tag420uk Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 hello just to advise people when using there cash cards over in thailand to make sure they always use the hand/wallet when keying in your pin number. me and my friend both had our cards cloned whilst we were out there and the only way they could of done it was when we withdrew money from atm's. from what we worked out the only time we used atms at the same time was when we were in ko samui.dont know if the cash machine had a small camera hidden or if they were watching us at the time from say over the road. my m8 got done for 600 ukp and i was done for 840 ukp the only strange thing was that these frauds happened about 6 weeks apart and his card was being used in kuala lumpar and mine in thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurizio04 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) hello just to advise people when using there cash cards over in thailand to make sure they always use the hand/wallet when keying in your pin number. Did you use a bank ATM, meaning one outside a real bank? Cloning ATM card is much difficult than Credit Card....... In Europe we had lot's of theft made putting a fake reader in front of the real one, for this reason now all ATM have metallic and very strong card aperture...... -m Edited April 10, 2007 by maurizio04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 US TOO 2.500 aus dollars but we did get it back some 6 weeks later because they used the card in the uk and our passports proved we were still in thailand at the time, makes me wonder if we would have been able to prove we wernt trying to rip off visa if they had used the card in thailand mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosquitoman Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I had a similar experience, my account got taken for 1,500 dollars (ATM withdrawls), the culprits used a new card that I had yet to collect from my bank (my bank has instructions not to post cards) The money was refunded to my account within 48 hours. I think this type of crime is very common. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooo Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I had a similar experience, my account got taken for 1,500 dollars (ATM withdrawls), the culprits used a new card that I had yet to collect from my bank (my bank has instructions not to post cards) The money was refunded to my account within 48 hours.I think this type of crime is very common. MM So MM you mean the banks could have security breaches?How could that happen? Steal the card's details ,then establish their own password or PIN ?This is getting scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosquitoman Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 So MM you mean the banks could have security breaches?How could that happen? Steal the card's details ,then establish their own password or PIN ?This is getting scary. Correct, Stealing the card would be easy, Im sure that alot of banks have a draw or box full of cards waiting for customers to collect, that a light fingered member of staff could pilfer. How they managed to get the PIN number is another matter MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 But in the case of the OP, the ATM cards were not stolen. Someone must have made a copy of their cards AND somehow found out their pins, from two separate individuals. How can this happen, and how can we guard against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tag420uk Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 the atm machines we used while we were in samui were the ones that were outside a bank.funny thing was i would of used any machine but my m8 was adament he only wanted to use the purple machines which i think were bank of thiland or somthing like that the best way when using an atm is to cover the keypad with your bag/wallet or hand.so even if the atm did have a false fronf or card reader installed then your information would be pretty worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafaso Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I dropped off my motorbike one time to get fixed. I could not find my ATM card and when I went back a couple of days later to get my bike I realized I had left it in the bike carrying place under the seat. So when I went to use the card it kept telling me to contact the bank so I did. They said that I had used too many "attempts" at one point with the wrong PIN number and had to get a new one. So what happened is the bike repair shop took it to the ATM and tried to guess the PIN number, it didn't work so they brought it back and put it back in my bike. All with a smile of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai-Spy Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 the atm machines we used while we were in samui were the ones that were outside a bank.funny thing was i would of used any machine but my m8 was adament he only wanted to use the purple machines which i think were bank of thiland or somthing like thatthe best way when using an atm is to cover the keypad with your bag/wallet or hand.so even if the atm did have a false fronf or card reader installed then your information would be pretty worthless. Purple is probably Siam Commercial Bank. If the fraud is being done by an insider, i.e. one with access to the guts of the ATM, then all bets are off. The PIN can be recorded internally in a number of ways, none of which involve the external security camera. Covering the keypad when entering the PIN is a good defense against "shoulder surfing", but in turn someone still needs to clone your card or come into possession of the original by whatever means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazeeboy Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 the atm machines we used while we were in samui were the ones that were outside a bank.funny thing was i would of used any machine but my m8 was adament he only wanted to use the purple machines which i think were bank of thiland or somthing like thatthe best way when using an atm is to cover the keypad with your bag/wallet or hand.so even if the atm