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NO AUTOMATIC EXTENSION for people with covid extension


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Remember TIT. I have not seen anything clear and precise from any government organization, including Immigration in the last 20 years that I have been here.

 

Couple that with the fact every Immigration Office, and officer decides what any announcement means, makes for a real circle je.k!

Edited by KhunKenAP
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3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

The automatic extension of your permission to stay till 30 April (so no need to visit IO) is ONLY for those who entered Thailand and

- on entry were given a permission to stay of 15, 30, 60 or 90 days (depending on their Visa category);

- who's permission to stay expires after 26th March

Still not clear.

Well I entered on 28th Jan and just got given the months visa at the airport. 

Had to extend it normally. on Feb 28th at immigration. 

 

Then Fter March 28th got the immigration letter extension. 

 

I still don't understand. 

 

So I qualify or not

 

 

 

 

Edited by theVenerable
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Just now, theVenerable said:

Well I entered on 28th Jan and just got given the months visa at the airport. 

Had to extend it on Feb 28th at immigration.

I still don't understand.

So I qualify or not?

So you entered Thailand 28 January VisaExempt (without a Visa) and you got a permission to stay stamp in your passport till end of February.

> You meet the first criterium, as a VisaExempt entry is eligible for the amnesty.

The second criterium is that your PRESENT permission to stay expires after March 26.

> So after having extended it on 28 February you present permission to stay should be later than March 26 (check it in your passport).  And if that is indeed the case, the automatic extension till 30 April is applicable for you (since you meet the 2 criteria).

Note: Be aware that if you applied for the emergency extension and IO only provided you with an 'under consideration' stamp that you do need to visit them on the 'report-back' date, and you will then get your permission to stay stamp.

 

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8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

So you entered Thailand 28 January VisaExempt (without a Visa) and you got a permission to stay stamp in your passport till end of February.

> You meet the first criterium, as a VisaExempt entry is eligible for the amnesty.

The second criterium is that your PRESENT permission to stay expires after March 26.

> So after having extended it on 28 February you present permission to stay should be later than March 26 (check it in your passport).  And if that is indeed the case, the automatic extension till 30 April is applicable for you (since you meet the 2 criteria).

Note: Be aware that if you applied for the emergency extension and IO only provided you with an 'under consideration' stamp that you do need to visit them on the 'report-back' date, and you will then get your permission to stay stamp.

 

OK so Visa exempt until about Feb 28th. . Then after the first normal extension at the immigration office the expiry date in my passport stamps reads 28th March.

But I of course have had the embassy letter and extension since then. The first 20 days expire on April 23rd, then I need to get the extra ten days stamp after that.?
So I think when I go to immigration they will tell me the same as they told the author of this thread, and be told I need another letter from the embassy.
So.. I still don't get it.

I can't tell you how disgusted I am with this.
It's as if they make it complicated on purpose.

I still not sure what will happen to me or whats required of me.
You literally could not make this <deleted> up.
Makes me want to avoid thailand like the plague

Edited by theVenerable
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11 minutes ago, theVenerable said:

But I of course have had the embassy letter and extension since then. The first 20 days expire on April 23rd, then I need to get the extra ten days stamp after that.?

As you have an under consideration stamp, you should return for the extension stamp.

Under the Ministerial Order any further permission of stay should be automatically extended as per further expected announcement towards the end of April.

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3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That is a brief description from Immigrations website.

 

Read the full Ministerial Order, specifically section 2 for the categories of Visa affected.

Ministerial Order for Emergency Situation..pdf 148.67 kB · 0 downloads

Yes, but the thing that isn't clear is do they mean ALL visa types including those that have had an extension?

No point people keep posting that picture until we figure out what it means.

Maybe All visa types means just the visa you got when arriving, not any extension you put on it yourself.

Therefore mine runs out on 28thFEB.
Only goes over the 28th MARCH after my first visa extension.

