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U.S. envoy blames China for endangering world with coronavirus

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48 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

True - but there are very few assets in China owned by foreigners - which was my point. They cant take anywhere near as much of 'our' assets, if we take the $billions of assets that they have in our countries (the west).

Western companies would lose that is true - but look at who and what they are - companies that chose to manufacture in China instead of the west - because it was more profitable for them.  Bad luck for them - bring it back home - the game has changed.

Not anytime soon will I visit China - cant even buy a ticket to get out of the country, let alone into China, which for obvious reasons I would not like to do 😉

 

Companies that generate profit for their Western shareholders. China has opened up recently in order that Western financial services companies can operate in their own right, assume there would be other industry verticals. India is also a major location for Western companies outsourcing e.g. software services is an example worth billions of dollars, automobile manufacturing and so on. Unfortunately India is also a major abuser of human rights, yet very little is said. Last, but not least trump companies for years outsourced to China, continued doing so even after he was elected. trump and family are excellent examples for hypocritical behaviour.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Companies that generate profit for their Western shareholders. China has opened up recently in order that Western financial services companies can operate in their own right, assume there would be other industry verticals. India is also a major location for Western companies outsourcing e.g. software services is an example worth billions of dollars, automobile manufacturing and so on. Unfortunately India is also a major abuser of human rights, yet very little is said. Last, but not least trump companies for years outsourced to China, continued doing so even after he was elected. trump and family are excellent examples for hypocritical behaviour.

Why bring politics into it - Trump has been POTUS elect since 2016 and in the White House since 2017 and will be until 2024.

 

China has not opened up as you say - or imply - they have facilitated the continuation of Hong Kong's finanical role in the world, and are using it to their advantage.  IMO the finanical world should have been forced by Govts to move to Singapore, but China had used the time it was given to corrupt/convice enough powerful people to leave things almost as they were.  

 

Dont get me wrong - I dont dislike China - I hate and loath them. They have gotten away with so much since they were allopwed to 'join the world' that it would be impossible to list them all.  Time to put them back in their place. 

Edited by AussieBob18

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3 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

China has not opened up as you say - <SNIP>

Look up WFOE, Plus foreign lenders to establish wholly-owned banks in China, and removing the need for prior approval for conducting businesses in the local currency, known as the renminbi or yuan. are permitted

 

 

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14 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Look up WFOE, Plus foreign lenders to establish wholly-owned banks in China, and removing the need for prior approval for conducting businesses in the local currency, known as the renminbi or yuan. are permitted

 

They are like a foreigner in Thailand setting up a Thai Business using foreign money at start-up.  But I hear what you are saying in that they are like a 'real' company - even though they are under China laws - and I dont think the land any factory is constructed upon is owned by the corporation - only leased?  Either way, the issue is what asset values do foreigners have/own in China versus what China owns in the west (which does include title/ownership).  Is it 2 to 1 or 10 to 1 or 100 to 1.  Dont know the exact numbers myself - but I think more the latter than the former.  Might look that up tomorrow - we are about to watch another quarantine time movie 🙂

 

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1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

Why bring politics into it - Trump has been POTUS elect since 2016 and in the White House since 2017 and will be until 2024.

I would advise you to keep sticking to arguments that depend on predictions. That way, you don't have to worry about the facts contradicting. At least for a prolonged length of time.

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9 hours ago, Logosone said:

Well, this South China Morning Post article proves the SCMP can't be trusted at all.

 

It tries desperately to abuse the study it cites to imply the virus did not start in Wuhan. That is not what the study says at all. I checked. It does not say the virus could have spread for decades.

SCMP may have arrived at their own conclusion from this:
 

Quote

Hence, this scenario presumes a period of unrecognized transmission in humans between the initial zoonotic event and the acquisition of the polybasic cleavage site. Sufficient opportunity could have arisen if there had been many prior zoonotic events that produced short chains of human-to-human transmission over an extended period.


Totally valid conclusion, if you ask me, because nobody knew how long it has been happening. 

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9 hours ago, Logosone said:

Not really, the bat jokes can keep coming, from the study itself:

 

"As many early cases of COVID-19 were linked to the Huanan market in Wuhan1,2, it is possible that an animal source was present at this location. Given the similarity of SARS-CoV-2 to bat SARS-CoV-like coronaviruses2, it is likely that bats serve as reservoir hosts for its progenitor."

 

In reality it was never thought that bats were the actual animals sold in Wuhan, rather that animals sold at Wuhan got it from Bats. That's exactly what this study proves.

 

Furthermore it says,  "Estimates of the timing of the most recent common ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 made with current sequence data point to emergence of the virus in late November 2019 to early December 201923, compatible with the earliest retrospectively confirmed cases24. Hence, this scenario presumes a period of unrecognized transmission in humans between the initial zoonotic event and the acquisition of the polybasic cleavage site."

 

It does not mention "decades" like the SCMP claims, that is of course fantastically unlikely. Yes for a time there could be misdiagnosis, but not decades, as evidence by the speed with which that excellent Chinese female doctor recognised that this was most likely a coronavirus related event. 

 

Excellent study, poor and intentionally misleading journalism.