did have a false fronf or card reader installed then your information would be pretty worthless. Purple is probably Siam Commercial Bank. If the fraud is being done by an insider, i.e. one with access to the guts of the ATM, then all bets are off. The PIN can be recorded internally in a number of ways, none of which involve the external security camera. Covering the keypad when entering the PIN is a good defense against "shoulder surfing", but in turn someone still needs to clone your card or come into possession of the original by whatever means. most card info is obtained by hotels who all want a copy if paying by card they then sell the info to the cloners job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethevigoman Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 hello just to advise people when using there cash cards over in thailand to make sure they always use the hand/wallet when keying in your pin number.me and my friend both had our cards cloned whilst we were out there and the only way they could of done it was when we withdrew money from atm's. from what we worked out the only time we used atms at the same time was when we were in ko samui.dont know if the cash machine had a small camera hidden or if they were watching us at the time from say over the road. my m8 got done for 600 ukp and i was done for 840 ukp the only strange thing was that these frauds happened about 6 weeks apart and his card was being used in kuala lumpar and mine in thailand. I went to draw out some money from an atm in bkk and was refused due to insufficent funds,. but , i knew i had money in there, i rang the bank ( in england ) and was told that i had just drawn the entire contents out on a swipe tranaction in korea !,now bearing in mind im calling them from thailand that was impossible,. as much as they beleived me i had to give them a letter ( original ) and they would refund the money,.as this was off a debit card ,not a credit card it was a different ball game, had it been a credit card they would have canceled the fraudulant transaction on a verbal and i would have had funds,. as it wasnt i was in a right pickle,. be aware, use credit cards, not a debit card,. there is a difference, one is your own money ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethevigoman Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 So MM you mean the banks could have security breaches?How could that happen? Steal the card's details ,then establish their own password or PIN ?This is getting scary. Correct, Stealing the card would be easy, Im sure that alot of banks have a draw or box full of cards waiting for customers to collect, that a light fingered member of staff could pilfer. How they managed to get the PIN number is another matter MM Why dont all card companies put the cardholders picture on the card . simple ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurizio04 Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 So MM you mean the banks could have security breaches?How could that happen? Steal the card's details ,then establish their own password or PIN ?This is getting scary. Correct, Stealing the card would be easy, Im sure that alot of banks have a draw or box full of cards waiting for customers to collect, that a light fingered member of staff could pilfer. How they managed to get the PIN number is another matter MM Why dont all card companies put the cardholders picture on the card . simple ! Do the ATM machine look you in the eyes? Anyway i'm still wondering about ATM card fraud. I try to avoid Visa for small payment because for credit card there is no pin, nothing, you just need the number. Not even the need to duplicate the card, any waiter can write down your number and use it on the net...... ATM card are supposedly very secure, not even the bank know your PIN, that is generated random and sent by mail. -m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunMarco Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 (edited) As I wrote in another post last year, some card circuits offer a handy function: You can submit your mobile number, and for each transition you receive a SMS with Date and Import nearly in real time, it even works with mobile numbers abroad. I was not aware of this function till I stumbled upon it on my Card provider web site. Ask your bank or take a look at the Card circuit web site. It doesn't prevent frauds, but you feel a lot safer and it works Edited April 14, 2007 by KhunMarco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikster Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 So MM you mean the banks could have security breaches?How could that happen? Steal the card's details ,then establish their own password or PIN ?This is getting scary. Correct, Stealing the card would be easy, Im sure that alot of banks have a draw or box full of cards waiting for customers to collect, that a light fingered member of staff could pilfer. How they managed to get the PIN number is another matter MM There was a very large scale fraud like this a few years ago with one of the UK banks. The thieves intercepted both cards and PIN numbers at the post office! Took a LOT of cash that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikster Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 (edited) most card info is obtained by hotels who all want a copy if paying by card they then sell the info to the cloners job done b4 u get angry - they can't get the PIN numbers this way. So that's not what happened. It's crazy that credit cards come with basically zero security. The security system invented by Visa / MC is "close both eyes and hope for the best". The only reason it still works is because they make such huge piles of cash (3% of every transaction - that's trillions of $$$) that they can apparently absorb quite a bit of fraud. The ATM insider story is scary - this could of course happen, and more likely to happen in Thailand or another country with weak or non-existent law enforcement. I have always wondered how they protect the line from the ATM - there's a network there, and a cable, and so there's a chance somebody's listening in if they happen