China is the Winner - That is a Real Reason to Worry

[DrTuner 24561]

32 minutes ago, OJAS said:

IMHO you have every right for your confidence based on what happened in Europe during the height of the Cold War, when a fair few Eastern Europeans displayed considerable courage in fleeing to the West and escaping their commie masters at great personal risk to themselves - and over what were, in the main, closed and sealed borders.

I remember that. Russian ice hockey team, performing artists, etc that were allowed out from CCCP were closely guarded so they wouldn't defect to west. Some managed it anyway.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_and_Eastern_Bloc_defectors

Edited April 9, 2020 by DrTuner
Defector was the word I had trouble remembering

[gearbox 1066]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Far worse when they find out that it was the yanks who got caught out, there is now talk that it was taken from a bio lab in the states into Wuhan, believe it or not. My take is Trump got frustrated with the Chinese stalling on the trade war talks/negotiations, and said once we get to phase one, lets then stick it to them from behind just to make them hurt even more, but what they didn't realise was China, said, ok then, right back and you and your allies, F....the lot of you, look at us now !

 

My old man was a boxer and his saying to me was: When someone hits you, take it and wait for your opportunity to hit him back, twice as hard, but make it a clean hit, that is all it takes, one clean hit, China has landed that one clean hit, albeit China was bruised and battered, it landed a knockout on Trump.

 

Do I like any part of this, not my fight, just passing by, hopefully without getting hit myself. 

 

So far the scientific opinions and investigations show that the virus is not man made...no need to spread hatred towards the Americans or the Chinese.

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-new-coronavirus-was-not-genetically-engineered-study-shows

 

“These two features of the virus — the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone — rule out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2,” explains Andersen.

 

[gearbox 1066]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/about-us

 

 

Here's an acid test: open all borders and see which way people would migrate. I'm fairly sure people wouldn't be flocking into commie countries.

 

The Chinese borders have been opened for ages. Most of the migration was mostly to the West, but in recent years flows increased in the other direction. When money talks....

[BKKBike09 888]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, you love the western world. I like it around here, and believe people staying in this part of the world will benefit more of a closer relationship with China.

 

Let´s leave it with that.

People will benefit, sure, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. Need a new port or railway? Enjoy soft loans from Chinese financial institutions, as long as the construction packages are funnelled to Chinese companies, and imported Chinese labourers get the work [cf Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Sri Lanka etc]. Belt & Road benefits China as much, if not more, than many of the other countries. Nothing wrong with that but Chinese largesse is not altruistic. It is the economic arm of global strategic policy. One of the challenges Western companies face in competing with Chinese companies is that the delineation between private/state is often blurred in China. Furthermore, Chinese companies can be directed by CCP to act in accordance with national policy objectives. They may do this willingly, but the fact is they have little choice. If a private telecoms company, say, is asked to 'help' in some capacity by MPS or another state agency, they are obligated to do so. 

 

In earlier posts you state that "over half of the worlds population has no problem with the places mentioned": let's not forget that the CCP world view is predicated on the superiority of Han Chinese culture - hence the massive efforts to assimilate, if not eradicate, indigenous culture in Tibet and Xinjiang.

 

China is a global superpower and deservedly so. But an absence of checks and balances is a very dangerous situation. Western 'democracy' is deeply flawed in many respects, but I'd rather take that than a monolithic one-party system that actively stifles any dissent.
 

 

[holy cow cm 13675]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

okay, it backs up your thoughts and feelings. 

 

but is that one-hour docudrama legitimate?  where did it come from?  who is "epoch times?"  are they unbiased, are they "fair and balanced?"  or do they have an agenda?  did they cherry-pick data points?  did they take quotes out of context?  are they ignoring evidence that goes against their narrative?  could they be repeating already debunked misinformation?

 

 

You try to debunk it. There is more truth in that than going the other direction. Can you say vaccine?

[rvaviator 1351]

4 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

they block facebook and youtube because they can't control it.  yet.

 

they have an army of minders that spend their days scrubbing social media posts to remove negative comments, accusations of corruption, and the dangerous xi-poohbear memes.

 

wechat and other chinese social media give the state complete access to user identification.  but don't think the us government doesn't monitor your facebook, or that western social media doesn't filter or censor as well.

 

with the availability of vpn's, china cannot completely block western social media or information sources.  what they can do is make it inconvenient and as frustrating as possible.  the object is to steer their citizens to government approved content.  that gets results, as eventually a huge percentage of the population simply get worn down and do what's easiest.

