Trump considers reopening U.S. economy despite coronavirus spread

[Tug]

What can anyone say the horse is allready out of the gate the best we can do is limit the damage from this latest wound and change leadership to someone who is more forward thinking cares about the population of this country and upholds the oath of office.

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, GalaxyMan said:

Couldn't disagree more. I'm not the least bit religious, but I do believe that I am my brother's keeper and all that that implies. Putting filthy lucre ahead of a single human life just disgusts me.

 

At some point when the hospitals are over run the choice is going to come up. In two months if forced to remain closed the majority of small businesses will disappear. The numbers I am hearing are 30% unemployment rate will be reported soon. It could be capped to that if they can reopen. 

 

The government will not be able to continue to give people money as that money has to originate from the people in the first place. The government doesn't get checks from the hand of God and hand them out. With nobody working and a large amount of businesses defunct there will be an empty hole.

 

They will print some money and that could work for maybe a month or so but watch what happens after. If we aren't selective eventually nature will do it for us and be indiscriminate. 

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, Tug said:

What can anyone say the horse is allready out of the gate the best we can do is limit the damage from this latest wound and change leadership to someone who is more forward thinking cares about the population of this country and upholds the oath of office.

 

November is a long way away when things are happening right now. So it seems like your solution is to stay on lock down?

Edited March 24, 2020 by Cryingdick

[geriatrickid]

If Trump does not heed the counsel of the health professionals he is condemning tens if not hundreds of thousands to death. The failure of his administration to  provide the leadership will cripple his nation for a generation.

 

The fact that people who are young age 20-45 require hospitalization (25% of all US cases so far) should be a red flag. When they go to hospital it requires many weeks of care. That's millions of dollars of costs. The New York experience is that 50% of hospitalizations are under age  40. Some of whom have significant lung damage.

 

1 hour ago, Puchaiyank said:

Trying to strike a balance between protecting people from the virus while not devastating their lives with unmanageable financial burdens as a result of the general shutdown...a daunting task.

 

Tough job.  He will catch flack from the same hateful people who have maligned his Presidency...regardless of what direction he takes.

Unmanageable financial burden are the medical costs associated with caring for the sick and dying. Those who are ill will not recover without expensive medical care. Elderly people are requiring expensive medical care. Either the US taxpayer pays or the patient bank accounts are drained.

 

Some people may not care about their parents or neighbors, but it will not go down well with religious people who are a  key part of his voting block. 

 

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

I am for it. If a person is vulnerable they can stay home. If everybody stays home for the next 2 months there will be nothing left. Nobody is forcing anybody to go out and nobody is forced to stay in either. 

 

Selfish attitude. You want that position, then you should be the one to tell people in person;

- Their child with cancer is condemned to die because treatment will make the child vulnerable.

- Part of the 10%+ of the population with diabetes is condemned to die because diabetes makes them vulnerable.

- Part of the 30%+ of the population with hypertension is condemned to die because hypertension makes them vulnerable.

 

Maybe you don't have a loving family but most do. People can't concentrate or do their job when they are worried about getting sick or worried about their family. 

 

Social distancing can and will work. Trump has the attention span of a dog. He's a menace.

If he pushes this stupidity the public health officials will resign  en masse. 

let him concentrate on getting basic N95 masks to the hospitals. He had 2 months to work on that. Get his administration to roll out testing. The disease cannot be managed without widespread diagnostic testing.

 

 

 

 

[charmonman]

I honestly despise Donald Trump from long before he was President, but this is a legitimate dilemma the US and the world faces. People will die from corona virus, but they will also die from many other causes if a full scale depression sets in.

[Emdog]

I get that there needs to be some balance between needs of people and needs of businesses to provide work opportunities.

I can't help thinking of that massive tax cut that businesses and the rich got (83% of cut went to them). Put US in big debt with stimulus that wasn't needed. Shot that load before needed.

Trump said in conference that he didn't want any aid spent on stock buy backs, that it is wrong.

If that is his true opinion, does make me wonder what sort of advice he got before the tax cut. If the advisors had any qualifications, they would have known stock buy backs could be done.

