Time to sue China?

[Mavideol]

8 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

you know how the world works these days... China will claim fake news and sue the pants off your favorite newspaper... 

maybe not sue but they will use the black mail type and say they will not send/ship/deliver any goods to that country

[UbonThani]

4 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Whilst I'm not a fan of Donald Trump rest assured when this is all over he will effectively by whatever means wipe China off the face of the map....

How? China is super powerful. Need the whole world to team up.

[jadee]

5 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

How? China is super powerful. Need the whole world to team up.

When this is over, I think Trump's anti-China sentiments might find broad support. I've been thinking about what he could do; one step would be to petition for China's removal from the World Trade Organization. Another would be import taxes on goods from China. Trump has been railing against China through his campaign and presidency but this might be an opportunity to do something. In normal times, asking US companies to repatriate would cause massive disruption, but given that things are already disrupted, now might be a good time. A adviser to President Obama once said something like 'every crisis is an opportunity to do something you previously thought you couldn't do'.

[Logosone]

3 minutes ago, jadee said:

When this is over, I think Trump's anti-China sentiments might find broad support. I've been thinking about what he could do; one step would be to petition for China's removal from the World Trade Organization. Another would be import taxes on goods from China. Trump has been railing against China through his campaign and presidency but this might be an opportunity to do something. In normal times, asking US companies to repatriate would cause massive disruption, but given that things are already disrupted, now might be a good time. A adviser to President Obama once said something like 'every crisis is an opportunity to do something you previously thought you couldn't do'.

The US and the WTO have been on a war path for some time, mainly because the US wants to control the trade dispute resolution process. The likelihood of the WTO agreeing to a petition to remove China is zero.

 

The US has already slapped import taxes on China which are far beyond what is reasonable, but of course the hurt goes both ways, US farmers want to export to China, and Trump wants the billions from the Chinese who buy US products. A total break is therefore unlikely as it is greatly to the US' disadvantage.

 

As we have seen Trump has only anecdotal power to get companies to move manufacturing to the US.

 

There is no doubt Trump dislikes China, but Trump is not a fool.

[monkfish]

According to Chinese propaganda it was the USA who started it and the Chinese propaganda is even being spread around the Thai media.
And guess what the Ministry Of Fake News does nothing to stop it! I under why?

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2020/04/02/chinese-virus-conspiracy-theories-picked-up-by-thai-media/ 

Edited April 5, 2020 by monkfish

[marqus12]

40 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

How? China is super powerful. Need the whole world to team up.

Immediately after quarantine removal, production will start moving to countries where quarantine prohibitions are currently the most absurd and will cause a large increase in unemployment....such a conspiracy theory...

 

Of course, it will not be easy and it may fail because the Chinese

will not give away their success easily.

Edited April 5, 2020 by marqus12

[tifino]

2 minutes ago, monkfish said:

According to Chinese propaganda it was the USA who started it and the Chinese propaganda even spreads in Thailand.

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2020/04/02/chinese-virus-conspiracy-theories-picked-up-by-thai-media/ 

Thailand takes over the Tabloid, where the WHO left off...

 

the Blame Game is more interesting, as it deflects all away from their own downfallings...

[Logosone]

Blaming China is of course fantastically non-sensical since the virus could have arisen anywhere in the world.

 

China actually helped the world prepare by publishing the Genome. It was only done because a high calibre female doctor in China recognised that this was most likely a coronavirus and not something else. Quite an feat in and of itself.

 

Without the early and helpful detection work by the Chinese the world would be in a much worse state today.

 

China should sue the rest of the world for not taking quicker and better precautions, thereby affecting its export numbers.

[tifino]

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Blaming China is of course fantastically non-sensical since the virus could have arisen anywhere in the world.

 

China actually helped the world prepare by publishing the Genome. It was only done because a high calibre female doctor in China recognised that this was most likely a coronavirus and not something else. Quite an feat in and of itself.

 

Without the early and helpful detection work by the Chinese the world would be in a much worse state today.

 

China should sue the rest of the world for not taking quicker and better precautions, thereby affecting its export numbers.

and the female Dr, if she's still alive; sue back for her Freedom...

[monkfish]

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Blaming China is of course fantastically non-sensical since the virus could have arisen anywhere in the world.

 

China actually helped the world prepare by publishing the Genome. It was only done because a high calibre female doctor in China recognised that this was most likely a coronavirus and not something else. Quite an feat in and of itself.

 

Without the early and helpful detection work by the Chinese the world would be in a much worse state today.

 

China should sue the rest of the world for not taking quicker and better precautions, thereby affecting its export numbers.