 

one of the most annoying things about being in china is dealing with the internet.  when wuhan was at peak virus, china essentially shut down the internet for about a week.  by that i mean no vpn's were working, so those of us stuck here behind the bamboo curtain were limited to chinese websites.  they also throttled the speed and capacity so western sites that were still accessible would time out and never load.

 

part of it was to control the flow of genuine information, but also to shut down the flood of disinformation flooding the internet.  western and other propaganda machines went into overdrive during peak wuhan and during the hong kong riots.  there is an incredible amount of false information being passed around.

 

 

Interesting comment about the VPN not working .... I did not experience any difference from normal VPN use ... (Beijing).

 

What part of China did you experience that from ?

[artiz 66]

42 minutes ago, gearbox said:

So far the scientific opinions and investigations show that the virus is not man made...no need to spread hatred towards the Americans or the Chinese.

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-new-coronavirus-was-not-genetically-engineered-study-shows

 

“These two features of the virus — the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone — rule out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2,” explains Andersen.

 

This link to Medical News Today seems a far more reliable conduit of information. Open and straightforward medical research dissemination. Not difficult is it?

[ChouDoufu 4947]

24 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Interesting comment about the VPN not working .... I did not experience any difference from normal VPN use ... (Beijing).

 

What part of China did you experience that from ?

hainan province.  vpn's were down for a full week.  this usually happens during particularly sensitive times - major party meetings, hong kong riots, and now pandemics.

[noone223 217]

basically. It wouldn't surprise me if china will get nuked. all it will take is for trump to have sufficient evidence, and voila.

Does anyone think chinese people deserve a nuclear bomb ? hell no.

Does the CCP need to stay put and quiet? yes.

Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet and many more countries out there agree.

This isn't a west vs east thing, it's about putting the bully to sleep.

 

[Mavideol 13487]

2 minutes ago, noone223 said:

basically. It wouldn't surprise me if china will get nuked. all it will take is for trump to have sufficient evidence, and voila.

Does anyone think chinese people deserve a nuclear bomb ? hell no.

Does the CCP need to stay put and quiet? yes.

Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet and many more countries out there agree.

This isn't a west vs east thing, it's about putting the bully to sleep.

 

you forgot to mention a very important one===  Xinjiang uyghur autonomous region

[ChouDoufu 4947]

47 minutes ago, artiz said:

This link to Medical News Today seems a far more reliable conduit of information. Open and straightforward medical research dissemination. Not difficult is it?

there are plenty of medical websites out there with articles on the virus.  it's very easy for someone to find a respectable journal and quote mine something to back up their claims.

 

could be 1) natural mutation, 2) vaccine research accidentally released, 3) bio-weapon accidentally (or on purpose!) released, 4) caused by 5G radiation ............ doesn't matter, there are enough quotes and links for everyone.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[artiz 66]

59 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

there are plenty of medical websites out there with articles on the virus.  it's very easy for someone to find a respectable journal and quote mine something to back up their claims.

 

could be 1) natural mutation, 2) vaccine research accidentally released, 3) bio-weapon accidentally (or on purpose!) released, 4) caused by 5G radiation ............ doesn't matter, there are enough quotes and links for everyone.

Sorry I dont understand your post above. I'll clarify my post. The Scripps Research Institute is a world renowned and not for profit research facility in California which ranks very highly as a trusted source of medical integrity and research ethics.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9#author-information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripps_Research

There are quite a few others around the world so my conclusion would be that I would far rather 'trust' research conducted and published by this kind of organisation rather than a well known right-wing political publication much cherished and supported by Trump and his mates!

Not a difficult choice!

Edited April 9, 2020 by artiz

[ChouDoufu 4947]

1 minute ago, artiz said:

Sorry I dont understand your post above. I'll clarify my post. The Scripps Research Institute is a world renowned and not for profit research facility in California which ranks very highly as a trusted source of medical integrity and research ethics.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9#author-information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripps_Research

There are quite a few others around the world so my conclusion would be that I would far rather 'trust' research conducted and published by this kind of organisation rather than a well known right-wing political publication much cherished and supported by Trump and his mates!

nothing specifically against your source.  my point was that a trip to the googles will find what seems an unlimited pool of articles, many of them from respected and reliable journals, that anyone can use to support their side if they so choose.

 

there's a lot of research going on, with lots of interesting findings, that can be interpreted in different ways.  much too soon to know anything for certain.

[Number 6 2561]

1 Rebuild industries in the West under wartime legislation. 2 Impose 50% tarrif on Chinese goods. 3 Impose 2 trillion USD reparations for loosing covid from Wuhan lab and then covering it up.

 

Kill off all UN bodies and WHO.