Bat coronavirus closest to the new virus couldn't really infect humans:
 

Quote

As many early cases of COVID-19 were linked to the Huanan market in Wuhan, it is possible that an animal source was present at this location. Given the similarity of SARS-CoV-2 to bat SARS-CoV-like coronaviruses, it is likely that bats serve as reservoir hosts for its progenitor. Although RaTG13, sampled from a Rhinolophus affinis bat, is ~96% identical overall to SARS-CoV-2, its spike diverges in the RBD, which suggests that it may not bind efficiently to human ACE2.


You are free to come out with different animal to joke about though.

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i have been going to china past 20years  and the usa over 40years on and off 

china is miles ahead of usa in infrastructure and medical care for its people

how much money is usa in dept to china 

why are the medical supply's coming from china /cargo plane after plane coming from china to usa from china /trump didn't tell you that/the WHO offer test kits trump said no he will make there own /they failed now test kits coming from china/as the stumbling goes on people are suffering/why are they so slow?

 

 

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6 hours ago, opalred said:

i have been going to china past 20years  and the usa over 40years on and off 

china is miles ahead of usa in infrastructure and medical care for its people

how much money is usa in dept to china 

why are the medical supply's coming from china /cargo plane after plane coming from china to usa from china /trump didn't tell you that/the WHO offer test kits trump said no he will make there own /they failed now test kits coming from china/as the stumbling goes on people are suffering/why are they so slow?

 

 

China the big exporter of faulty junk.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coroanvirus-holland-recalls-over-half-a-million-masks-imported-from-china-2020-3

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On 3/30/2020 at 6:18 PM, simple1 said:

Look up WFOE, Plus foreign lenders to establish wholly-owned banks in China, and removing the need for prior approval for conducting businesses in the local currency, known as the renminbi or yuan. are permitted

Done a bit of research and what you said has some validity. But it l;ooks like there is still a very long way to go before they are ever truly 'open'.  Quote:  n November 2017, China first announced a plan to allow foreign companies to own financial services businesses in China. That plan called for allowing ownership of 51% of financial firms in three years and the removal of all restrictions in five years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccafannin/2019/07/20/chinas-speedier-timetable-to-lift-foreign-ownership-of-its-financial-sector-puts-onus-on-investors/#1f1cedd11f70

 

I also found that there is ab organisation tracking China's foreign investment overseas - and it is extensive: 

US$2034.22 Billion in Total. That is a huge amount.

https://www.aei.org/china-global-investment-tracker/

Plenty there to take in reparations if they dont cough up 😉

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On 3/30/2020 at 8:05 PM, bristolboy said:

I would advise you to keep sticking to arguments that depend on predictions. That way, you don't have to worry about the facts contradicting. At least for a prolonged length of time.

Until 2024 for sure - glad you agree.

 

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7 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Done a bit of research and what you said has some validity. But it l;ooks like there is still a very long way to go before they are ever truly 'open'.  Quote:  n November 2017, China first announced a plan to allow foreign companies to own financial services businesses in China. That plan called for allowing ownership of 51% of financial firms in three years and the removal of all restrictions in five years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccafannin/2019/07/20/chinas-speedier-timetable-to-lift-foreign-ownership-of-its-financial-sector-puts-onus-on-investors/#1f1cedd11f70

 

I also found that there is ab organisation tracking China's foreign investment overseas - and it is extensive: 

US$2034.22 Billion in Total. That is a huge amount.

https://www.aei.org/china-global-investment-tracker/

Plenty there to take in reparations if they dont cough up 😉

 

More recent info for financial services...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-finance/trade-deal-touts-financial-sector-wins-china-to-scrap-securities-business-cap-faster-idUSKBN1ZE2OI

 

In the scheme of things is 2 trillion that much for a superpower such as China. To put in perspective, Chinese were siphoning corrupt money to offshore Western banks at something like a trillion a year & more.

 

Oz has recently announced a ban on Chinese players buying Oz assets, at least whilst the Covid financial crisis is in play.

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Obviously this guys is a right wing media presenter - but the first 6 minutes is about the Australian 60 minutes report detailing that China lied, and the next 4 minutes details an internal Chinese scientific paper that casts huge doubt on the origin being from a wet market and that is was most likely leaked/escape (human error).  I tend to believe that - their actions are very much of a guilty party trying to cover up their mistake.

 

 

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14 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Obviously this guys is a right wing media presenter - but the first 6 minutes is about the Australian 60 minutes report detailing that China lied, and the next 4 minutes details an internal Chinese scientific paper that casts huge doubt on the origin being from a wet market and that is was most likely leaked/escape (human error).  I tend to believe that - their actions are very much of a guilty party trying to cover up their mistake.

 

 

It's a pity that virologists tend to strongly disagree with you. You know, scientists who specialize in this. Science really isn't about consumer preferences.

No, the coronavirus wasn’t made in a lab. A genetic analysis shows it’s from nature

The coronavirus pandemic circling the globe is caused by a natural virus, not one made in a lab, a new study says.

The virus’s genetic makeup reveals that SARS-CoV-2 isn’t a mishmash of known viruses, as might be expected if it were human-made. And it has unusual features that have only recently been identified in scaly anteaters called pangolins, evidence that the virus came from nature, Kristian Andersen and his colleagues report March 17 in Nature Medicine.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

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