Wearing the right mask for COVID-19

[Isaanbiker]

On 3/27/2020 at 12:10 PM, NCC1701A said:

i brought real N95 masks with me from the USA in 2014.

the style I have are very uncomfortable because the mask is a plastic frame very much like a scuba divers mask. The filters are replaceable. 

 

if you have never worn a scuba mask, the way you know you have a proper seal is when you close your mouth and breathe in through your nose, you get zero air.

 

so as far as good fit is concerned it should be something like that. of course that test will not work for a N95 mask in a frame. If you look at photos of nurses you will see red marks on the bridge of their noses. That is from the mask fitting super tight.   

 

Why don't you use some leftovers from angels of the night?

 

I swear that they are more efficient. 

 

  

[scubascuba3]

Yesterday i discovered some masks which were in my home all along, put some elasticated boxer shorts over your head and they work as good as any of the cotton masks around

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

If the virus was an airborne type, but it isn't...

It's not airborne in the sense that it is free floating waiting for a victim. But it certainly becomes airborne along with the carrier medium of snot and spit if an infected person coughs, hacks and spits at you.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, LarryLEB said:

People continue to misunderstand the difference between a mask and a respirator.  And many continue to use the catchall word "mask" when saying they are ineffective.  Surgical masks are not particularly good re: viral protection for the wearer.  Respirators, on the other hand, are.  People need to make the distinction.

 

THIS is a MASK (often called a "surgical mask"):  

 

 

THIS is a RESPIRATOR:  

Respirators can be N95, N99, or N100.  For ALL respirators, the best are those approved by NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health).  The letters NIOSH will appear on the repirator. 

This is a valved respirator:  

Respirators usually fit tightly under the chin AND have a pliable metal strip around the nose that can be squeezed for a tight fit.

 

 

 

 

That is just one definition and 3M on their website doesn’t make that distinction. My personal masks are setup for P100 and organic solvents. The mask with the organic solvent filters is quite likely to protect from the water born virus  the P100 not so much.  a P100 filter will block 99.9% of particles .3 microns or larger.

 

 the virus is about 125 nm (0.125 microns). The smallest particles are 0.06 microns, and the largest are 0.14 microns. So the P100 doesn’t do anything much for the virus, though since it’s in water droplets that are significantly larger it does help 

 

they are masks as defined by the maker

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[sawadee1947]

It's common sense...... 

FFP 2 at least. 

[DrTuner]

Anything that stops you from touching your face, unless you need to attend to sick persons, then you need N95 or better. In hospital settings or home care the patients will continuosly cough and aerosolized virus will be present constantly. 

 

Here's why you need to block your face: 

 

[Letseng]

On 3/27/2020 at 5:34 AM, Geeyore said:

I have a variety. The paper surgical masks are a little too suffocating for me while walking around. N95 I'm saving for a serious use (e.g. I have to get on an airplane). Taking a cue from Thais, I'm currently using a cloth mask and these are now widely available. 

 

My thinking is that paper surgical masks are good if (a) you can find them or (b) you work in a hospital or similar. N95 seems overkill for a walk to 7-11, but if you have plenty of them, fine. The cloth masks seem suitable for our situation although I recognize the shortcomings.

 

There's no certainty with any of this so the combination of (any) mask, social distancing, wash hands, sanitizers, and DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING IN PUBLIC are my approach.  

 

I just have to add that what I'm seeing and hearing of tourists here (e.g. Phuket beach parties, Sukhumvit pedestrians) and reports from my own country are shocking. No masks of any kind whatsoever. Wow wow wow.

Cloth masks need to be washed hot 60C  daily. Make sure material is cotton.

[sometimewoodworker]

20 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

It's common sense...... 

FFP 2 at least. 

Common sense is uncommon ???? 

 

Quote

HSE’s current stance is that where there is a respiratory risk of infection use of FFP3 devices represents best practice.

From the avian flu guidance.

Evaluating the protection afforded by surgical masks against influenza bioaerosols

Gross protection of surgical masks compared to filtering facepiece respiratorshttps://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr619.pdf

Edited March 28, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, LarryLEB said:

 

 

THIS is a RESPIRATOR:  

Respirators can be N95, N99, or N100.  For ALL respirators, the best are those approved by NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health).  The letters NIOSH will appear on the repirator. 

