Wuhan lab testing bats for coronavirus had sloppy safety precautions

[rabas]

Here is the jist of their argument, from their paper downloadable as pdf from 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1

 

Image: SARS on the left, SARS-2 on the right. The bottom axis is the number of virus changes over time. IOW, time as measured by the number of mutations.  SARS took 2 months to slowly adapt to humans (blue dots) with very few cases, then it exploded with all the yellow dots.

 

SARS2 exploded out of the box relative to the food market story. In general, the food market story has been largely discredited. As have Pangolins, but than is another science story.

 

[DrTuner]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

Here is the jist of their argument, from their paper downloadable as pdf from 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1

 

Image: SARS on the left, SARS-2 on the right. The bottom axis is the number of virus changes over time. IOW, time as measured by the number of mutations.  SARS took 2 months to slowly adapt to humans (blue dots) with very few cases, then it exploded with all the yellow dots.

 

SARS2 exploded out of the box relative to the food market story. In general, the food market story has been largely discredited. As have Pangolins, but than is another science story.

 

IIRC correctly, the youtube video of the Wuhanese nurse pleading for help and claiming it had mutated was on 15th January. That would mean a lesser strain was circulating from around November or earlier. Was CCP aware of this? I would find it strange if they weren't.

[silver sea]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

IIRC correctly, the youtube video of the Wuhanese nurse pleading for help and claiming it had mutated was on 15th January. That would mean a lesser strain was circulating from around November or earlier. Was CCP aware of this? I would find it strange if they weren't.

Here is a report by a young British teacher, who was in Wuhan last year. On 25th November 2019, he caught what he thought initiallyy was flu. Later he goes to local hospital, and much later he is advised by the hospital that he has coronavirus, not flu. Well written.

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8075633/First-British-victim-25-describes-coronavirus.html

 

 

 

 

[rabas]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

IIRC correctly, the youtube video of the Wuhanese nurse pleading for help and claiming it had mutated was on 15th January. That would mean a lesser strain was circulating from around November or earlier. Was CCP aware of this? I would find it strange if they weren't.

Considering all that is now known, I don't see how the omnipresent Orwellian CCP would no know almost from the beginning.

 

The 15th January video also agrees with an early Chinese paper discussing two subtypes L and S. A mild type S prevailed before Chinese New Year and escaped before the Wuhan shut down. Then a more aggressive type L swept Wuhan (70%). Only the S type spread throughout China.

 

Paper: https://academic.oup.com/nsr/advance-article/doi/10.1093/nsr/nwaa036/5775463

 

There are now several papers discussing multiple strains/subtypes that look from different angles.

[rabas]

Most detailed study yet puts the first human SARS2 infection in 6 October to 11 December. 

 

The largest study yet is based on 7666 genomes, which allows higher precision.  Early October is also the time of reported communications and possible operational disruptions at the Wuhan Virology lab.

 

Emergence of genomic diversity and recurrent mutations in SARS-CoV-2

 

"Phylogenetic estimates support that the COVID-2 pandemic started sometimes around 6 October 2019–11 December 2019, which corresponds to the time of the host-jump into humans."

[silver sea]

49 minutes ago, rabas said:

Most detailed study yet puts the first human SARS2 infection in 6 October to 11 December. 

 

The largest study yet is based on 7666 genomes, which allows higher precision.  Early October is also the time of reported communications and possible operational disruptions at the Wuhan Virology lab.

 

Emergence of genomic diversity and recurrent mutations in SARS-CoV-2

 

"Phylogenetic estimates support that the COVID-2 pandemic started sometimes around 6 October 2019–11 December 2019, which corresponds to the time of the host-jump into humans."

 

18-26 October 2019 is also when the World Military Games were held in Wuhan. Several French athletes caught what they thought at the time was flu. 
 

“A lot of athletes at the World Military Games were very ill,’ said Elodie Clouvel, a world champion modern pentathlete.”