to have the know-how right? Edited April 15, 2007 by nikster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 can you name and shame the atm machines that you had problems with. it is a main consirn of mine as i just lost my wallet a few weeks ago with al my cards. also have thai accounts too. i do know that if someone had good enough quipment then they could look at you tap in your atm number through binolclars. i laso notices that alot of atms are close to phone boxes. brilliant. you can tap in the pin number into the phone box as they tap it into the machine. or video phone . you can prented to be on a mobile whilst filming the person infront of you. you pick someones pocket after they hav with drawn money. then the person won;t even start looking for there wallett till they get home from say a gass station then they will spent about 2 hrs looking for it. 2 hrs is plenty of time to make a large amount with drawl. just theroy of coarse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 can you name and shame the atm machines that you had problems with. it is a main consirn of mine as i just lost my wallet a few weeks ago with al my cards. also have thai accounts too. i do know that if someone had good enough quipment then they could look at you tap in your atm number through binolclars. i laso notices that alot of atms are close to phone boxes. brilliant. you can tap in the pin number into the phone box as they tap it into the machine. or video phone . you can prented to be on a mobile whilst filming the person infront of you. you pick someones pocket after they hav with drawn money. then the person won;t even start looking for there wallett till they get home from say a gass station then they will spent about 2 hrs looking for it. 2 hrs is plenty of time to make a large amount with drawl. just theroy of coarse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurizio04 Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 There was a very large scale fraud like this a few years ago with one of the UK banks. The thieves intercepted both cards and PIN numbers at the post office! Took a LOT of cash that way. Banks in europe stopped sending credit cards by mail long time ago......for this reason. Now only the PIN is sent by mail. -m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tag420uk Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 well the card i used was a debit card and i dont have a credit card so the atm insider scam was more than likely the scenario that happened to me.while i was in thailand i allways had my wallet on me at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottbiker1976 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 (edited) A month ago i got a phone call from my mastercard Europe to tell me someone try to pay 13,000 AUD in Sydney with my creditcard that morning. I say that is impossible i was in Thailand that time, yes the guy in Europe said, that's true we know, that's why we call you to tell you the card is blocked now, don't worry about it. They blocked it because they know normally the owner is not gonna try to pay over his limit in a store if he know it is not gonna be accepted. They try to take 1 time the most amount they can with it because the scammers know if it works mastercard is gonna block it anyway. The reason they tried so much with my card is because it is a goldcard, so they thought the limit must be so high 13,000 aud is ok, but they were wrong, they just asked a little bit too much of it. In the meantime mastercard already found out where it happened, the fysical copy of my creditcard happened in a 5 star hotel in Thailand 2 weeks before they used it in Australia, because there is the only time i used it that month and it was a brand new one, so... They just took my card to the back to make a guarentee deposit for the room fridge, copied it in a second and bring it back to the reception, peace of cake. But i learned my lesson, from now on they can only use it in front of me, but not out of sight anymore, then i just ignore to give it to them. Better pay a cash deposit then.......... Scottbiker. Edited April 16, 2007 by Scottbiker1976 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tag420uk Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 hey there i hoped you made a complaint with the hotel not thats gonna do much but maybe even a letter to the people you booked your hotel with. like you say better to pay a cash deposit,but if you reserved your room with a visa card they will want to see it when you arrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 When withdrawing from an ATM always check and feel the card slot because in my local town in UK fake plastic fronts for ATM's have been found stuck onto machine.These are very real looking and some even have warning stickers stuck on them.When you insert the card it copys the card info,including PIN no.They then collect machine later,apparently east european gangs responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckydog Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Saw a guy standing near me at an ATM once with some sort of electronic unit in his hand. It wasn't a Mobile phone of a Walkie Talkie so I thought it might be something that could read ones PIN Number. Anyway I walked off! He didn't look very pleased....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuiJens Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 (edited) Don't EVER let anyone take you Credit Card out of your sight, since to copy one takes a second, always make sure it's within your sight at all times. Better safe than sorry. Edited April 18, 2007 by SamuiJens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeall Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 4/14/2007 at 10:33 PM, mikethevigoman said: Why dont all card companies put the cardholders picture on the card . simple ! Yes, agree, but then you have the privacy groups protest saying its the beginning of the end.. towards having all of us with an implant / tag to keep track/monitor/control us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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