This is a valved respirator:  

Respirators usually fit tightly under the chin AND have a pliable metal strip around the nose that can be squeezed for a tight fit.

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the above are all high tech dust masks as indicated by a N95 classification.

 

This is a respirator. I carried one for about 7 years 

 

 

Use depends on the filter(s) none of which will be rated for biological protection. For that you need one which covers all mucus membranes ie. also the eyes. 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by VocalNeal

[Kinnock]

As the WHO advice is to cough or sneeze into a tissue or your elbow to reduce the chance of spreading droplets - surely using a cotton mask is better?

 

Even symptomless people can have the odd cough or sneeze due to dust or pollution, and a mask is a sneeze guard that's already in place to catch the unexpected sneeze.

 

If we had compulsory mask use rather than pointless curfews and lockdowns, we may even be able to save the economy.

 

 

[DrTuner]

Just now, Kinnock said:

As the WHO advice is to cough or sneeze into a tissue or your elbow to reduce the chance of spreading droplets - surely using a cotton mask is better?

No, elbow works best, for the simple reason that your arm is solid and air can't pass through like it does with a mask: 

 

[Krataiboy]

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Load up with Vitamin C. Beats any mask.

Why all those "Sad" emoticons in response to my posting?

 

There are many peer reviewed studies validating the anti-viral properties of vitamin C.

 

In Shanghai, this cheap, simple treatment has been used with good effect to create one of the biggest success stories in the fight against the latest corona virus outbreak.

 

Now New York is sufficiently impressed to be running a similar programme. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/hospitals-are-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/ar-BB11GI4Z

 

Why wait for Big Pharma to come up with a vaccine in six months' time which may or may not work, when we can save lives with an existing remedy now?

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

This is a respirator. I carried one for about 7 years 

 

 

Use depends on the filter(s) none of which will be rated for biological protection. For that you need one which covers all mucus membranes ie. also the eyes. 

Not according to 3M’s information in its website.
 

They call it a half mask

 

there is no agreement as to the difference between a mask and a respirator. 
 

a surgical mask is not a respirator 

 

even a fireman’s SCBA has a full face mask. ’

 

[geriatrickid]

On 3/27/2020 at 1:10 AM, NCC1701A said:

There were other variables in those countries that gave the result;

- Populations willing to comply with instructions and to respect the best practices.

- Targeted testing, tracing and identification of the infected with mandatory isolation

- Identification of key sources of contamination and intensive measures to attack them. For example, one of the believed factors of the widespread infection on NYC transit was the contaminated hand grips and  support bars and the failure of commuters to not cough or sneeze openly. Also high numbers of homeless did not help. Singapore, Japan and South Korea all  implemented measures to contain the homeless or other  distressed people.

- Quick and effective implementation of no travel and isolation regulations.

 

In the countries/regions worse hit we see an initial disregard for the social distancing measures, high density population, and  poor public hygiene.  

 

 

 

[NCC1701A]

NEW: CDC guidance on masks expected to change in next 10 days. Americans will be advised to wear masks in everyday life. Current recommendation is for high-risk groups only.

[geriatrickid]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Why all those "Sad" emoticons in response to my posting?

There are many peer reviewed studies validating the anti-viral properties of vitamin C.

In Shanghai, this cheap, simple treatment has been used with good effect to create one of the biggest success stories in the fight against the latest corona virus outbreak.

Now New York is sufficiently impressed to be running a similar programme. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/hospitals-are-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/ar-BB11GI4Z

 

Why wait for Big Pharma to come up with a vaccine in six months' time which may or may not work, when we can save lives with an existing remedy now?

People who are  frightened will  latch onto anything that they imagine/hope provides a quick solution

What are these peer reviewed studies that specifically show these magical anti viral properties?

I'll make it easy: there are no definitive in vivo clinical studies. If there were, we would have been using Vitamin C long ago.

 

What we know is that  the Vitamin is needed for immune cells to fight an infection. The  vitamin C is an integral building block, just like other vitamins are. People with a deficiency will need a supplement. Most people with a balanced diet will not need a supplement. You have taken a known and uncontested  fact and twisted it out of context to apply to something that is unproven.