Conclusions could be several: advisors pointed out stock buy backs and Trump didn't care; advisors lacked ability to foresee that and were incompetent; lobbyists got to enough members of Congress to silence that criticism.

Now those industries are crying for money, as they spent theirs on stock which has tanked. What's wrong with this picture?

[Thailand]

44 minutes ago, Tug said:

Alex ya forgot a few a sexual predator an accused rapist draft dodger coward corrupt his scam charity and scam university bilking contractors and vendors ripping off investors and on and on and on you got him nailed!

Yes, but apart from those faults he's a ----

[AlexRich]

The warning signs of problems ahead where there when Wuhan declared a lockdown. The US Government listening post for pandemics got shut down by the Trump administration, and the experts got fired. When the issue hit US shores they decided to make the testing kits in the US, instead of accessing the WHO versions. But the kits where faulty, and that lost them weeks. According to insiders Trump was warned that this was an issue but he was tinned eared, and wouldn’t listen. When you are a “stable genius”, why listen to experts? 
 

So it was a screw up from the beginning, and Trump is reaping what he sowed. So what now? I’m not unsympathetic to those that, through no fault of their own, are losing their businesses or being fired. The UK Government are locking down businesses and backstopping salaries and providing loans to ensure that businesses are alive and staff is in place when this virus passes. The problem is that the US has lost momentum on this, so millions are losing their jobs as Congress negotiate their own special interests. Meanwhile the virus spreads and more people die in the near future. 
 

In my view the only way out of this mess is not to let it rip in society as that would be a big problem given that it impacts the obese, high blood pressured and type 2 diabetic the worst. So you need to quarantine people who could die and create a support group around them, taking care of their food and medicinal needs, and offering them compensation, guaranteeing their job so that it doesn’t kill them financially. Keep that up as long as you need to get the equipment, staff and testers in place to control the spread. At that point you can let them free into a population that has an element of herd immunity and proven therapeutics to minimise deaths. If these folks are in quarantine the younger people affected can get hospital care. And while you are doing this you can keep the economy open. It gets Trump what he wants without throwing a million people under the bus. 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

Troll comment and responses removed.

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Yes he is really worried about his hotels... don't you ever get tired of writing this tedious tripe?

Don't you ever get tired of defending a President who refused to use a blind trust? 

[rupert the bear]

the economy peoples ability to live must be considered,their savings and jobs,businesses.we must take suitable precautions,we get very conflicting info due to a lack of testing in regards to the rate of infection and its severity but it appears from s korea whos tested the most people that the death rates about 0.5 % or maybe slightly less.testing must be free easliy available.the govt should privatise the private hopsitals for the next few mnths in regards to testing and treating corona patients,it must also think before acting.i was very concerned over masses of people being allowed to throng at muachit hualampong etc,idiocy.boxing matches yikes,single didgit IQ stuff,it would be a good idea if foreign embassies actually did their job as they seem to be failing spectacularily again,i tried to contact the UK embassy regarding a serious health issue about a friend and theyre are negligent,they send you a reply based on corona virus so they are NOT even reading the mails.this is not acceptable.so it appears govt in whatever form or country is not fit for purpose and we can see the amply dis[layed by them allowing worldwide mainlanders to travel and infect the world and sitting back and watching it unfold,i suggest we make decisions based on intelligence and reasoning and govt heed that advice as whats been seen so far with a few exceptions IE singapore taiwan hk and maybe s korea has been appalling and i do mean europe too,they had 3 mntsh to get ready and.....US doid in fact ban china flights earlier and has thrown the kitchen sink at the economy but with the health system there based on moeny and ripping people off theres low expectations,gleads drug is about the best hope weve seen so fingers crossed on that one

[roaming2019]

14 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

To show that his administration has been fast and effective in its response to the new coronavirus, President Donald Trump claimed that anybody who wants to get tested for the respiratory disease caused by the virus can do so.

"Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is," Trump told reporters March 6 during a visit to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.

Moments later, Trump added that anybody that needs a test gets one.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/11/donald-trump/donald-trumps-wrong-claim-anybody-can-get-tested-c/

I am pretty sure within a matter of few weeks/months anyone who wants a test can get a test. just look at how they come to reduce the testing which takes days to hours in just few week. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Thanks for making that clear. Now do you have any input of what should be done? Do we close the country or open up? 