 

The month before, September, a drill had been carried out to test Chinese protocols should someone become ill at the Games in October. The illness in the drill was ..... Coronavirus.

 

In March 2019, Shi Zenghli, Bat Woman, had warned officials that a coronavirus epidemic was likely in China, because of the wet markets selling exotic animals for people to eat. But her advice to shut down these markets was not followed.

 

“Another report by other scientists entitled The Possible Origins Of 2019-nCoV Coronavirus – was published on a site used by scientists to share research. It called for tighter security in high-risk laboratories but was mysteriously withdrawn after two days ..... It said 605 bats were kept in the Wuhan Centre for Disease Control, which is about 500 yards from the market. It described how bats attacked, bled and urinated on one researcher, forcing him into quarantine on two occasions. ‘It is plausible that the virus leaked,’ it said.”

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8303979/When-did-China-know-coronavirus.html

 

 

[DrTuner]

6 minutes ago, silver sea said:

Wuhan Centre for Disease Control, which is about 500 yards from the market

This I've been wondering about, could somebody point out the two in google maps? Thanks to CCP there's no streetview. Would seem utterly insane to have a BSL-4 lab within city limits. Should be somewhere in the middle of a desert.

[Traubert]

Back in the Daily Mail I see.

 

Does it give the value of their houses? That's what it's trade mark is.

 

[silver sea]

37 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

This I've been wondering about, could somebody point out the two in google maps? Thanks to CCP there's no streetview. Would seem utterly insane to have a BSL-4 lab within city limits. Should be somewhere in the middle of a desert.

 

Wuhan Centre for Disease Control is BSL-2; Wuhan Institute of Virology where Bat Woman worked is BSL-4. 
 

Not google maps but these two pictures may help:

 

The CDC still had access to bats, and so could be the source of the virus:

 

“One of the researchers at the WHCDC described quarantining himself for two weeks after a bat's blood got on his skin, according to the report. That same man also quarantined himself after a bat urinated on him.”

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8009669/Did-coronavirus-originate-Chinese-government-laboratory.html

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211291/U-S-government-gave-3-7million-grant-Wuhan-lab-experimented-coronavirus-source-bats.html

 

 

This link shows, if you’re interested, the differences between BSL-1, -2, -3, and -4:

 

https://consteril.com/biosafety-levels-difference/

 

 

 

Wuhan Centre for Disease Control (photo just below)

 

 

Wuhan Institute of Virology (photo just above)

Edited May 17, 2020 by silver sea

[rabas]

A just released Chinese paper confirms that a new batch of 227 infected bats was brought to Wuhan in October 2019 just before the outbreak.  Note. Since April, all related publications without CCP authorization are being blocked so consider that this one has been authorized.

 

In simple terms the paper reports the discovery of yet another bat CoV even closer to nCoV-SARS2 than Bat Woman's original 96% similar batCoV (named RaTG13).  The new virus (RmYN02) is 97.2% similar and also better resembles the critical human ACE2 receptor binding spike of nCoV-SARS2. Way cool.

 

The point made by the Chinese authors?  "See, they're natural", meaning not designed.

 

A possibly more important point in the paper? RmYN02 is one of many new viruses brought to Wuhan In October from the same Hunnan cave holding other CoVs able to infect humans.

 

"Here, we report a novel bat-derived coronavirus, denoted RmYN02, identified from a metagenomic analysis of samples from 227 bats collected from Yunnan Province in China between May and October 2019."

 

Next post, why they now suspect the Wuhan lab had problems in early October.

Edited May 17, 2020 by rabas

[DrTuner]

56 minutes ago, rabas said:

"Here, we report a novel bat-derived coronavirus, denoted RmYN02, identified from a metagenomic analysis of samples from 227 bats collected from Yunnan Province in China between May and October 2019."

Yunnan is where the SARS cave is, hundreds of km from Wuhan. Yunnan is a very mountaneous area, hence the caves and bats. Hubei, not so much.