 

Yes, there is an indication that  Vitamin C may help alleviate the symptoms of the common cold. Yes there was a meta review  some years back that suggested that athletic, physically fit people were most likely to benefit. Overall, there was a suggestion that the duration of a cold could be reduced by about 12- 24 hours. 

Hardly, ground breaking. Yes, New York hospitals are  trying Vitamin C with some patients. there is nothing to lose. There have been no dramatic results since first tried  some weeks ago.

 

Yes, there was an emergency clinical trial of Vitamin C at one hospital in Wuhan, China. No results were published. The goal was to see if the Vitamin reduced lung inflammation. Treatment of lung inflammation is not a cure.  If there had been important results, there would have been an immediate announcement.  

 

As is typical with irrational claims motivated by fear, there is always someone to blame. in this case, "Big Pharma".  Big Pharma  will not be  coming up with the vaccine. It will be the government backed infectious disease specialty  units.  In the meantime, one does not need big pharma to eat a fruits and vegetables. 

 

[Krataiboy]

13 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

People who are  frightened will  latch onto anything that they imagine/hope provides a quick solution

What are these peer reviewed studies that specifically show these magical anti viral properties?

I'll make it easy: there are no definitive in vivo clinical studies. If there were, we would have been using Vitamin C long ago.

 

What we know is that  the Vitamin is needed for immune cells to fight an infection. The  vitamin C is an integral building block, just like other vitamins are. People with a deficiency will need a supplement. Most people with a balanced diet will not need a supplement. You have taken a known and uncontested  fact and twisted it out of context to apply to something that is unproven.

 

Yes, there is an indication that  Vitamin C may help alleviate the symptoms of the common cold. Yes there was a meta review  some years back that suggested that athletic, physically fit people were most likely to benefit. Overall, there was a suggestion that the duration of a cold could be reduced by about 12- 24 hours. 

Hardly, ground breaking. Yes, New York hospitals are  trying Vitamin C with some patients. there is nothing to lose. There have been no dramatic results since first tried  some weeks ago.

 

Yes, there was an emergency clinical trial of Vitamin C at one hospital in Wuhan, China. No results were published. The goal was to see if the Vitamin reduced lung inflammation. Treatment of lung inflammation is not a cure.  If there had been important results, there would have been an immediate announcement.  

 

As is typical with irrational claims motivated by fear, there is always someone to blame. in this case, "Big Pharma".  Big Pharma  will not be  coming up with the vaccine. It will be the government backed infectious disease specialty  units.  In the meantime, one does not need big pharma to eat a fruits and vegetables. 

 

Do the research before sounding off about "irrational claims". Peer-reviewed studies are not "imagination.". Vitamin C has been demonstrated to reduce viral loads in very sick COVID-19 patients. If this were not the case, do you seriouslyu think virologists in New York would be emulating the example of their equivalents in Shanghai?

 

Big Pharma has a chequered history when it comes to protecting the world from viral epidemics. Presumably, you are too young to remember the hundreds of deaths and injuries caused to US citizens who queued up for jabs they were told would proect them against the 1976 swine 'flu outbreak.  

Edited March 28, 2020 by Krataiboy

[eisfeld]

40 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Do the research before sounding off about "irrational claims". Peer-reviewed studies are not "imagination.". Vitamin C has been demonstrated to reduce viral loads in very sick COVID-19 patients. If this were not the case, do you seriouslyu think virologists in New York would be emulating the example of their equivalents in Shanghai?

You started out by claiming Vitamin C beats any mask which clearly is absolutely nonsensical because they don't even attempt to perform the same task. It's like saying eating healthy beats washing hands.

 

Masks try to do two things: 1. Prevent infection from other people 2. Prevent infection of other people by yourself.

Vitamin C can help your immune system fight the viral infection after you got infected.

 

One is prevention, the other reaction.

 

Vitamin C just by itself is not a miracle cure for viruses. It's a small piece in the whole puzzle. There is no crazy world wide conspiracy by "Big Pharma" to extract as much money out of this crisis as possible all the while people who could easily be cured are being left for dead. There are tons of extremely knowledgable people in many different countries, many not even working for the pharma industry like professors and researchers who are trying to find a cure or vaccine. It's not as easy as just taking Vitamin C. And blindly taking anything in higher doses into your body can have adverse effects. The only sensible thing to do right now is trust in the medical community to figure this out, try to stay uninfected (masks help with that) and hope for the best.