My input is that Trump follow China’s bold approach to contain the rapid spread of CD19. Take lessons from their apparent success of plummeting cases past weeks. Eat humble pie and talk to Xi and asked for help to assist on medical aids. Lastly don’t take advise from Steven Miller on economics. 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump, who had hoped to build his campaign for the Nov. 3 election on a booming U.S. economy, now is looking at the potential of millions of lost jobs, in addition to hundreds if not thousands of deaths from COVID-19. Many of his Republican allies fear the toll on the economy would make it harder for him to win another four-year term.

So votes over lives, eh. 
 

What’s a few deaths matter, if it means the re-election campaign can claim everything is hunky dory with the economy. 
 

maga

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

My input is that Trump follow China’s bold approach to contain the rapid spread of CD19. Take lessons from their apparent success of plummeting cases past weeks. Eat humble pie and talk to Xi and asked for help to assist on medical aids. Lastly don’t take advise from Steven Miller on economics. 

He can't. America is a democracy, China is a totalitarian regime. If there is any nation more obsessed with personal freedom than the USA, I have yet to hear of it.

While I have no liking for Trump, IMO all leaders are between a rock and a hard place, because their expert advisers are at sixes and sevens about the best course of action which will balance population health with population employment.

Almost overnight, Australia has added 1 million people to its unemployment register. That scenario will repeat in many countries.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

Economy and a potential depression against a few thousand dead people and an election on the horizon, no brainer.

I would love to see that statistical model and the credentials of the underlying assumptions according to which it would be “a few thousand dead people”. 
 

And I don’t want to see the economy when things go exponential. 

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thing is.

Trump and the Federal Government don't really have much control on what State Governors and City Mayors do with regard to their local communities.

 

I think a lot of Europeans don't quite understand, that unlike their countries, power is ceded to the Federal Government, not the other way round.

So if the State decides to lock everything down, there is precious little of Trump huffing, puffing and tweeting that can change that.

 

Gavin Newsom locking down California, or indeed my local Mayor in South Dakota closing non essential business' for what they consider the greater public health issue, takes precedent over anything the Fed's might say  

Yes, but trump will then claim that a prolonged lockdown and the economic consequences of such a lockdown were part of a plot to derail his election campaign. 
 

He needs someone to blame and rant about during his twitter frenzies. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Hank Gunn]

There’s a topic currently running on TV that references an opinion piece from The NY Times written by a specialist in public health and preventive medicine. In it he makes a pretty good argument for what Trump has said. The linked article is worth a read at least. (First time trying to embed a linked TV post, so hope it works.)

 

 

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

He can't. America is a democracy, China is a totalitarian regime. If there is any nation more obsessed with personal freedom than the USA, I have yet to hear of it.

While I have no liking for Trump, IMO all leaders are between a rock and a hard place, because their expert advisers are at sixes and sevens about the best course of action which will balance population health with population employment.

Almost overnight, Australia has added 1 million people to its unemployment register. That scenario will repeat in many countries.

I was being sarcastic and you absolutely right. Besides political system, there is also a cultural aspect. Chinese culture that held by the society at large and good of the group is elevated. American culture is where individual is valued more. 
 

Back to the topic, any decision on economics must consider that this is a global crisis. Disruption from the supply side manufacturing issues to decreased business in the service sector, traveling etc  will limit the potential of any economic benefits weighing against the increases in infections and deaths and dragging the crisis longer. Better to take the tough medicine than mire the nation to a protracted pain. 

[geriatrickid]

Here's another reason why we must continue;

Soldiers drafted in to help Spain tackle the coronavirus pandemic by disinfecting and running residential homes have found a number of elderly people abandoned and dead in their beds, according to the country’s defence minister.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/spain-distributes-650000-testing-kits-as-coronavirus-deaths-rise-steeply

 

As the disease spreads and infects our most vulnerable, nursing home staff will be sickened or will abandon their posts. How can we do this to society's most vulnerable? What of the  facilities which care for the mentally challenged/ill or children?  