 

The idea that the bats would've flown hundreds of km to infect an intermediary animal near Wuhan, or somebody would've bothered to catch and sell bats from hundreds of km away at a market (where apparently bats were not sold) doesn't seem logical.

 

The virus being carried by the bats that were specifically collected for studying the virus and getting out of a lab does seem logical. 

[silver sea]

On 5/4/2020 at 5:13 PM, Traubert said:

I know as much as you about where the virus originated which is nothing.

 

..... edited by silver sea (but rest of text dealt with post #78 page 6^^)

 

13 hours ago, Traubert said:

Back in the Daily Mail I see.

 

Does it give the value of their houses? That's what it's trade mark is.

 

If you spent your time following and reading the links you would know the answer to your question; instead, as you admit yourself you know “nothing” about the origin of the virus.

 

I explained to you in post #78 on page 6 of this thread ^^ that links to Daily Mail and Daily Express are not protected by paywalls and so are easy for people to read for free.

 

 Here is another example. The Times has been showing the diary of a Wuhan resident called Fang Fang:

 

“.... it had been revealed that the novel coronavirus in Wuhan was being spread from human to human. Official media sources had consistently been telling us it was “not contagious between people; it’s controllable and preventable”.”

 

 

“By January 25, day one of the lunar new year, people had started to settle down a bit. The media reported that China’s top-level leaders were closely following the outbreak in Wuhan and that a team of medical experts from Shanghai had arrived.

 

But that was also when the period of true suffering arrived here in Wuhan — the number of people infected with the coronavirus exploded. The hospital system was brought to the brink of collapse. The infected ended up traipsing all over the city, in the wind and rain, searching in vain for treatment.We all felt completely helpless in the face of these patients crying out, desperate for help.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wuhan-diary-an-exclusive-account-by-fang-fang-the-blogger-china-tried-to-censor-skhnfr96r
 

99.9% of readers of this thread will not be paying a subscription and so can’t enjoy the diary. 
 

An alternative is to read this article in the Mail, which talks about the Times article:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8327837/They-told-wasnt-contagious.html

 

On your logo, you want us to know that you are a “perennial outcast”, who is, like many 3 year olds I guess,  “always on the naughty step”.
 

I am not surprised as your name “Traubert” is an anagram of “True brat”. Psychologists will tell you that “true brats are not born; they are created.”
 

Never mind, just read the links and the interesting comments by rabas and Dr Tuner and you may change. Good luck.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by silver sea

[silver sea]

The Aussies get support from 62 nations for an independent inquiry! Vote comes as China threatens to hit Australian barley exports with tariffs 

 

 

“China has been accused of covering up the severity of the pandemic after it emerged, costing the world vital weeks of preparation.

 

‘China's President Xi Jinping knew about the coronavirus on January 7, yet China only shut down the epicentre of the outbreak, Hubei province, on January 23, after five million people had left to travel through China and to the rest of the world.”

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8327883/Coalition-62-countries-backs-Scott-Morrisons-push-independent-inquiry-COVID-19.html

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by silver sea

[DrTuner]

Let's see how CCP will squirm and block investigators from entering China. Full on, perpetual trade embargo until they open it all up.

[silver sea]

On 5/18/2020 at 1:18 PM, DrTuner said:

Let's see how CCP will squirm and block investigators from entering China. Full on, perpetual trade embargo until they open it all up.

The Chinese are going to do more than just squirm; they are going to get in first with trade penalties: 80% tariff on Australian goods going to China:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8332719/Fears-global-trade-war-China-Beijing-slaps-80-cent-tariff-Australian-exports.html

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by silver sea

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, silver sea said:

The Chinese are going to do more than just squirm; they are going to get in first with trade penalties: 80% tariff on Australian goods going to China:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8332719/Fears-global-trade-war-China-Beijing-slaps-80-cent-tariff-Australian-exports.html

Commie 101. Throw a hissyfit when others demand transparency.

