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11 minutes ago, SS1 said:

Currently there is no official solution for such, but there are plenty of people on the same boat. Most people just opt for something like the Elite visa, if they can afford it, and stay quiet about their work. 

 

One way to do it 100% legally is if you can find a local company who can employ you, where the organisation agrees for this company to provide the service you are working on to them as a client. 

In general it is currently a grey area and the Labour Department is well-aware of this, as well as the fact that they aren't currently offering any viable options for people like yourself. They tolerate digital nomadism, where one is actually staying in Thailand temporarily and working online for foreign companies while "on holidays". But living here long term whilst working online without a work permit is a grey area, to which the Labour Department cannot give a clear answer to. I asked about this during a seminar with the department, but this question was answered with "we cannot comment at this stage" pretty much. 



 

There is a company that can employ digital nomads and offer work permits but you have to fork over 30% of your income to them.

 

I think the main issue here is not about the legality of it - it's fine and tolerated, it's that some people want to live here while being digital nomads, without the confusion and uncertainty that comes from living on tourist visas.

 

Thailand needs to update it's antiquated immigration laws, which are still based on what they decided in 1979 and apparently never (or hardly) updated since. Why not introduce an all-new immigration act, which takes into account the times we are living in? 1979 was a very different time, most of our home countries had just started opening the flood gates for immigrants and it was rare to find tourists and especially expats here. 41 years is a long time.

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20 minutes ago, SS1 said:

One way to do it 100% legally is if you can find a local company who can employ you, where the organisation agrees for this company to provide the service you are working on to them as a client. 

How often does that happen?

Many years ago I was in a similar situation. I asked the bosses of two Thai companies if I could make a deal with them about a work permit. I knew the owners and they wanted to help me. But after a little research both told me that if would be a lot of headache for them if they employ me. Because, according to them, a Thai company will be scrutinized a lot more if they employ a farang compared to just being a small Thai company with only Thai employees. I would be surprised if that principle changed to the better.

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13 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Once this crisis is over, if they want to be seen as a normal and welcoming business-friendly country, they'll either introduce a 'digital nomad' visa of some sort or retain the status quo.

It seems you think Thai politicians and administration would do some changes because it makes sense.

Who gave you that idea?

Look at the 90 day reports, the visa runs, the go out of the country to get a new business visa routine, and many many more things.

All that could be organized a lot better for everybody involved. And that could have happened many years ago. It didn't! Why not? Because nobody cares. If there is any official in Thailand who thinks about improving things he must hide somewhere, probably in an inactive post.

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1 hour ago, JRG23 said:

I have experience in this. It is tolerated, yes. But the authorities are slowly closing in. They are gradually getting wise to the “working online” community. 

 

Is this 'authorities closing in' based on something or just idle speculation?

 

Seems ridiculous for immigration to care about this. It's money coming into the country.

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55 minutes ago, drbeach said:

There is a company that can employ digital nomads and offer work permits but you have to fork over 30% of your income to them.

 

I think the main issue here is not about the legality of it - it's fine and tolerated, it's that some people want to live here while being digital nomads, without the confusion and uncertainty that comes from living on tourist visas.

 

Thailand needs to update it's antiquated immigration laws, which are still based on what they decided in 1979 and apparently never (or hardly) updated since. Why not introduce an all-new immigration act, which takes into account the times we are living in? 1979 was a very different time, most of our home countries had just started opening the flood gates for immigrants and it was rare to find tourists and especially expats here. 41 years is a long time.

 

Should also note that the term "digital nomad" refers to people who don't stay in one place for long. This kind of temporary stay is very well tolerated, and not an issue for visas if the person is actually a nomad by definition. But a lot of people who call themselves "digital nomads" are in fact expats who have made Thailand their home. So perhaps for these should use a term such as digital expats, remote employees or so. 

A representative of the labour dept. did say that they do tolerate temporary stays whilst working online, but long term stay is problematic and a grey area with no official answer or guidance. 

 

 

46 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How often does that happen?

Many years ago I was in a similar situation. I asked the bosses of two Thai companies if I could make a deal with them about a work permit. I knew the owners and they wanted to help me. But after a little research both told me that if would be a lot of headache for them if they employ me. Because, according to them, a Thai company will be scrutinized a lot more if they employ a farang compared to just being a small Thai company with only Thai employees. I would be surprised if that principle changed to the better.

This is actually very common in the IT-industry, but less known for professions in other fields (the case for OP, I believe). 

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23 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

LOL - Are you really trying to claim that nomads generate $Billions for the Thai economy? 

 

Billions with an S is kind of ridiculous but a conservative estimate could see the number in the upper millions if we change the $ to a ฿.  How much can one make working online, 30,000? That's 360 kilobaht a year. If just 5% of retirees do this, that could be a ฿1.4 billion annual revenue stream.

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I thought the reason Thailand allowed foreigners to work here was because it provides employment for Thais.

Foreigners can open companies, with Thai partners, and get their work permits and extensions for every four Thais employed.

Giving work permits to digital (nomads?) workers isn't providing any direct employment for Thai people.

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4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems many digital nomads don't spend much money

Evidence for this?  They earn far more than Thais.  Every baht spent is VAT taxed, and helps a Thai business.

 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

... and obviously they don't pay income tax here.

Why should Thailand try to make life easier for them?