 

I know some discount the value of the elderly, but they are the people who volunteer at the soup kitchens, with the poor and social service organizations. Lose them and a society's social net frays. What kind of  society are we when we end up like that?

 

 

 

[phantomfiddler]

Right on ! the cure cannot be worse than the disease. It would appear that many are living in a dream world where nobody dies and everyone lives happily ever after. The deaths associated with this virus are minor compared to deaths from other sources, so why the big scare ? Because the media are rubbing their hind legs together with this one, panic sells ! Just get on with our lives, try to stay fit and healthy, and best of luck to all ????

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Right on ! the cure cannot be worse than the disease. It would appear that many are living in a dream world where nobody dies and everyone lives happily ever after. The deaths associated with this virus are minor compared to deaths from other sources, so why the big scare ? Because the media are rubbing their hind legs together with this one, panic sells ! Just get on with our lives, try to stay fit and healthy, and best of luck to all ????

You of course have in mind the deaths from this disease of people you don’t know not your own death or the deaths of people you love and care about.

 

 

[Tug]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You of course have in mind the deaths from this disease of people you don’t know not your own death or the deaths of people you love and care about.

 

 

Chomper when I see a post like that trying to blame the media I think of China shutting down they dident do that out of panic they did it for a reason or thinking of Italy losing 800 in 1 day with preventive measures Christ that’s the kind of casualties you would expect in a major war with modern armies clashing I just can’t belive how some people just don’t see it and if it’s ignored it will be worse much worse please take care all good luck and good health 

[FarFlungFalang]

3 hours ago, car720 said:

What else do you call a spade, apart from a spade?

13 cards in a deck of cards.

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, misterjames said:

Few thousand? are you sure about that?

 

As sure as Trump was of the efficacy of this Covid 19 cure:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-woman-husband-died-chloroquine-warns-not-to-trust-trump-2020-3

[Eric Loh]

18 minutes ago, Tug said:

Chomper when I see a post like that trying to blame the media I think of China shutting down they dident do that out of panic they did it for a reason or thinking of Italy losing 800 in 1 day with preventive measures Christ that’s the kind of casualties you would expect in a major war with modern armies clashing I just can’t belive how some people just don’t see it and if it’s ignored it will be worse much worse please take care all good luck and good health 

They just taking a cue from the fake news manipulator. Sure you notice that whenever Trump spout diversion and conspiracy, it will be picked up by his supporters and be echoed. 

[tlandtday]

Sadly he is correct.  This cannot be contained not even with lockdowns lasting years.  It is too contagious.  It will have to work its way through the population. 

 

Thailand should follow suit as their lack of inaction over months and their continued welcoming of Chinese tourists is simply unworkable.  Elederly patients or those with existing health conditions or heavy smokers/drinkers should be isolated and monitored until a vaccine or workable drugs are found.  All else will lead to anarchy and a devastated economy where food could be the number one issue.  

 

Even if Thailand had attempted all measures as should have happened it is still debatable if a nation that cannot implement road rules or enforcement as simple as mandatory helmets can operate a full scale quarantine.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, tlandtday said:

Sadly he is correct.  This cannot be contained not even with lockdowns lasting years.  It is too contagious.  It will have to work its way through the population. 

 

Thailand should follow suit as their lack of inaction over months and their continued welcoming of Chinese tourists is simply unworkable.  Elederly patients or those with existing health conditions or heavy smokers/drinkers should be isolated and monitored until a vaccine or workable drugs are found.  All else will lead to anarchy and a devastated economy where food could be the number one issue.  

 

Even if Thailand had attempted all measures as should have happened it is still debatable if a nation that cannot implement road rules or enforcement as simple as mandatory helmets can operate a full scale quarantine.

 

 

China, Taiwan and South Korea beg to differ.

[Chiphigh]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

As sure as Trump was of the efficacy of this Covid 19 cure:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-woman-husband-died-chloroquine-warns-not-to-trust-trump-2020-3

That cure is getting more and more active cured cases by the hour. What on earth are you on about? 

[Opl]

Die healthy or die wealthy, up to you