 

Build a wall around them and throw away the key. There's no point in doing trade with douches.

Edited May 19, 2020 by DrTuner

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, silver sea said:

80% tariff on Australian goods going to China:

Some goods, so far barely 80% tariff, suspended some beef from some processors.

 

[silver sea]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Commie 101. Throw a hissyfit when others demand transparency.

 

Build a wall around them and throw away the key. There's no point in doing trade with douches.

 

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Some goods, so far barely 80% tariff, suspended some beef from some processors.

 

Well, maybe they have been distracted by more pressing problems. It looks like China may be about to experience a second wave of coronavirus, this time in Jilin province, which is near Mongolia. Wuhan is in Hunan province. Yunnan caves of bats are near Laos and Myanmar (see photo maps below). 
 

The Chinese claim to have found patient 0, but it is not clear how she became infected.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8335235/Mysterious-COVID-19-cluster-ravages-Chinese-region-100-million-people.html

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by silver sea

[BeltAndRoad]

Communism is Global, commies in Australia working with commies in China for the purpose of forcing citizen's to sell privately owned farm land.  While this method takes longer than the traditional methods of round ups and firing squads the intent is hidden.

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, silver sea said:

 

Well, maybe they have been distracted by more pressing problems. It looks like China may be about to experience a second wave of coronavirus, this time in Jilin province, which is near Mongolia. Wuhan is in Hunan province. Yunnan caves of bats are near Laos and Myanmar (see photo maps below). 
 

The Chinese claim to have found patient 0, but it is not clear how she became infected.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8335235/Mysterious-COVID-19-cluster-ravages-Chinese-region-100-million-people.html

 

 

 

Mongolia could be G614 coming from Russia. Let's see what happens, they might have had the lesser D614 before.

[silver sea]

Wuhan bans eating wild animals: Five-year rule brought in after global coronavirus pandemic was linked to Wuhan’s wet markets

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8340725/Wuhan-BANS-eating-wild-animals-five-years.html

 

 

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

1 minute ago, silver sea said:

Wuhan bans eating wild animals: Five-year rule brought in after global coronavirus pandemic was linked to Wuhan’s wet markets

 

Yeah well, only another thousand or so cities and a billion or so people they still have to force to comply. 

 

 

[silver sea]

China is planning to build one P3 research laboratory in each of its 23  province to improve the nation's epidemic-control capabilities and 'protect people's health'.

 

P3 labs have the second-highest biological safety standards and are designed to study pathogens that may cause severe or potentially lethal airborne diseases.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8343489/China-plans-build-one-P3-laboratory-province.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

 

 

This link explains the differences between the 4 biosafety levels:

https://consteril.com/biosafety-levels-difference/

 

 

[2 is 1]

Soon here is one troll from Putin!

Nothing real fact never shown ! Already is fact that covid can't be human made! Can be possible that China have investicate this virus and then is get out from lab! Who knows all is speculation before come real fact and real evidence!

[silver sea]

“Now China says Wuhan wet market was NOT the origin of the coronavirus pandemic but it may have been the site of a 'super-spreader' event”

 

“Chinese authorities previously said the first cases of the virus emerged at a local seafood market in Wuhan.

But a study of the animals being sold there rules this theory out, after all samples of the animals in the market tested negative for COVID-19.

 

'It now turns out that the market is one of the victims,' Gao F u, the director of the Chinese Centre for Disease Control (CDC), told Chinese state media yesterday.”

 

The CDC is the second lab in Wuhan and is only 500 metres from the market. Although it is less famous than the Institute of Virology, where Bat Woman was based, it has done research on the bats on its premises.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8369085/Wuhan-wet-market-NOT-origin-coronavirus-pandemic.html

Edited May 29, 2020 by silver sea

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, silver sea said:

“Now China says Wuhan wet market was NOT the origin of the coronavirus pandemic but it may have been the site of a 'super-spreader' event”

 

“Chinese authorities previously said the first cases of the virus emerged at a local seafood market in Wuhan.