So China helped the World by covering it up and blaming the USA and arresting those who did actually try to make it public lol?
There has to be a reckoning for that!

[IvorBiggun2]

3 hours ago, colinneil said:

Crazy comment, so in your opinion, the world should punish the Chinese population for the wrong doings of their masters.

There's enough people in China to rise up and remove their party leaders. So basically they should be punished as much as their masters. In punishing the people it just may encourage them to rise up.

[Logosone]

3 minutes ago, monkfish said:

So China helped the World by covering it up and blaming the USA and arresting those who did actually try to make it public lol?
There has to be a reckoning for that!

China helped the world by:

 

1) detecing that it was a coronavirus in the first place

 

2) Analysing the genome and publishing it so that countries around the world could produce test kits

 

All this was done pretty quickly. A lot quicker than the slow western governments responded to the crisis.

 

That was far more negligent.

 

The Chinese were surprised, ambushed by the virus. The Western governments watched and could have taken lessons from what happened in China. Instead they did nothing until it was too late.

 

If anybody should be sued it is Western governments, Merkel, Boris Johnson etc.

 

They're the ones that were negligent.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Sue China? Why don't we sue the sky for lack of rain? 

Last time I looked, the sky did not have politicians in charge. Or perhaps you want to sue the churches that pray for rain, on the grounds of non-performance?

[monkfish]

9 minutes ago, Logosone said:

China helped the world by:

 

1) detecing that it was a coronavirus in the first place

 

2) Analysing the genome and publishing it so that countries around the world could produce test kits

 

All this was done pretty quickly. A lot quicker than the slow western governments responded to the crisis.

 

That was far more negligent.

 

The Chinese were surprised, ambushed by the virus. The Western governments watched and could have taken lessons from what happened in China. Instead they did nothing until it was too late.

 

If anybody should be sued it is Western governments, Merkel, Boris Johnson etc.

 

They're the ones that were negligent.

Believe me negligent leaders will be held accountable by their people and so should Chinese leaders.
But yes sure they should be given some credit for detecting the Virus.
And what they do now will make a difference but spreading lies won't help anyone.

Edited April 5, 2020 by monkfish

[Kinnock]

Yes, definitely.  If people can be sued for criminal negligence, why not a Government? 

 

The local government in Wuhan failed to enforce the 2013 law preventing sale of wildlife in food markets - clear negligence.

 

Then the Provincial government compounded the issue by delaying action through a local cover up.

 

Then the Central Government delayed the implementation of international travel restrictions to prevent global spread.

 

And if they don't pay the compensation/damages, place a levy on all goods from China to fund the compensation.

 

The global economy is already knackered, so any knock on impacts will be limited.

 

Governments need to learn to be more globally responsible before COVID-21 kicks off.

[Throatwobbler]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Yes agree 100%, China must be forced to pay reparations. They must pay every single penny lost to everybody due to their (lets be frank) evil and appalling handling of their virus, plus lump sums to bereaved families that lost loved ones. Even to this day the CCP are trying to blame the US or UK for the outbreak. The false narrative aided and boosted by the usual suspects in the west. By punishing China it will ensure the next time they have a virus leak from a top secret lab or from some bat eater they will be open and honest about it.

All it means that next time there is an outbreak whatever country it originates from will try and sweep it under the carpet and say it is something else. It will have the exact opposite of what you want. 

[RJRS1301]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Yes agree 100%, China must be forced to pay reparations. They must pay every single penny lost to everybody due to their (lets be frank) evil and appalling handling of their virus, plus lump sums to bereaved families that lost loved ones. Even to this day the CCP are trying to blame the US or UK for the outbreak. The false narrative aided and boosted by the usual suspects in the west. By punishing China it will ensure the next time they have a virus leak from a top secret lab or from some bat eater they will be open and honest about it.

How can they be made to pay reparation? 

You cannot sieze assets except perhaps overseas investments held by state entities

The west needs to trade with them, we sell them heaps

They have become the manufacturing arm of most western economies, this needs to reigned back but>>

They are not part of the International Court jurisdiction

They are now selling the required PPE and ventilators, test kits  to the world and making profits, they have created to problem and selling the cure 

 

Sun Tzu was a Chinese general, military strategist, writer and philosopher who lived in the Eastern Zhou (554BC) period of ancient China. Sun Tzu is traditionally credited as the author of The Art of War. His war did not require invasion unless totally necessary

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by RJRS1301

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, monkfish said:

Believe me negligent leaders will be held accountable by their people and so should Chinese leaders.

I wish that were so, but I doubt it very much.