It's hard to even ask the question
<deleted> I hate this

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1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

As you have an under consideration stamp, you should return for the extension stamp.

Under the Ministerial Order any further permission of stay should be automatically extended as per further expected announcement towards the end of April.

Then why was the OP told he needs a new letter from his embassy?

That's what this thread is all about.

And I seem to be in same category as him.

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5 minutes ago, theVenerable said:

Then why was the OP told he needs a new letter from his embassy?

That's what this thread is all about.

And I seem to be in same category as him.

He applied before the Ministerial Order was announced.

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8 minutes ago, theVenerable said:

Yes, but the thing that isn't clear is do they mean ALL visa types including those that have had an extension?

No point people keep posting that picture until we figure out what it means.

I posted the Ministerial Order not a picture from the Immigration website

 

If you have current permission of stay beyond March 26th from either a VE, VOA, TV, or Non O that granted a maximum stay of up to 90 days, then your permission of stay is automatically extended under the Ministerial Order.

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3 hours ago, Siddharta said:

Good morning everybody,

I am just outside from CW and I just wanted to share my experience:

I came to Thailand with Tourist Visa, during the period of the normal extension, the Covid spreaded in the country. Having an italian Passport I had to go to the italian embassy to have the letter to be able to stay after the first extension. At CW I have been given 10 days (Under evaluation till 24th of March. After that they regularly stamped my passport till April 11th. So I have a regular the stamp till 11th of April. Seen that I already had one COVID EXTENSION , I thought it could happen as the guy (Uberfarang) that had to go to embassy again and have another letter to be able to renew for other 30 days. INSTEAD This morning I had CONFIRMATION from two different officers (I Regularly took the ticket and waited in line) that seen I have the stamp 11 of April, am good till April 30th as everybody have. So I think the case of Uberfarang was only due to misinterpretaion of the officer he met.

I just wanted to share with all the people in my same situation.

All the officers were very very kind and speaking good English.

Thanks for reading.

Luke

Thanks for the feedback! So that confirms the hypothesis: once the "under consideration" stamp is converted into a proper "permission of stay" then we fall under the amnesty and automatically extended until April 30 (and subsequent extensions).

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6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I posted the Ministerial Order not a picture from the Immigration website

You posted a translation of the ministerial order by a third party which even has less legal relevance than a picture from the immigration website.

By the way, the translation says: "Aliens permitted for a temporary stay[...]".

Somebody who arrives on a non-oa visa is permitted for a temporary stay, so this extension applies to him.

 

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If you have current permission of stay beyond March 26th from either a VE, VOA, TV, or Non O that granted a maximum stay of up to 90 days, then your permission of stay is automatically extended under the Ministerial Order.

Where does it say "maximum stay of 90 days"?

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1 minute ago, jackdd said:

By the way, the translation says: "Aliens permitted for a temporary stay[...]".

Correct.

 

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Somebody who arrives on a non-oa visa is permitted for a temporary stay, so this extension applies to him.

They are permitted a long stay of 1 year, hence the O-A is described as a long stay Visa for retirement.

 

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Where does it say "maximum stay of 90 days"?

Did you read anything that exceeded Phor 90 days.

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Hey folks, I just returned from KK Immigration for my "consideration" stamp follow up. The IO simply asked for my passport and nothing else. The whole process was rather quick and the immigration office was the emptiest I've probably ever seen it. When the IO returned my passport with the new date (April 28) I asked what I should do if the Covid situation is not cleared by then. She tried to explain in English, but eventually just handed me a paper with the English translation of the visa amnesty decree (ie. visa amnesty for persons whose visas expired from March 26th). She did not mention anything about returning to the office or bringing a new letter from the embassy. 

 

It should also be noted that I saw her highlight my name off a long list. I'm assuming this was the Covid consideration list, hence I suggest that people with the consideration stamp do show up to their local immigration office to get an official extended visa.