But a study of the animals being sold there rules this theory out, after all samples of the animals in the market tested negative for COVID-19.

 

'It now turns out that the market is one of the victims,' Gao <deleted>, the director of the Chinese Centre for Disease Control (CDC), told Chinese state media yesterday.”

 

The CDC is the second lab in Wuhan and is only 500 metres from the market. Although it is less famous than the Institute of Virology, where Bat Woman was based, it has done research on the bats on its premises.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8369085/Wuhan-wet-market-NOT-origin-coronavirus-pandemic.html

And why did this info become available now .. thanks, Ozzies! 

 

Although I'm fairly sure they're just creating a new narrative where the super spreader is Donald Trump who flew there on Air Force One without telling anybody. Or preparing faux evidence for the upcoming investigation.

[silver sea]

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8382411/China-slow-share-early-data-coronavirus-world-internal-recordings-reveal.html

 

Quotes:

 

”The delay in the release of the genome stalled the recognition of its spread to other countries, along with the global development of tests, drugs and vaccines. The lack of detailed patient data also made it harder to determine how quickly the virus was spreading - a critical question in stopping it.

 

‘Between the day the full genome was first decoded by a government lab on January 2 and the day WHO declared a global emergency on January 30, the outbreak spread by a factor of 100 to 200 times, according to retrospective infection data from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. The virus has now infected over 6 million people worldwide and killed more than 375,000.”

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by silver sea

[silver sea]

On 5/18/2020 at 1:18 PM, DrTuner said:

Let's see how CCP will squirm and block investigators from entering China. Full on, perpetual trade embargo until they open it all up.

 

 

Sadly, not all Aussies think like Dr Tuner; some Aussies think the Chinese, and their initial response to coronavirus in Wuhan, are the dog’s bol**cks:

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8412921/Danny-Pearson-praised-China-COVID-19-response-time-transparency-questioned.html

 

Headline Quote:

“'Chairman Dan' Andrew's secretary PRAISES China over its handling of the coronavirus crisis and claims Beijing slowed the spread of the virus to Australia.”

 

 

 

 

 

If BritEng is not your first language, this link may explain the phrase above: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/dogs-<deleted>.html

Edited June 12, 2020 by silver sea

[silver sea]

The Chinese President does not appreciate his similarity to Winnie the Pooh. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416163/Satellite-photos-hospital-car-park-China-suggests-pandemic-taking-hold-October.html

 

 

And during the Covid-19, he has become known as Winnie the Flu.

 

 

[silver sea]

 

Is this article proof that China was in the grip of Covid MONTHS before it told the world? Satellite photographs of a hospital car park in coronavirus epicentre suggests pandemic was already taking hold

 

Quotes:

“... a team of researchers from Harvard and Boston Universities are doing. They have so far pored over 111 images of medical facilities in the place where the coronavirus pandemic began — and those pictures appear to reveal a trend.

 

‘Namely that, from August last year, something was making those medical facilities much busier than normal.

 

‘This exercise in ‘digital epidemiology’ was published this week, adding to suspicions that the virus was making people ill far earlier than previously thought.

 

‘Officially, China first reported a cluster of cases on New Year’s Eve. It later told the World Health Organisation that the earliest symptoms for those patients dated back to December 8.“

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416163/Satellite-photos-hospital-car-park-China-suggests-pandemic-taking-hold-October.html
 

 

Under ThaiVisa rules, we cannot pist links to blogs because they are not considered trustworthy. Rules is rules, no problem.

 

If however you google Dr Joseph Mercola Why Was Wuhan Lab Locked Down When Outbreak Began? you will see link to article that apparently fron October 14 until October 19, there was no mobile activity in the area around the Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory at all, and between October 7 and October 24, there was no activity inside the Institute itself.

 

We cannot quote or discuss the Mercola link on this thread, but it is worth reading the article for more information about the Chinese jiggery pokery.