 

The populace at large will be so relieved that things go back to normal and the virus is stopped, and they will be told by their government "see, social distancing worked, we saved you all" and the people will nod and applaud.

 

The fact that Western governments' negligence in not closing off their countries when there was still time caused the whole array of problems will not even be remembered. Excuses will be made.

[Kinnock]

1 minute ago, Throatwobbler said:

All it means that next time there is an outbreak whatever country it originates from will try and sweep it under the carpet and say it is something else. It will have the exact opposite of what you want. 

Not if the basis of the claim for damages/compensation is that they tried to cover it up at first.

 

That was the main culpable act by the local government.

 

Tell the world about it fast and take strong action to contain it, and you won't be sued for COVID-21, even if you are partial to Pangolin Soup.

[Lacessit]

28 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Blaming China is of course fantastically non-sensical since the virus could have arisen anywhere in the world.

 

 

That is a fabrication. The virus arose in China because Chinese have an obsession with conspicuous consumption of exotic foodstuffs, in particular meats from weird species, enabling transmission and mutation of viruses.

I'll wait until a virus originates in a Kansas feedlot or a Northern Territory cattle station, if you don't mind.

[Brewster67]

I think when the USA, UK, Germany and Japan pay reparations to all the countries they have decimated in illegal wars, then they can start to talk about dragging China into a courtroom.... until then............

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

That is a fabrication. The virus arose in China because Chinese have an obsession with conspicuous consumption of exotic foodstuffs, in particular meats from weird species, enabling transmission and mutation of viruses.

I'll wait until a virus originates in a Kansas feedlot or a Northern Territory cattle station, if you don't mind.

As do many other asian countries

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

How can they be made to pay reparation? 

You cannot sieze assets except perhaps overseas investments held by state entities

The west needs to trade with them, we sell them heaps

They have become the manufacturing arm of most western economies, this needs to reigned back but>>

They are not part of the International Court jurisdiction

They are now selling the required PPE and ventilators, test kits  to the world and making profits, they have created to problem and selling the cure 

 

Sun Tzu was a Chinese general, military strategist, writer and philosopher who lived in the Eastern Zhou (554BC) period of ancient China. Sun Tzu is traditionally credited as the author of The Art of War. His war did not require invasion unless totally necessary

 

Taxes can be levied on anything going into or coming out of China, provided enough countries participate.

China imports oil from the Saudis. Iron ore and metallurgical coal from Australia. The goods China produces, wasn't that a trade war started by somebody whose name escapes me?

Sanctions are another route. The Chinese know all about them, because they help the North Koreans breach them on a daily basis. They would not want the same blowtorch applied to them.

[Why Me]

Sure the Chinese Govt. bears a lot of responsibility but try suing them. Just like try suing the US for genocide and killing and maiming millions in VN, Iraq and on and on.

 

Meanwhile, tinpot African dictators (see Omar al-Bashir and a dozen others) and two-bit Serbian generals (see Mladic and Karadzic) get convicted for crimes against humanity.

 

Rich and powerful countries are above the law. It's the way the world is. Deal with it.

 

Heck, guess tourists from which country brought the virus to Italy? Next guess which country the Italians are now so effusively praising for one military plane after another bringing med supplies and personnel.

 

Prediction: in two months the Chinese who are out of their C-19 funk already will be leading the world economic recovery. And countries like Thailand and Italy will be clamoring again for Chinese tourists and the billions they spend.

 

Like I said, if you've money and power you ain't ever guilty of nothing. (I could give you another simple example of this closer to home but I won't).

Edited April 5, 2020 by Why Me

[Brewster67]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Taxes can be levied on anything going into or coming out of China, provided enough countries participate.

China imports oil from the Saudis. Iron ore and metallurgical coal from Australia. The goods China produces, wasn't that a trade war started by somebody whose name escapes me?

Sanctions are another route. The Chinese know all about them, because they help the North Koreans breach them on a daily basis. They would not want the same blowtorch applied to them.

They can get their oil from Russia and Iran... oh wait.... THEY DO!

 

Sanctions?... Global manufacturing will stop immediately, hundreds of millions of jobs worldwide depend on what China exports to the companies they all work for... Tis US car manufacturing as a single example.... of the 2000 components that go into a US made car, how many are made in China?... up to 500. 

 

Do I need to go on?

Edited April 5, 2020 by Brewster67

[Curt1591]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Last time I looked, the sky did not have politicians in charge. Or perhaps you want to sue the churches that pray for rain, on the grounds of non-performance?

My point was simply the futility of the gesture ... 