Edited March 28, 2020 by eisfeld

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Masks try to do two things: 1. Prevent infection from other people 2. Prevent infection of other people by yourself.

Vitamin C can help your immune system fight the viral infection after you got infected.

Correction.
 

Masks do 1 thing reasonably, reduce the chances of infection of other people by yourself. 
 

The overwhelming majority of masks in use do very little to Prevent infection from other people.

 

I agree that vitamin C (if you are not deficient) does not have any significant effect other than slightly assisting your immune system.

there has been no significant/measurable reduction if the COVID-19 virus effects in any published study. 
 

vitimin D has been shown to have much more (but still moderate) effect on assisting your immune system. As many people are staying at home so reducing sun exposure and as the older people have a large reduction in their ability to produce it. A vitamin D supplement will have a better effect also as it is fat soluble the excess will not get flushed daily.  
 

washing your hands, social distance, using protection if you sneeze or cough will do infinitely more to protect than any vitamin, as not catching the infection is the absolute best possible protection 

[Allset]

21 hours ago, JimLuce said:

Oh no no no, I have designed the best one yet out of aluminum foil lol. 

I saw that ha ha. 

[Smithson]

13 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

NEW: CDC guidance on masks expected to change in next 10 days. Americans will be advised to wear masks in everyday life. Current recommendation is for high-risk groups only.

This wouldn't surprise me at all. Will they recommend DIY due to limited supply and wanting to keep the best ones for medicine? When combined with other strategies masks play an important role in preventing transmission. The masks don't necessarily need to be N95, but they do need to be worn by everybody. Talking to people back home I can't believe how reluctant they are to wear them.

 

I have a garment factory in Bkk, we have been making masks for over a week now. It's important that the masks is comfortable to prevent touching your face while readjusting. The more of the face covered by the masks the better. A mask like the one below when combined with glasses/goggles covers a large part of the face.

 

Vaccuum cleaner bags are the next best thing to N95 masks, as they are often made from the same fabric. The bags can be cut to make replacement filters. The diagram below rates different materials for their filtering effect.

 

 

This site has comprehensive info and research on the effectiveness of masks.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/category/masks/

[eisfeld]

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Correction.
 

Masks do 1 thing reasonably, reduce the chances of infection of other people by yourself. 
 

The overwhelming majority of masks in use do very little to Prevent infection from other people.

I agree on your points. I included respirators in the common language use of the word "mask" and there for varying degrees of protection between different types of masks.

 

The chances for both directions of infection increase with the grade of the mask. Any mask can protect also you from getting infected, even the surgical masks. They are just not good at it. They are ok for catching your musk when sneezing. Even N95 rated masks don't offer full protection, they are just a lot better.

 

So it comes down to when to use which mask:

 

1. If you have no symptoms but are required to interact with a lot of people, potentially even infected ones, wear the best mask you can get (N95 or better).

2. If you have symptoms, wear any mask you can get, the higher grade the better (and stay away from others).

3. If you have no symptoms and are not really interacting with others and have very limited supply of masks then consider if you want to use them at any moment in time as supply is rare. Keep at least one for real emergency situations (and stay away from others).

 

The gist is: wear masks whenever possible when around other people or public spaces. The higher grade the better but consider supply.

[Krataiboy]

15 hours ago, eisfeld said:

You started out by claiming Vitamin C beats any mask which clearly is absolutely nonsensical because they don't even attempt to perform the same task. It's like saying eating healthy beats washing hands.

 

Masks try to do two things: 1. Prevent infection from other people 2. Prevent infection of other people by yourself.

Vitamin C can help your immune system fight the viral infection after you got infected.

 

One is prevention, the other reaction.

 

Vitamin C just by itself is not a miracle cure for viruses. It's a small piece in the whole puzzle. There is no crazy world wide conspiracy by "Big Pharma" to extract as much money out of this crisis as possible all the while people who could easily be cured are being left for dead. There are tons of extremely knowledgable people in many different countries, many not even working for the pharma industry like professors and researchers who are trying to find a cure or vaccine. It's not as easy as just taking Vitamin C. And blindly taking anything in higher doses into your body can have adverse effects. The only sensible thing to do right now is trust in the medical community to figure this out, try to stay uninfected (masks help with that) and hope for the best.