Because unlike those employed by Thai companies, who are "recycling" money already in the Thai economy, those working remotely bring in Fresh Wealth to the country - like Tourists do.  The difference is, they spend that money consistently over time, and do not create the overhead (airports, buses, etc) which necessitates a support-infrastructure.  Ever see the damage done by tour-buses on roads?  Consider the cost of a new airport runway or terminal.

As well remote-workers would be happy to pay a fee for a permitted-stay, if it existed, based on proving income, and/or pay tax on a minimum amount.  It would be easier to just create a flat fee - maybe 5K Baht/mo - for those employed by offshore companies.  Process repeat-extensions for registered-persons online, and staff-costs at immigration could be reduced -  assuming staff-costs are a consideration, and would be easily covered by the fee, in any case.

There is no lack of ways to handle this which would benefit Thailand in every respect.  The problem seems to be a desire to "curtail the numbers" of long-term foreigners spending foreign-sourced money here, to spite the clear and undeniable financial-benefit to the Thai people of permitting it.

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2 hours ago, Ginkas said:

I thought the reason Thailand allowed foreigners to work here was because it provides employment for Thais.

Yes, and why they allow tourism - because money-spent at businesses allows them to hire staff.

 

2 hours ago, Ginkas said:

Foreigners can open companies, with Thai partners, and get their work permits and extensions for every four Thais employed.

Giving work permits to digital (nomads?) workers isn't providing any direct employment for Thai people.

Whether it is "direct" or "indirect" - through spending + VAT - makes no functional difference.  What is the harm if a fully-Thai-owned company hires Thais, paid for by remote workers with foreign-earned incomes?

I say this as someone driven to 'take a Thai job' here (with work-permit), as a result of my foreign-income being "inadimissible" to immigration for a marriage-based stay, because it wasn't a "state pension."  It was either that, or keep playing Non-O border-run games, which could be ended at any time - and have been due to this virus (not the way I expected that to occur, but ...)

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4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thailand, like many other countries, are interested in people who work and pay taxes and/or in people who spend (a lot of) money.

It seems many digital nomads don't spend much money and obviously they don't pay income tax here.

I've always wondered about this - not being an economist - they may not spend much but isn't every baht they spend money that's new to the country (rather than recycled thai money) and therefore much more valuable?

 

edit: seems someone above agrees with this view

Edited by taotoo
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7 hours ago, dgarland said:

 

Is this 'authorities closing in' based on something or just idle speculation?

 

Seems ridiculous for immigration to care about this. It's money coming into the country.

I guess you haven't been around long.

Thailand has been closing in for decades!! Every few years new changes, new rules and each change has not been in favor of expats.

 

I've always had a B visa but even with that over the years (decades) it has gone from needing a simple letter from a potential employer to a very long list of requirements. 

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1 hour ago, ericthai said:

I've always had a B visa but even with that over the years (decades) it has gone from needing a simple letter from a potential employer to a very long list of requirement

Most if not all changes made by immigration were in response to gross abuse of the visa system . For example I can recall a time when Time Share touts all had ED visas

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5 hours ago, Mr Smithy said:

Most if not all changes made by immigration were in response to gross abuse of the visa system . For example I can recall a time when Time Share touts all had ED visas

This "abuse" existed due to a "system" put in place by immigration personnel - an agent-system which is STILL in place for many visa-types.  When revenues from this system decline, more "strict requirements" are imposed, to maximize returns from agents. 

 

"Retirement-based" non-Os are at the top of the list of continued "abuse," but it is ongoing with ED visas, as well.  For ED, the only change is increased cost.  What they really don't like, is foreigners having/supporting Thai families, so "crack down" on this least-abused visa-type the hardest of all.

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13 hours ago, taotoo said:

I've always wondered about this - not being an economist - they may not spend much but isn't every baht they spend money that's new to the country (rather than recycled thai money) and therefore much more valuable?

 

edit: seems someone above agrees with this view

With "real" digital nomads that sounds right.

But I guess there are also lots of people here who stay(ed) with a tourist visa but worked (also) for Thai companies without paying taxes.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I guess a good part of being a digital nomad is to not pay income taxes anywhere. And that is obviously something tax authorities don't like anywhere in this word.

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9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

With "real" digital nomads that sounds right.

But I guess there are also lots of people here who stay(ed) with a tourist visa but worked (also) for Thai companies without paying taxes.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I guess a good part of being a digital nomad is to not pay income taxes anywhere. And that is obviously something tax authorities don't like anywhere in this word.

I do online work and I am paid in the USA and it is taxable income in the USA.  They do not know or care where I work but I have to be paid by direct deposit to a US bank.  The company is headquartered in Beijing. I don't know about others, good question.  But it seems that you gotta be paid electronically and to a bank which is in some country and where you could be taxed?

 

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1 minute ago, cdemundo said:

I do online work and I am paid in the USA and it is taxable income in the USA.  They do not know or care where I work but I have to be paid by direct deposit to a US bank.  The company is headquartered in Beijing. I don't know about others, good question.  But it seems that you gotta be paid electronically and to a bank which is in some country and where you could be taxed?

 

As far as I know the USA tax authorities want to know your income anywhere in this word.

And as far as I know the USA is (one of?) the only country that does that - with severe penalties for people who don't comply.

There are still enough offshore heavens where people and companies pay (almost) no taxes.

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19 hours ago, JRG23 said:

I have experience in this. It is tolerated, yes.
But the authorities are slowly closing in.
They are gradually getting wise to the “working online” community. 

How are the authorities closing in on this? Profiling your VPN traffic?

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