 

I really hope my interpretation of her actions is correct, otherwise I'm going to end up forking over quite a bit of over-stay money when I actually do fly out of Thailand. Looking forward to hearing about what others experienced.

Edited by Benitostacos
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16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

They are permitted a long stay of 1 year, hence the O-A is described as a long stay Visa for retirement.

Your understanding is wrong. Every foreigner who enters Thailand and doesn't have permanent residency, is called "temporary visitor".

 

16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Did you read anything that exceeded Phor 90 days.

"PhorPhor90" is the name of the entry permit which people under a 90 day bilateral agreement get, this has nothing to do with any other type of entry.

"Tourist visa" is also not specifically mentioned, so if what you say would be true, then people who entered with a tourist visa would also not get this automatic extension.

Edited by jackdd
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58 minutes ago, theVenerable said:

Yes, but the thing that isn't clear is do they mean ALL visa types including those that have had an extension?

If you got a extension that was less than 90 days you do qualify under the ministerial order since you would have to the leave the country to get new entry since you can only apply for one extension per entry.

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27 minutes ago, Benitostacos said:

Hey folks, I just returned from KK Immigration for my "consideration" stamp follow up. The IO simply asked for my passport and nothing else. The whole process was rather quick and the immigration office was the emptiest I've probably ever seen it. When the IO returned my passport with the new date (April 28) I asked what I should do if the Covid situation is not cleared by then. She tried to explain in English, but eventually just handed me a paper with the English translation of the visa amnesty decree (ie. visa amnesty for persons whose visas expired from March 26th). She did not mention anything about returning to the office or bringing a new letter from the embassy. 

 

It should also be noted that I saw her highlight my name off a long list. I'm assuming this was the Covid consideration list, hence I suggest that people with the consideration stamp do show up to their local immigration office to get an official extended visa.

 

I really hope my interpretation of her actions is correct, otherwise I'm going to end up forking over quite a bit of over-stay money when I actually do fly out of Thailand. Looking forward to hearing about what others experienced.

Thanks pal! We continue confirming our guess. "Under consideration" stamp must return to the IMM office on specified date, and after that they are 'fine'. Sounds ridiculous, but it could be worse...

 

Very interesting that information about a list

Edited by ANDREW999
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2 hours ago, jackdd said:

This is wrong.

In the announcement they merely list all available options:

- All visas

- Visa on arrival

- P30 (this is the "regular" visa exempt which most people here would get)

- PP14 (14 day visa exempt under bilateral agreement)

- PP30 (30 day visa exempt under bilateral agreement)

- PP90 (90 day visa exempt under bilateral agreement)

So for example a non-oa visa is included under "all visas".

 

I didn't see anything which says that these are not eligable. Where did you get your information from?

@jackdd

I was also confused at first having only read the Amnesty Announcement posted on the IO website and trying to wade through the ministerial texts behind it.

It's message as I understood it at first, was that ALL foreigners with a permission to stay expiring after 26 March would be eligible for the amnesty.

However, it appears that IO limited the amnesty only to those foreigners that would normally leave the country by the end of their permission to stay, and are now unable to do so because of border-closures. 

As a result the 'certain group of foreigners' eligible for the amnesty only consists of those that entered Thailand Visa Exempt, Visa on Arrival, on a Tourists Visa (SETV or METV) or a short-stay Non Imm O Visa that provides a 90-day permission to stay. 

The implicit thinking behind the exclusion is that those foreigners on long-stay Non Imm O or O-A Visa or extensions of those, do not need to exit the country at the end of their permission to stay, as they can apply for a 1-year extension based on their present Visa.  And so they are excluded from the amnesty, and are required to apply for their 'normal' 1-year extension of stay at their local IO at the end of their permission to stay.

 

A lengthy discussion on the topic (which convinced me of the above) can be found in the thread

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1158807-question-about-non-o-extension-update/?do=findComment&comment=15282976

From message #12 on @ubonjoe clarified that the posted Announcement cannot be correctly understood without reading the ministerial order and thai IO procedures.

