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Asinine and unfair closings


Trujillo

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Still, 4 people have died out of a total population of 69 million. 

 

Outrageous and awesome overkill in closings. 

Check out the Sweden model (and then compare with neighbor Denmark, who has gone full Monte with closures, yet have three times the deaths). 

 

So, I need to go to the aquarium supply shop for something for my tropical fish. I assume that these shops in Kamtieng will be closed, so "essential" does not mean keeping my pets alive and healthy. Are the vets closed, too? 

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15 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Still, 4 people have died out of a total population of 69 million. 

 

Outrageous and awesome overkill in closings. 

Check out the Sweden model (and then compare with neighbor Denmark, who has gone full Monte with closures, yet have three times the deaths). 

 

So, I need to go to the aquarium supply shop for something for my tropical fish. I assume that these shops in Kamtieng will be closed, so "essential" does not mean keeping my pets alive and healthy. Are the vets closed, too? 

Just be happy you will not be forced into eating your fish.????????

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30 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Still, 4 people have died out of a total population of 69 million. 

 

Outrageous and awesome overkill in closings. 

Check out the Sweden model (and then compare with neighbor Denmark, who has gone full Monte with closures, yet have three times the deaths). 

 

So, I need to go to the aquarium supply shop for something for my tropical fish. I assume that these shops in Kamtieng will be closed, so "essential" does not mean keeping my pets alive and healthy. Are the vets closed, too? 

Be interesting to see in three weeks how they compare

 

It is more complex than just raw numbers

Sweden has population almost double Denmark, and per head of population less infection, be interesting to see population movement since December, where they went to and came back from comorbidities, and introduction of strategies to contain

Full research would be required to actually compare models also socioeconomic comparisons 

 

Edited by RJRS1301
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35 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

So, I need to go to the aquarium supply shop for something for my tropical fish. I assume that these shops in Kamtieng will be closed, so "essential" does not mean keeping my pets alive and healthy. Are the vets closed, too? 

 

Sadly, no. Pets are not 'essential' to our survival. We love them. We treat them like family (although some cultures consider them food supply,) and like having them around, but if they were essential, everyone would have them. They would be supplied to the poor in countries that actually take care of their low-income people. They are not.

It's important to you and to me to keep our pets alive and healthy, but if your fish die or my cat, you and I will be sad, but we will still be able to survive. And THAT is the meaning of 'essential' for this situation.

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1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

Still, 4 people have died out of a total population of 69 million. 

 

Outrageous and awesome overkill in closings. 

Check out the Sweden model (and then compare with neighbor Denmark, who has gone full Monte with closures, yet have three times the deaths). 

 

 

Exactly right. The way to defeat the pandemic is to test, identify and isolate. This is was what South Korea did, this is what Germany did.

 

Germany had some of the most relaxed social distancing in place of all nations, but the lowest mortality. They were testing, identifying and isolating.

 

Spain implemented hard social isolation to no effect, so did Italy, only when they did mass testing did they start to control the pandemic.

 

Same with China, their supposed hard quarantines were a joke people laugh about, 50 percent of people had left Wuhan before it was quarantined. When the Chinese accomplished mass testing, identifying and isolating was when they controlled the pandemic. 

 

This social distancing is not just usless it will cause untold economic misery to the world with each day that passes.

Edited by Logosone
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1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

So, I need to go to the aquarium supply shop for something for my tropical fish. I assume that these shops in Kamtieng will be closed, so "essential" does not mean keeping my pets alive and healthy. Are the vets closed, too? 

Went to both my vet and my pet store yesterday (Mar 25). Both were open. Don't know if latest emergency decree changes that -- original instructions on closings included "pet grooming" businesses, but not pet stores. Anyway, supermarkets carry pet supplies too.

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I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist, but google   event 201   

 

Event 201

Quote: "The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated areas where public/private partnerships will be necessary during the response to a severe pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic and societal consequences."

 

It just seems odd or simply a coincidence that several months later....it happened. It is also the elderly and genetically useless who die....

It certainly caused a worldwide focus on the next pandemic. There will now be worldwide warehouses of masks, gloves, test kits and ventilators. 

 

I do not believe it was intentially man made.....just interesting.

 

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30 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Exactly right. The way to defeat the pandemic is to test, identify and isolate

Geez, could you just shut up with your irritating mantra and move on to another of your knowledge nuggets.....? No, wait.... don't move on -- move out. Thank you for your cooperation, I think.

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1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

 

Check out the Sweden model (and then compare with neighbor Denmark, who has gone full Monte with closures, yet have three times the deaths). 

 

So, I need to go to the aquarium supply shop for something for my tropical fish. I assume that these shops in Kamtieng will be closed, so "essential" does not mean keeping my pets alive and healthy. Are the vets closed, too? 

Sweden population 10.2 mil. Infections 2272 Deaths 62

Denmark                 5.7 mil   Infections 1591  Deaths 34

https://corona.help/country/

Edited by RJRS1301
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2 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Sweden population 10.2 mil. Infections 2272 Deaths 62

Denmark                 5.7 mil   Infections 1591  Deaths 34

https://corona.help/country/

Sweden and Denmark will have it easy, because they're both small countries.