OK. You wear your mask, I'll stick with my Vitamin C. The rest, as they say, is history.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

 

The chances for both directions of infection increase with the grade of the mask. Any mask can protect also you from getting infected, even the surgical masks. They are just not good at it. They are ok for catching your musk when sneezing. Even N95 rated masks don't offer full protection, they are just a lot better.

https://vimeo.com/399733860?fbclid=IwAR11It5djppZ5Y4aof78Xyo9ZucC28sQDASDKbjfD8H7AnBXk8KJWRfghI0

 

This a very good informative conversation with a NewYork doctor

 

My basic takeaway is if you have N95 masks give them to the people who actually need them in the hospitals You DO NOT need them and even most nursing don't need them most of the time. 

Now for something less dark but still relevant 
 

 And

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

OK. You wear your mask, I'll stick with my Vitamin C. The rest, as they say, is history.

I guess you didn't understand my post. Vitamin C can help, so do masks. This is not a This-Or-That situation. It's This-And-That-And-A-Lot-Of-Other-Stuff.

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

On 3/28/2020 at 10:34 AM, Lee4Life said:

Wouldn't it make sense then to just make everybody mask up? Instead of giving the public the false assumption that if you don't have any symptoms you don't need a mask?

Hospitals already ran out / will soon run out of masks, so it's logical that governments don't want every Joe Schmoe using up valuable resources needed by doctors and nurses, who may be in contact with 10 different infected patients a day, while Joe Schmoe is not treating infected patients. If governments make masks sound like the a sure thing for prevention, hospitals will be out of masks even sooner.

[LarryLEB]

On 3/28/2020 at 4:26 PM, VocalNeal said:

 

I believe the above are all high tech dust masks as indicated by a N95 classification.

 

This is a respirator. I carried one for about 7 years 

 

 

Use depends on the filter(s) none of which will be rated for biological protection. For that you need one which covers all mucus membranes ie. also the eyes. 

 

The 2 respirators that I posted and described as respirators are described by NIOSH as respirators (their exact terminology is "particulate filtering facepiece respirators").  They are not called, to use your inaccurate terminology, "dust masks."

 

The 2 respirators that you have shown are, indeed, respirators.  The accurate terminology (again as described by NIOSH):  elastomeric half-mask respirators and elastomeric full facepiece respirators.  

[Lee4Life]

16 hours ago, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

Hospitals already ran out / will soon run out of masks, so it's logical that governments don't want every Joe Schmoe using up valuable resources needed by doctors and nurses, who may be in contact with 10 different infected patients a day, while Joe Schmoe is not treating infected patients. If governments make masks sound like the a sure thing for prevention, hospitals will be out of masks even sooner.

Point well taken

[doggie1955]

23 hours ago, Smithson said:

This wouldn't surprise me at all. Will they recommend DIY due to limited supply and wanting to keep the best ones for medicine? When combined with other strategies masks play an important role in preventing transmission. The masks don't necessarily need to be N95, but they do need to be worn by everybody. Talking to people back home I can't believe how reluctant they are to wear them.

 

I have a garment factory in Bkk, we have been making masks for over a week now. It's important that the masks is comfortable to prevent touching your face while readjusting. The more of the face covered by the masks the better. A mask like the one below when combined with glasses/goggles covers a large part of the face.

 

Vaccuum cleaner bags are the next best thing to N95 masks, as they are often made from the same fabric. The bags can be cut to make replacement filters. The diagram below rates different materials for their filtering effect.

 

 

This site has comprehensive info and research on the effectiveness of masks.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/category/masks/

For a one micron surgical mask would be at 65%, not 97%

[spidermike007]

All the cloth or surgical masks do, is prevent you from spreading the virus, if you are contagious. It does not protect you. Only the N90 or N95 masks offer protection from a virus or bacteria. I see huge numbers of Thais wearing masks that do nothing to protect them. 

 

The only real benefit of a cloth mask is in preventing you from touching your mouth or nose.