Obviously, it's ridiculous that you need to do this kind of digging to correctly understand what the announcement is meant to convey.  But this is Thailand and IO has built a rock-solid reputation of making unclear, ambiguous and jargon-ridden statements that are multi-interpretable.

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52 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

A lengthy discussion on the topic (which convinced me of the above) can be found in the thread

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1158807-question-about-non-o-extension-update/?do=findComment&comment=15282976

From message #12 on @ubonjoe clarified that the posted Announcement cannot be correctly understood without reading the ministerial order and thai IO procedures.

Ubonjoe is using his personal interpretation of the introduction part of the ministerial order, not even on the actual "order part", as basis for his argumentation.

There is nothing in the ministerial order, or in the interpretation done by immigration police, which would exclude for example non-oa visas or yearly extensions, thus it also applies to them. What Ubonjoe said there is wrong.

Edited by jackdd
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2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Your understanding is wrong. Every foreigner who enters Thailand and doesn't have permanent residency, is called "temporary visitor".

Every foreigner is given temporary permission of stay.

Whether your classed a visitor or resident (not PR) is determined by how long you stay.

Thailand doesn't define it in writing, but commonly if you stay longer than 6 months you are classed as resident.

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

"PhorPhor90" is the name of the entry permit which people under a 90 day bilateral agreement get, this has nothing to do with any other type of entry.

"Tourist visa" is also not specifically mentioned, so if what you say would be true, then people who entered with a tourist visa would also not get this automatic extension.

'PhorPhor' according to a very good Thai friend who translates professionally, in this context, means those given leniency (as in to enter).

Her clear interpretation of clause 2 of the Ministerial order is that it only relates to those given leniency to enter for varying periods between 14 and 90 days as defined by the method of entry.

 

Can you highlight Jack just where Non O-A Visa are included for automatic extensions within the Ministerial Order.

Or for that matter annual extensions based on retirement or marriage.

Edited by Tanoshi
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10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Ubonjoe is using his personal interpretation of the introduction part of the ministerial order, not even on the actual "order part", as basis for his argumentation.

There is nothing in the ministerial order, or in the interpretation done by immigration police, which would exclude for example non-oa visas or yearly extensions, thus it also applies to them. What Ubonjoe said there is wrong.

Now your the expert trying to drag those down with whom you disagree to your level of limited understanding of the subject, then beat us with your vast experience on the subject. :cheesy:

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Every foreigner is given temporary permission of stay.

Whether your classed a visitor or resident (not PR) is determined by how long you stay.

Thailand doesn't define it in writing, but commonly if you stay longer than 6 months you are classed as resident.

Such a classification doesn't exist.

I recommend having a look at for example Immigration Act Sections 35, 37(5) or 38, temporary visitors have to get extensions, do 90 day reports or have to be reported with a TM30. If what you said were true then somebody who enters with a Non-OA visa wouldn't have to do all these things.

 

37 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

'PhorPhor' according to a very good Thai friend who translates professionally, in this context, means those given leniency (as in to enter).

Then obviously your Thai friend isn't as professional as you think he is.

Tell him to look up "ผผ90" on Google, then he will understand that it means 90 day visa exempt under bilateral agreement.

 

37 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Can you highlight Jack just where Non O-A Visa are included for automatic extensions within the Ministerial Order.

temporary.JPG.11bf3b95bedf93b7f71bdbbfa4c2b890.JPG

As you can see, "คนต่างด้าวซึ่งได้รับอนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว" (temporary visitors in english) who were allowed to stay until at least 26th March are... (in the following part it then says exempted from 90 day reports and get an extension until 30th April)

For reference you can now look up for example Immigration act section 38, which uses the same "คนต่างด้าวซึ่งได้รับอนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว" and says they have to be reported by a TM30.

I think we can agree on that people with a Non-OA visa have to be reported by TM30, so obviously they are included in it.