[ravip 6213]

10 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Not if they dont buy. Once they lose their pricing advantage other nations increase output and get the sales. Put in a 10 year plan to phase out any power they have.

Why couldn't the 'other nations' do it before the corona visit?

[holy cow cm 13675]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

there are plenty of medical websites out there with articles on the virus.  it's very easy for someone to find a respectable journal and quote mine something to back up their claims.

All of this points to the Chinese Government and several factors for why they would do this with an interest in their pharma private sector..

 

Chinese rhetoric is always false and par for the Chinese government as is normal. I can tell you I don't like some of the USA government and the leadership now and some of their practices over the many years, but I can tell you I totally despise the Chinese government as there is no honestly or sincerity or kindness for anything they do but only to take control and have their conquests suck up to them thus kissing their <deleted> or worry about retribution. Down and dirty and no country ever has a happy ending with them. 

 

I like India because they are more real and at least see the BS of the Chinese government. Hey how about Free Tibet!. How about Taiwan is their own country! How about leave Hong Kong alone! How about the S China Sea is not theirs! How about they should be kicked out of every country and be secluded to only their own! Perfect! 

 

Communist propaganda as we will take control of the world. It's in their doctrine. If you ask me, I would be totally fine if their total government got wiped out and the people had a new fresh start. I stop short of saying nuclear.

[DrTuner 24561]

1 minute ago, holy cow cm said:

I stop short of saying nuclear.

Nuke the <deleted> out of CCP. I guess I'm more evil than you.

[holy cow cm 13675]

11 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Nuke the <deleted> out of CCP. I guess I'm more evil than you.

They got nukes as well. so if you could neutralize that area for where they could not retaliate then why not. They as in the government are the extreme devil and need to be taken out. Put it this way. I got no respect or love or warmth for their government. Take em out or forever hold as we or our offspring will kowtow to them eventually in some way. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by holy cow cm

[Retarded 733]

5 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

 

In earlier posts you state that "over half of the worlds population has no problem with the places mentioned": let's not forget that the CCP world view is predicated on the superiority of Han Chinese culture - hence the massive efforts to assimilate, if not eradicate, indigenous culture in Tibet and Xinjiang.

 

 

 

I truly believe that if McArthur had been ok'd to drop the bomb in China 70 years ago, the entire world would have been much better off now.  

[Inn Between 2610]

6 minutes ago, Retarded said:

I truly believe that if McArthur had been ok'd to drop the bomb in China 70 years ago, the entire world would have been much better off now.  

Congratulations! I guess you've just delivered the biggest possible insult to over 1.4 billion people, and that's just the ones living in China, let alone all the expatriated Chinese.    

[Retarded 733]

7 minutes ago, Inn Between said:

Congratulations! I guess you've just delivered the biggest possible insult to over 1.4 billion people, and that's just the ones living in China, let alone all the expatriated Chinese.    

Truth hurts always. 

No Japanese and Germans feel insult. 

Chinese might have had democratic society as Japan and German. 

Korea would have been an united country as they had been for thousands years. 

Tibet and Xinjiang would have been independent countries with freedom for its own people.   

[yogi100 4205]

2 hours ago, Retarded said:

I truly believe that if McArthur had been ok'd to drop the bomb in China 70 years ago, the entire world would have been much better off now.  

China would then have nuked Japan and other allied nations in Asia.

 

If they did not have nuclear weapons back then their chums in the USSR would have helped them out. It was the time of the Cold War.

 

We in Europe lived under the threat of a nuclear holocaust and we realised how fragile the peace was. It was not worth the risk, that's why McArthur was told to behave himself.

[FritsSikkink 13433]

15 hours ago, losworld said:

So the right things are:

1) deny the virus exists when it is discovered

2) humiliate and threaten the whistleblowers 

3) pretend there is no problem and encourage your citizens to travel the world knowing full well they are spreading it

4) eventually admit there is a problem

5) lock down tens of millions and fudge the death toll numbers

6) tell everyone it is once again under control

7) encourage your citizens to travel and spread the virus

8 rinse and repeat

Are you talking about the USA now?

[FritsSikkink 13433]

17 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Not if they dont buy. Once they lose their pricing advantage other nations increase output and get the sales. Put in a 10 year plan to phase out any power they have.

Like it is happening with the USA - China trade war?

Sorry, people are going bust now because of it in stead of "buying American."

[noone223 217]

39 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Are you talking about the USA now?

no. he was talking about china. read this carefully.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/03/06/commentary/world-commentary/covid-19-crisis-reveals-ccps-true-colors/#.XoGjHdMzbBI