a regional solution relying on national governments will not work.

These monopolistic governments (as well as the Chinese govt) couldn't care a less if these areas become the trash dumps of Asia.

Respectfully, have you looked at the firemaps, Myanmar and Laos contain far more burning sites than does Thailand, Northern Myanmar and all of Laos are one big fire? I simply cannot believe those countries are not affected by the pollution to the same or a greater extent than is Thailand, anyone looking at the firemaps objectively would regard Thailand as being the least of the regions worries. I'll reinforce yet again that Thailand should lead the way and do something but the lasting solution is a regional issue, an ASEAN issue and anything Thailand does alone will not be effective.

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#z:6;c:102.6,17.7;d:2020-03-13..2020-03-14;l:countries,firms_noaa20-viirs,firms_viirs,firms_modis_a,firms_modis_t

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is already an agreement on Transboundary haze pollution (ASEAN), which seems to have failed.

https://www.greenpeace.org/southeastasia/press/3239/a-haze-free-asean-by-2020-are-we-there-yet/

 

If you have governments that benefit from a part of their country being handed over to corporate monoculture  and poverty, then of course they will not be screaming "Help" to Asean. This is precisely the problem, the benefits outweigh the problems for those in charge. You have to have a government that wants to stop the smoke. If you transported every single one of those in charge up to the worst of the affected areas and made them live with no AC / closing windows in the middle of the smoky season, I guarantee the air would improve overnight.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It doesn't appear as though Thailand would have a problem lodging a very large complaint, the problem appears to be Shah State, not so much Thailand:

 

From your link:

 

  • Between December 2018 to May 2019, there were a total of 6,879 fire hotspots within maize plantations of Upper Northern Thailand.
  • Between December 2018 to May 2019, there were a total of 14,828 fire hotspots within maize plantations of Shan State of Myanmar

From this research, the area of maize plantations in Shan State of Myanmar has increased alarmingly within only six months (from 400,660 hactares or 4,006.6 square kilometers in December 2018 to 1,206,933 hactares or 12,069.33 square kilometer in May 2019). However, there is no publicly available information on who occupies/uses the land, and specifically how land or forest fires originate.

 

a6d118da-mekong1.png

 

3b7dc049-mekong2.png

 

Edited by saengd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Ahhhhhh, right then! Sound of coin dropping.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Interesting that, despite the existence of your second link,  Greenpeace says, " However, there is no publicly available information on who occupies/uses the land, and specifically how land or forest fires originate".

Edited by saengd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have an answer for that one, it's a clever business set up that leaves all parties looking clean as a whistle, the only people who suffer are Thai residents who can genuinely point across the border as being the cause of the problem, even gov.th is clean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the whole idea, in that lack of regulations and education mean it is very difficult to trace who is creating the problem.

It is very convenient to have neighbouring countries with a large percentage of subsistence farmers, lack of education and high level of corruption.

Thais look clean because you point at Burma and Burmese don't care because its Shan State and I suppose just there for their use as a money making trash can.

The same of course would go for Laos.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what the solution is to this problem but I do know that one of the steps must be to raise awareness. I'd previously heard the odd story about Laos being used as a proxy for Chinese maize but this is the first time in almost twenty years that I've been able to join up the dots, so thank you for posting those links.

 

It seems clear to me that instead of farangs bleating about Somchai in Thailand burning his crops they need to be complaining about a different and much bigger problem, Shan State and Laos and that conglomerate that shall not be named. That is not to say there isn't a Thai problem inside Thai borders but from a burning perspective it's a much much smaller problem than the first one....I suspect very very few people understand that. 

 

I highly recommend people read those links.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, cmsally said:

That is the whole idea, in that lack of regulations and education mean it is very difficult to trace who is creating the problem.

It is very convenient to have neighbouring countries with a large percentage of subsistence farmers, lack of education and high level of corruption.

Thais look clean because you point at Burma and Burmese don't care because its Shan State and I suppose just there for their use as a money making trash can.