 

So they can test, identify and isolate and that is the way to defeat the virus in small countries.

 

They will be fine. Social distancing will not defeat the virus there, testing, identifying and isolating the infected will.

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12 minutes ago, Logosone said:

So they can test, identify and isolate and that is the way to defeat the virus in small countries.

No one has missed your never ceasing matra, and few of us would disagree, 

I ask again wher are the skilled/semiskilled competent persons to do the tests for69 million and where are test kits, and should there be an executive order to compel testing? 

I posted to correct some misinformation regarding models of containment and some misinformation in the post to which I responded

 

Edited by RJRS1301
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1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

No one has missed your never ceasing matra, and few of us would disagree, 

I ask again wher are the skilled/semiskilled competent persons to do the tests for69 million and where are test kits, and should there be an executive order to compel testing? 

I posted to correct some misinformation regarding models of containment and some misinformation in the post to which I responded

 

The wonderful work being done in China and Thailand where fast test kits have been devised means that the number for medical staff needed to process tests is radically reduced.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1880785/rapid-test-kit-ready-for-trials

 

Hopefully they can produce the test kits in sufficient numbers in time. I expect tests will be available akin to pregnancy tests that will be quick and easy.

 

You're right that mandatory testing would be a good idea, but once herd immunity kicks in it will probably be unnecessary.

 

By that time our far sighted governments will have ensured we live in the stone age anway and internet, electricity and hospitals will be a distant memory as we grapple with two sticks to make a fire. Thanks to the prolonged economic suicide which has been forced upon us thanks to the overreaction by late-firing governments, in order to save 2000 81 year olds.

 

 

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Dr Yoram Lass is an Israeli physician, politician and former Director General of the Health Ministry. He also worked as Associate Dean of the Tel Aviv University Medical School

 

…there is a very good example that we all forget: the swine flu in 2009. That was a virus that reached the world from Mexico and until today there is no vaccination against it. But what? At that time there was no Facebook or there maybe was but it was still in its infancy. The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.

Whoever thinks that governments end viruses is wrong.

– Interview in Globes, March 22nd 2020

 

Dr Pietro Vernazza is a Swiss physician specialising Infectious Diseases at the Cantonal Hospital St. Gallen and Professor of Health Policy.

 

In Italy, one in ten people diagnosed die, according to the findings of the Science publication, that is statistically one of every 1,000 people infected. Each individual case is tragic, but often – similar to the flu season – it affects people who are at the end of their lives. If we close the schools, we will prevent the children from quickly becoming immune. We should better integrate the scientific facts into the political decisions.

 

Dr. David Katz is an American physician and founding director of the Yale University Prevention Research Center

 

I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near-total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long-lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.

– “Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?”, New York Times 20th March 2020

 

https://bit.ly/2y2H6TM

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Just now, Logosone said:

Thanks to the prolonged economic suicide which has been forced upon us thanks to the overreaction by late-firing governments, in order to save 2000 81 year olds.

Actually, this is a more germane area of discussion. Trump has gotten a lot of push back for his "don't let the cure be worse than the disease" argument. But, maybe it needs to be thoroughly analyzed. Bill Gates' recent argument about saving the old folks at the expense of the economy got my attention. Maybe some serious, and drastic, decisions need to be made --- like, 5000 old folks' deaths for saving a 1% slip in GDP. Bill Gates, and other moralists, be damned. Thailand is already discussing automatic "Do Not Resusitate" for the folks dying from coronavirus. However, doubt that will fly, in a country where I can't even euthanize my dog. Anyway, a valid (but ghoulish) discussion on economics vs saving lives (near term) is probaby warranted. Not that you could ever get the pro life folks in bed with the pragmatists. Sigh. 

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18 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Actually, this is a more germane area of discussion. Trump has gotten a lot of push back for his "don't let the cure be worse than the disease" argument. But, maybe it needs to be thoroughly analyzed. Bill Gates' recent argument about saving the old folks at the expense of the economy got my attention. Maybe some serious, and drastic, decisions need to be made --- like, 5000 old folks' deaths for saving a 1% slip in GDP. Bill Gates, and other moralists, be damned. Thailand is already discussing automatic "Do Not Resusitate" for the folks dying from coronavirus. However, doubt that will fly, in a country where I can't even euthanize my dog. Anyway, a valid (but ghoulish) discussion on economics vs saving lives (near term) is probaby warranted. Not that you could ever get the pro life folks in bed with the pragmatists. Sigh. 

this is a decision that the broad normotypical mainstream Western people can't accept, because it contradicts Western common societal values lies, such as "a life is worth more than any amount of money".
Heck, even the option to kill one to save many is something all good characters in Hollywood movies always manage to avoid.

Just think about the number of suicides that will happen because of the economic downturn caused by COVID-19.

 

There are also other measures governments could take to save the old and stop the virus altogether - such as a 2 week strong confinement, but it supposes the government has the actual power to enforce them. China has taken them and enforced them.

In Western countries the government is usually WEAK and can't impose such orders on its citizens unless the citizens themselves already understand the necessity, such as in Italy, where catastrophy already struck but some anarchists still don't want to follow orders.

