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teacherclaire

Can an agency create a contract that goes against Thai law?

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2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

only if you accept it ..... anybody can write whatever they want in a contract but the person receiving such contract  doesn't have to agree and accept

Would you read my question again, please? 

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1 hour ago, teacherclaire said:

worked for a couple of years and the waivers are used up.

 

1 hour ago, teacherclaire said:

She had four already

I guess teaching just is not for her. 4 schools in "a couple of years". Time to move on.

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1 hour ago, teacherclaire said:

Thanks for your time. I'd never ever sign a contract with such an agency. i can easily get a job working directly for a school with all the goodies that come with it.

 

  I'm only trying to help a friend who's less qualified on paper. Her English isn't bad, but she doesn't have a TL and she's worked for a couple of years and the waivers are used up.

 

   

 

  

‘ Her English isn’t bad. But she doesn’t have a TL’, and she teaches.

God help her students.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

Fair. If you don't like to discuss it without giving me any advice I'll not be able to pull a good friend out of an insane situation, which was also the reason for my post. 

All I'm trying to say is that if the contract goes against the law then its illegal and any illegal clauses won't stand up.

Edited by KhaoYai
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Inflammatory post removed.   Keep it civil.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2020 at 5:40 PM, Mavideol said:

only if you accept it ..... anybody can write whatever they want in a contract but the person receiving such contract  doesn't have to agree and accept

If you don't sign such a contract, you won't have a job. The lies already start at well-known websites like ajarn.com, where certain agencies are seeking English teachers.


"No degree needed, we'll help you to receive a work permit" and other <deleted>. 
But in reality, some of them have to leave the country to apply for a Non-B at a consulate or an embassy. 

 

  That happened to an Aussie friend, and he told the officer that his agency didn't tell him that he needed one.

 

He went outside, called his agency, they produced a fake degree which they then sent to him per e-mail.

 

He came back the next morning, applied for his visa and all was fine. But........


If that's not highly illegal, then I don't know what to say.

I would never work on a fake degree; one day, the bottom will drop out.

 

 

 

 

Edited by teacherclaire
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3 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

If you don't sign such a contract, you won't have a job. The lies already start at well-known websites like ajarn.com, where certain agencies are seeking English teachers.


"No degree needed, we'll help you to receive a work permit" and other <deleted>. 
But in reality, some of them have to leave the country to apply for a Non-B at a consulate or an embassy. 

 

  That happened to an Aussie friend, and he told the officer that his agency didn't tell him that he needed one.

 

He went outside, called his agency, they produced a fake degree which they then sent to him per e-mail.

 

He came back the next morning, applied for his visa and all was fine. But........


If that's not highly illegal, then I don't know what to say.

I would never work on a fake degree; one day, the bottom will drop out.

 

 

 

 

Oh Claire. That's terrible.

 

More power to you. 

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17 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

If you don't sign such a contract, you won't have a job. The lies already start at well-known websites like ajarn.com, where certain agencies are seeking English teachers.


"No degree needed, we'll help you to receive a work permit" and other <deleted>. 
But in reality, some of them have to leave the country to apply for a Non-B at a consulate or an embassy. 

 

  That happened to an Aussie friend, and he told the officer that his agency didn't tell him that he needed one.

 

He went outside, called his agency, they produced a fake degree which they then sent to him per e-mail.

 

He came back the next morning, applied for his visa and all was fine. But........


If that's not highly illegal, then I don't know what to say.

I would never work on a fake degree; one day, the bottom will drop out.

 

 

 

 

and your points is... did I spoke about agencies being or acting as legal or illegal? no, please read what I said/wrote

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Posted (edited)

 I fully understand that some especially older teachers without degrees do not have other opportunities than signing up for such an agency.

 

    But if some of these illegally operating businesses "would disappear," wouldn't that mean that more schools would have to hire directly?

 

   I feel sorry for those who have to support a family, but neither have an insurance nor a salary in the summer break and October/November/ midterm. 

 

    It doesn't make much sense when you read that they offer 29,000 baht for a non native English speaker without a degree and only 2,000 baht more for a native English speaker with a (real) degree.

 

  Who in their right mind would sign such a contract? My friend sent me his contract and it turned my stomach around when I read it. 

 

 

 

    

     

 

  

 

      

Edited by teacherclaire
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All contracts will include a clause called "separability". Basically this means that any clause found to be illegal or in violation of a law does not invalidate the rest of the contract.

 

Armed with this, contracts can basically say anything they want. If one statement is later found to be in conflict with a law, the law will simply take precedence for that one particular aspect. However, it will be up to you to bring the case to court in order to prove each specific clause that is in violation of the law. It is not automatic. It would need to be proven during a lawsuit over a contract dispute.

 

So the answer to your question is both yes and no. You absolutely can create a contract in violation of the law. You can try to enforce the contract also. But if someone is smart and knows the law, they can go to court and get a clause invalidated.  How much money do you have to fight each invalid term and/or clause of the contract you are signing?

 

 

 

 

 

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In thailand it's who you know, a contract is not worth the paper it's written on ... I've seen it and been there.

If you want things to go right it's a matter of slow discussion and tea money ....  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Sujo said:

I see the topic going off on a tangent of who is or isnt qualified and the standard of teachers. So let me answer the op before it goes off the rails.

 

Anything legal or not can be in a contract. Any part that is illegal may not void the whole contract as such. It depends how bad the contract is, if bad the court can just void the whole thing.

 

The real issue is how can you get a remedy for the illegal act. Going thru court may not be the easiest way. Maybe dept of labor is best. 

 

 

                   I want to thank you very much for your input.


          Is it allowed to post such a contract here, of course without any names, or any other stipulations that people would know what agency it is? 

 

          In my own humble opinion, it's time to look at specific parts of a contract nobody in the West would sign.

It's not about blaming or shaming a particular agency now.

 

It's about illegal practices some agencies are using  to make money regardless if the students learn anything.

  It would be great to be allowed to post such a contract to discuss specific passages. 

 

  Dear moderation, please let me know if that can be helpful for foreigners in Thailand who have to rely on the MERCY of some money-hungry people, considered as a valid way to discuss existing contracts that do not seem to have any validity.

 

  Thank you very much for your time and consideration. 


   I'm doing this for a good friend who's trapped here with a wife and three kids. I feel so sorry for him and I'm aware that he's not the only one in a similar situation. Education isn't free here.

 

I could help him out with a couple of thousand baht, but I'm aware that he won't get paid before August.

 

I have job offers in better countries than Thailand and might rethink my situation if I'm going to stay here. But China, or Vietnam wouldn't be an option. 

 

I prefer less money if the school is a pro foreigner institution over a school that only wants to have white faces to satisfy the parents. 

 

A Filipino teacher at my former school upset me by saying that I can sell my white skin again by signing a new contract.

 

The same person couldn't have a simple conversation with a native English speaker.

No bashing involved, but I felt miserable when somebody told me that i could sell my skin!

 

I'm not selling anything to anybody here. I see myself as an excellent teacher with a lot of experience. Unfortunately, does my friend have a lot of experience, but he doesn't have a BA.

 

He's a better teacher than most people I know who are certified teachers by the Ministry of Education/Bangkok.

 

I've watched him teaching high school students and all of the students were engaged in his lesson.  

 

But he's not qualified to teach English anymore, because his "provisional licenses" are used up? 

 

 I have concluded that some schools only want some white faces regardless if they can teach English, or not.

 

 

 

Edited by teacherclaire
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If you wish to post a copy of a contract it cannot have any information which would identify the school/agency, where it is located or any personal information.   `

 

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