The same of course would go for Laos.

 

Coming back to the original point for a moment which is whether the majority of the pollution problem originates inside Thailand or beyond its borders: the Greenpeace report makes it clear that last year there was twice the number of hotspots in Shan State (SS) than there was in northern Thailand and that the growing area was at least twice as large. Anecdotally, the pollution problem seems to have worsened over the past five years which seems to be reflected in the increase of growing area in SS. I've not seen any reference to the number of fires or growing area in Laos but in just looking at the volume of hotspots on the NASA firemaps I estimate there are twice as many if not more. Those things suggest Thailand is surrounded by near neighbors where the volume of fires is between four and six times that of Thailand, do you agree?

 

Offshore winds from the East and West coasts of Vietnam and Myanmar mean that air currents converge in Thailand which is right in the middle of the landmass, it seems inescapable that Thailand suffers as a result, windmaps seem to confirm this is the case with the greater impact coming from the East.

 

I has always thought that blown in pollution was a lesser problem when compared to home grown pollution, I am now convinced the homegrown variety is dwarfed by what's happening in neighboring countries, possibly even as much as 70/30 but that's just a guess. 

 

The fact that Thai business might be responsible for at least part of the problem makes a solution difficult to imagine. There will be almost no chance the people of Laos or Myanmar will want to force change which leaves the onus for it on the Thai population and ASEAN as a whole. ASEAN seems likely to be impotent in this case and the Thai population hamstrung by a government that is not fully democratic and is at least partially corrupt. Perhaps climate change and drought offer a partial solution although the Chinese annexation of the Mekong seems to have covered that base.

 

I don't know, I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks the solution is to that problem, it seems clear however that complaining about Thai farmers home grown burning is not part of the bigger problem, or the solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Visibility very low today, many drivers have lights on.

My Accuweather phone app says it is Fog! 😀

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh please, those on thread bleating about Shan State and Laos just don't get it. Doi Suthep is on fire NOW. It's local action.

There is a fairly simple solution to the air pollution problem. Fine and jail the poo yais in any villages where the fires occur. Confiscate private property of any landowner burning off. Without compensation.

It wouldn't take long for the message to sink in.

Not that it's ever going to happen.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Oh please, those on thread bleating about Shan State and Laos just don't get it. Doi Suthep is on fire NOW. It's local action.

There is a fairly simple solution to the air pollution problem. Fine and jail the poo yais in any villages where the fires occur. Confiscate private property of any landowner burning off. Without compensation.

It wouldn't take long for the message to sink in.

Not that it's ever going to happen.

What I get is that yet again TVF posters demonstrate their need for easy simple answers and most often don't look beyond the end of their nose, let alone read reports or studies, even when they do contain pretty pictures and easy to read graphs! Here, tell me what you think I don't get:

 

"I have always thought that blown in pollution was a lesser problem when compared to home grown pollution, I am now convinced the homegrown variety is dwarfed by what's happening in neighboring countries, possibly even as much as 70/30 but that's just a guess". 

Edited by saengd
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, saengd said:

What I get is that yet again TVF posters demonstrate their need for easy simple answers and most often don't look beyond the end of their nose, let alone read reports or studies, even when they do contain pretty pictures and easy to read graphs!

Ok, let's hear your better answer. Please, no BS about education. The Thai education system is dedicated to dumbing down the populace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Ok, let's hear your better answer. Please, no BS about education. The Thai education system is dedicated to dumbing down the populace.

You could try reading post number 40, OR, you could read the Greenpeace report that Sally posted earlier, OR, you could just look at the graphs I extracted and posted from it above, OR, you could just read the following. But if you want your very own personalized "better answer" described just for you, you're going to be SOL!

 

"I has always thought that blown in pollution was a lesser problem when compared to home grown pollution, I am now convinced the homegrown variety is dwarfed by what's happening in neighboring countries, possibly even as much as 70/30 but that's just a guess". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...