 

Edited by jackdd
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30 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Such a classification doesn't exist.

In Thailand, in writing no, which is what I stated.

Why do you think TI don't allow entry after a number of VE's, TV's.

Once they feel your not a visitor, but in fact living here (resident).

Most other Countries limit the time you can spend there to 6 months. Why?

 

30 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Then obviously your Thai friend isn't as professional as you think he is.

Tell him to look up "ผผ90" on Google, then he will understand that it means 90 day visa exempt under bilateral agreement.

He, is a she and she has degrees in Thai and English language.

 

Your point being what. That only confirms what we've been stating.

Aliens permitted a temporary stay up to 90 days in the classes defined.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tanoshi
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11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

In Thailand, in writing no, which is what I stated.

Why do you think TI don't allow entry after a number of VE's, TV's.

Once they feel your not a visitor, but in fact living here (resident).

Most other Countries limit the time you can spend there to 6 months. Why?

 

He, is a she and she has degrees in Thai and English language.

 

Your point being what. That only confirms what we've been stating.

Aliens permitted a temporary stay up to 90 days in the classes defined.

 

 

 

 

Tanoshi

If you are correct does this mean persons on yearly extensions are still required to do the 90 day reports.

The amnesty for 90 day reports in subsection (2) would only apply to persons that qualify under section 2 ?

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25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Why do you think TI don't allow entry after a number of VE's, TV's.

Only some law breaking IOs at some entry points, not all of Thai immigration.

But talking further about it would derail this topic, if you need more clarification you can open a new topic.

 

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

He, is a she and she has degrees in Thai and English language.

In your other post it sounded like she is a professional in translation Thai immigration law texts. So actually she has never heard of ผผ90 and has no idea what it means? No average person will know what ผผ90 means, this is a specific Thai immigration term (easy to spot, they "translated" it to "phor phor 90", it has no real translation), so i'm not blaming her for that. But if you talk about something which includes a term which you don't understand, you should look it up first.

 

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Can you repost the image from the English translation please.

 

english.JPG.edd27a6313e3c1c83c60c92e92702702.JPG

"Aliens permitted for a temporary stay" is the translation of "คนต่างด้าวซึ่งได้รับอนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว" in the original ministerial order.

As explained in my post above, this (the original Thai) is the exactly same wording which you find in the immigration act in many sections regarding extensions, 90 day reports, TM30 and so on.

 

11 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Tanoshi

If you are correct does this mean persons on yearly extensions are still required to do the 90 day reports.

The amnesty for 90 day reports in subsection (2) would only apply to persons that qualify under section 2 ?

Yes, this would be the case.

Good argument to show that he is wrong.

Edited by jackdd
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2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

If you are correct does this mean persons on yearly extensions are still required to do the 90 day reports.

No.

 

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The amnesty for 90 day reports in subsection (2) would only apply to persons that qualify under section 2 ?

Yes, only those with permission of stay longer than 90 days are required to submit 90 day reports, but under section 2.2 of the Ministerial order are exempt until further announcements.

 

Those to whom the automatic extensions apply would never submit 90 day reports. The maximum permission of stay being granted to those class of Visas being 90 days.

 

 

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In my opinion, the embassies and prime minister were assured that this was to be a blanket amnesty for everyone who was legally in Thailand as of March 26. The appalling wording of the order was deliberately intended to give a superficial impression that all categories of those given temporary leave to be in Thailand were included, while leaving the situation with respect to those on some extensions of stay (most important for senior immigration officials those on retirement extensions and those on Non Ed extensions of stay) ambiguous. The intention is to protect the income of senior immigration officials that comes from agent assisted extensions of those categories of extensions. Whether this is successful will depend on the blow back Immigration receives. If the PM asks whether the order defeated his intentions, Immigration will backtrack and claim everyone is, indeed, included. The wording gives them plausible deniability for their trickery.

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