Neither France nor Italy were able to order confinement in time, because then they would have faced open revolt. I suspect the USA would have had the same issue.

Edited by tgw
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1 hour ago, tgw said:

this is a decision that the broad normotypical mainstream Western people can't accept, because it contradicts Western common societal values lies, such as "a life is worth more than any amount of money".

The judeo-christian morals and values 

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41 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

So the glasses shop is closed. 

That means if I break my glasses, I won't have to cry no more (for a month). 

 

Do you really not have a spare pair? That's foolish!

These days one can buy a pair of 'single vision' lenses for 1,200 baht.  Not as great as a 40,000 Baht pair of 'Transition' lenses, but for emergencies, they do just fine.

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The UK Government’s own top health experts have officially downgraded the status of the corona virus blamed for 9,529 infections and 465 deaths.

 

Their shock conclusions were published on the Public Health England website a week ago - to a deafening silence from the mainstream media busy ramping up the apocryphal rhetoric.

 

The unexpected turnaround by his health boffins failed to deter Boris Johnson from pressing ahead with plans for a nationwide lockdown, due to be nodded through by the Commons today.

 

The official government announcement on the downgrade is buried among a mass of routine virus-related information on the health authority website. It states:

 

"COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.

"The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. 

"Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

"The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID."

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19

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4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Actually, this is a more germane area of discussion. Trump has gotten a lot of push back for his "don't let the cure be worse than the disease" argument. But, maybe it needs to be thoroughly analyzed. Bill Gates' recent argument about saving the old folks at the expense of the economy got my attention. Maybe some serious, and drastic, decisions need to be made --- like, 5000 old folks' deaths for saving a 1% slip in GDP. Bill Gates, and other moralists, be damned. Thailand is already discussing automatic "Do Not Resusitate" for the folks dying from coronavirus. However, doubt that will fly, in a country where I can't even euthanize my dog. Anyway, a valid (but ghoulish) discussion on economics vs saving lives (near term) is probaby warranted. Not that you could ever get the pro life folks in bed with the pragmatists. Sigh. 

Of course Bill Gates doesn't need to worry, he's set for life. All he wants is to be seen as world class life saving humanitarian.

 

And credit where credit is due, the man's a genius and a great humanitarian.

 

However, to put the economies of the entire world into economic stand still mode for 6 to 10 weeks like he suggests would cause catastrophic economic damage and poverty.

 

 

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I am foolish, then. 

 

Actually, I do have a pair of bifocal sunglasses in the correct prescription. 

The reason I don't usually buy two pairs of seeing glasses is the insane prices for frames. If you've seen the documentary/feature on the fact that all frames and makes come from one factory, and it's all a total profiteering scam, I hate to pay 4,000 baht for a pair and that's without the lenses. 

 

But that's off the subject. 

 

I can tell you one thing that Thais or anyone else will not be stocking up on and that's N95 comparable masks. 

The fact is Chiang Mai is burning and every day I see my PM2.5 readout over 200 or 300, yet I am totally unable to buy even a single mask that will filter out the worst pollutants.

State of Emergency? 

We (that's every man, woman and child) in the North NEED these now. Where is the government on this? This is not incompetence, it's criminal. 

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20 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I am foolish, then. 

 

Actually, I do have a pair of bifocal sunglasses in the correct prescription. 

The reason I don't usually buy two pairs of seeing glasses is the insane prices for frames. If you've seen the documentary/feature on the fact that all frames and makes come from one factory, and it's all a total profiteering scam, I hate to pay 4,000 baht for a pair and that's without the lenses. 

 

But that's off the subject. 

 

I can tell you one thing that Thais or anyone else will not be stocking up on and that's N95 comparable masks. 

The fact is Chiang Mai is burning and every day I see my PM2.5 readout over 200 or 300, yet I am totally unable to buy even a single mask that will filter out the worst pollutants.

State of Emergency? 

We (that's every man, woman and child) in the North NEED these now. Where is the government on this? This is not incompetence, it's criminal. 

Yes. It is criminal but fortunately for those responsible the covid-19 has produced the same as the, take the eye off the ball effect, that wars or other disasters do. It is like a lifebelt being thrown to them. Those responsible should be taken to task and punished severely. But will they? Hardly likely. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those responsible for the burning are government ministers.

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11 hours ago, Trujillo said:

I hate to pay 4,000 baht for a pair and that's without the lenses.

Khun Trujillo, you can decent (durable, not fashionista name brand rip-off) frames here for so much less; are your frames made of kryptonite ?

 

~o:37;

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18 hours ago, Logosone said:

Hopefully they can produce the test kits in sufficient numbers in time. I expect tests will be available akin to pregnancy tests that will be quick and easy.By that time our far sighted governments will have ensured we live in the stone age anway and internet, electricity and hospitals will be a distant memory as we grapple with two sticks to make a fire. Thanks to the prolonged economic suicide which has been forced upon us thanks to the overreaction by late-firing governments, in order to save 2000 81 year olds.

 

Such optimism is impressive !

 

~o:37;

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