[ChouDoufu]

13 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

How can they be made to pay reparation? 

You cannot sieze assets except perhaps overseas investments held by state entities

The west needs to trade with them, we sell them heaps

They have become the manufacturing arm of most western economies, this needs to reigned back but>>

They are not part of the International Court jurisdiction

They are now selling the required PPE and ventilators, test kits  to the world and making profits, they have created to problem and selling the cure 

 

Sun Tzu was a Chinese general, military strategist, writer and philosopher who lived in the Eastern Zhou (554BC) period of ancient China. Sun Tzu is traditionally credited as the author of The Art of War. His war did not require invasion unless totally necessary

 

that would be difficult to enforce, or even adjudicate.  under what laws?  in which court?

 

it might be possible for the ICC to claim jurisdiction, as the virus has had effects in signatory countries, but china can simply follow the lead of some western powers

 

refuse to participate in investigations.

deny visas to any member of the court.

apply sanctions to court members.

threaten the judges' family members.

ignore any negative rulings.

 

very little can be done in the united nations with china having veto power.

 

will have to be careful about banning imports/exports.  if the virus destroys production capacity in other countries, they may remain dependent on chinese manufacturing for the foreseeable future.

 

i doubt we're going to cancel all treasuries held by china.  our country lives on debt, what other country would ever buy us bonds again if they can be canceled on a whim?

 

the us could possibly try to lure the taiwanese into announcing independence, but as with many of our other promises to come to some country/group's aid, we'd likely throw them under the bus if china were to feel muscular enough to try to take the island back by force.

[Logosone]

10 minutes ago, Brewster67 said:

They can get their oil from Russia and Iran... oh wait.... THEY DO!

 

Sanctions?... Global manufacturing will stop immediately, hundreds of millions of jobs worldwide depend on what China exports to the companies they all work for... Tis US car manufacturing as a single example.... of the 2000 components that go into a US made car, how many are made in China?... up to 500. 

 

Do I need to go on?

Also the electronics industry.

 

Such sanctions would mean no more nice electronical gadgets, no more personal computers, 90% of global computers are made in China. 70% of smartphones are made in China. Also no more air conditioners, 80% of airconditioners are made in China.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, marqus12 said:

 

This is a conspiracy to rob the Chinese because the West lost to them
,lost to their hardworking and intelligence.

 

"Is fecit, cui prodest"

So the one who will be blackmailing to get trillions of reparations

,cause production to move out of China and print trillions...

 

1 hour ago, marqus12 said:

West lost and are now trying to win using a robbery.

Since when does "hard work" mean "cheaper workers" and "intelligence" mean corporate espionage / intellectual-property theft and copying?

 

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

A total break is therefore unlikely as it is greatly to the US' disadvantage.

The trade-deficit is in China's favor.  There is no "disadvantage" to the West in ending ALL trade with China, except that the economy is dependent (as in "addicted like a junkie"), due to supply chains re-routed through China, by unpatriotic corporations.   Those have to be fixed, and that process may be painful, econonomically, in the short-term (a few years).

 

The only long-term "disadvantage," is to transnational-corporations who prefer the higher profits which come from cheaper labor and near-zero envronmental or health/safety standards in China.

[Brewster67]

3 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

that would be difficult to enforce, or even adjudicate.  under what laws?  in which court?

 

it might be possible for the ICC to claim jurisdiction, as the virus has had effects in signatory countries, but china can simply follow the lead of some western powers

 

refuse to participate in investigations.

deny visas to any member of the court.

apply sanctions to court members.

threaten the judges' family members.

ignore any negative rulings.

 

very little can be done in the united nations with china having veto power.

 

will have to be careful about banning imports/exports.  if the virus destroys production capacity in other countries, they may remain dependent on chinese manufacturing for the foreseeable future.

 

i doubt we're going to cancel all treasuries held by china.  our country lives on debt, what other country would ever buy us bonds again if they can be canceled on a whim?

 

the us could possibly try to lure the taiwanese into announcing independence, but as with many of our other promises to come to some country/group's aid, we'd likely throw them under the bus if china were to feel muscular enough to try to take the island back by force.

If the US tried to provoke a claim of independence of taiwan, one thing you can be sure of, China will invade and occupy it at lightening speed and the US will do jack sh?t and the Chinese know it. meanwhile China will bring down the US economy in a heartbeat by simply enforcing a trade embargo on the US and boot their companies off chinese soil, it accounts for just 1.8% of all Chinese output, so it will do a lot more damage to the US than China, then they have trillions of USD they can dump and also ban all trade in that currency with the rest of the world, the USD will fall into a death spiral.