TerryLH Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 If you needed a ventilator for Covid-19, but none was available, would a CPAP machine sort of work? It gets the air to your lungs. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzrick Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 cpap doesn't pull air out, so not much use with a collapsed lung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smithy Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 NO - This is the type of machine people suffering from ARDS need https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en/Products/Mechanical-ventilators/HAMILTON-C6.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPMMUU Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 noninvasive positive pressure ventilation (including CPAP) is a method that is ALREADY used in those with severe pneumonia but not yet in need of invasive ventilation so - CPAP is useful ( and is already used ) in some severe pneumonia patient ( including COVID pneumonia ) - those needed a ventilator CANNOT use a CPAP as a substitute - a CPAP (for those needed a ventilator but couldn't get one) is better than nothing, of course. but it would not be an adequate treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike787 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 CPAP does not treat pneumonia directly, however it can reduce the work-of-breathing often seen with pneumonia and ARDS ... Near drowning patients may also have significant hypoxia and bronchospasm, both of which can be effectively treated with CPAP. With the positive effects of CPAP on non-cardiac pulmonary edema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smithy Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, mike787 said: CPAP does not treat pneumonia directly, however it can reduce the work-of-breathing often seen with pneumonia and ARDS ... Near drowning patients may also have significant hypoxia and bronchospasm, both of which can be effectively treated with CPAP. With the positive effects of CPAP on non-cardiac pulmonary edema. CPAP can increase the work of breathing as exhalation against +ve pressure requires effort as opposed to exhaling to normal atmospheric pressure which is passive ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Believe me, if you are anywhere remotely near needing assistance to breath you should not be trying to DIY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike787 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr Smithy said: CPAP can increase the work of breathing as exhalation against +ve pressure requires effort as opposed to exhaling to normal atmospheric pressure which is passive ........ The application of CPAP maintains PEEP, can decrease atelectasis, increases the surface area of the alveolus, improves V/Q matching, and hence, improves oxygenation. It can also indirectly aid in ventilation, although CPAP alone is often inadequate for supporting ventilation, which requires additional pressure support during inspiration (IPAP on BiPAP) for non-invasive ventilation. THerefore, it is better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryLH Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 Thanks to all. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/27/822211604/cpap-machines-were-seen-as-ventilator-alternatives-but-could-spread-covid-19 Quote CPAP Machines Were Seen As Ventilator Alternatives, But Could Spread COVID-19 In the U.S., emergency plans developed by states for a shortage of ventilators include using positive airway pressure machines — like those used to treat sleep apnea — to help hospitalized people with less severe breathing issues. While that measure could stretch the supply of ventilators and save lives, it has a major drawback. Officials and scientists have known for years that when used with a face mask, such alternative devices can possibly increase the spread of infectious disease by aerosolizing the virus, whether used in the hospital or at home. Indeed, that very scenario may have contributed to the spread of COVID-19 within a Washington state nursing home that became ground zero in the United States. First responders called to the Life Care Center of Kirkland starting Feb. 24 initially used positive airway pressure machines, often known as CPAPs, to treat residents before it was known the patients were infected with COVID-19....Redmond Fire has now discontinued use of CPAPs for COVID patients. Quote The key issue, Finigan said, is how the device connects to the patient. Ventilators require a breathing tube and operate as closed systems with a filter that traps any pathogens. Face masks generally used on CPAPs or BiPAPs allow air to escape, pumping the virus into the surroundings and potentially infecting other patients, caregivers or anyone nearby. Edited March 29, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike787 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 22 hours ago, Mr Smithy said: CPAP can increase the work of breathing as exhalation against +ve pressure requires effort as opposed to exhaling to normal atmospheric pressure which is passive ........ Breaking news via BBC...Mercedes formula 1 teamed with doctors in italy to develop a CPAP device they can develop 1,000 devices/day. Italy doctors found that over 50% of patients on CPAP avoided a ventilator and sedation. THerefore, CPAP DOES WORK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, mike787 said: Breaking news via BBC...Mercedes formula 1 teamed with doctors in italy to develop a CPAP device they can develop 1,000 devices/day. Italy doctors found that over 50% of patients on CPAP avoided a ventilator and sedation. THerefore, CPAP DOES WORK. They are not using CPAP as it is. They have retrofitted it with significant modifications. It does save considerable time over building from scratch, so it is an advantageous approach. But by no means is it the case that a regular home CPAP device will do the trick and people should not think that it will. One of the big drawbacks is that CPAP only delivers room air. People with viral pneumonia need a higher concentration of oxygen. In addition one needs to be able to adjust and control the pressure flow and the volume. Again, anyone having significant trouble breathing needs to be hospitalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike787 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sheryl said: They are not using CPAP as it is. They have retrofitted it with significant modifications. It does save considerable time over building from scratch, so it is an advantageous approach. But by no means is it the case that a regular home CPAP device will do the trick and people should not think that it will. One of the big drawbacks is that CPAP only delivers room air. People with viral pneumonia need a higher concentration of oxygen. In addition one needs to be able to adjust and control the pressure flow and the volume. Again, anyone having significant trouble breathing needs to be hospitalized. True. It is a modified CPAP used to help when options are unavailable. Not to be the first choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smithy Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Very few people with acute respiratory distress will tolerate CPAP which involves strapping an air tight mask to a persons face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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