Jump to content
BANGKOK
MarcIssan

Landscaping and planting a lawn

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Michael,

 

Thanks for the comment.  You may be right and I guess time will tell.  I don't know the Zoysia grass so any new information is welcome.

 

I am actually following the advice from the owner (Queen) from Turf Grass Specialists which is where I bought the sod and of Micah Woods from Asian Turfgrass, a golf course consultant.  Both are golf course specialists which is how I made contact and each somehow deals with a variety of grasses for golf courses and football pitches.

 

Queen suggested a 2x weekly mowing to force the Zoysia to grow out and not up and she also recommended the fertilizer mix.  Her project manager brought the first bag of 16-20-0 and suggested the 46-0-0 which I think is way too high in N.  None of what they suggest has any K in the mix which surprises me.

 

Micah suggested the herbicide mix since that his what his golf course customers use.  He also suggested that mowing could reduce to maybe 10 per year once the grass filled in and watering gets to normal.  Before the rains I was watering 2-4 times a day but now that the roots have developed and the weather is cooler here and the rains have come almost daily, I cut watering to 1x / day unless it rains.  Micah also said that watering and fertilizer should be adjusted to control growth and once the roots go deep, watering could be just 2x per week.  Growth adjusts to water supply with wet months requiring more often mowing.  He suggested 15-15-15 and alternating to 16-20-0  for 2 months on for each which is what I'll do.

 

Both offer advice but neither offer the same advice...exactly so I am just sorting it out at the moment.

 

Right now I have an invasion of what seems to be yellow nutsedge and I cannot pull them out fast enough.  I need an herbicide for that but I am now told it works best on the young ones which means the larger ones get pulled I guess.  I  tried Trimec 2,4-d the other day so I need to wait 4-5 days to see if there is any change.  Pulling them is boring but that is what nephews are for!

 

Thanks again.  I appreciate the comment.  I caused me to ask more questions.

 

Marc

 

 

Edited by MarcIssan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2020 at 9:17 AM, Halfaboy said:

Did they come all the way down from bangkok to lay 300 m2 grass rolls in Udon ?

 

Was the new grass rolled up to make sure that there would be contact between the new grass and the old surface ?

 

Hope it all works out well....

Yes they came to Udon but they have a 2-month long project at a local school to redo their football pitch so I was just the icing on the cake.  The sod came folded lengthwise into 3 folds.  As you can see it was a rich green and freshly cut.  I ended up with 50 square meters too much so I planted it in the back just to keep it alive in case I need to fill in some dead spots later.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MarcIssan said:

Yes they came to Udon but they have a 2-month long project at a local school to redo their football pitch so I was just the icing on the cake.  The sod came folded lengthwise into 3 folds.  As you can see it was a rich green and freshly cut.  I ended up with 50 square meters too much so I planted it in the back just to keep it alive in case I need to fill in some dead spots later.

Oh also, I forgot to mention they rolled it as the last step then I dumped water on it for 30 minutes.  It rooted in about a week so I cut the watering considerably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I am not sure if Zoysia will tolerate those herbicides. Your suggested fertilizers of 16-20-0 and 15-15-0 contains no K. You need K in these poor soils. Mowing twice a week for a new lawn is over doing it. The tropical Zoysia lawns are nothing like the ryegrass, fine fescue or fine bentgrass lawns in cool temperate countries. 

Can I pick your brain a little?  

 

I am attaching some recent photos of the grassy weeds I am battling in the hopes you can properly ID the weed species or more importantly suggest an herbicide that can eradicate them. 

 

We have a local shop where I got Trimec  2,4-d but they don't know anything about MSMA or trifloxysulfuron which was suggested by Micah.  He admitted not knowing weed types that well but thinks these look like yellow nutsedge and if so said I may have to pull the mature ones out and rely on an herbicide to control new growth.  It might also be goosegrass...honestly I just don't know.  Gosh I hope don't have to hand pull the thousands of weed growths out...I need a spray.  Back home I used a broadleaf spray and it took care of everything but crabgrass and thankfully I had little of that.

 

I read where 2,4-d kills sedges thus I applied Trimec and so far 2 days later there is no yellowing of anything.  I also sprayed the flower areas surrounding the Zoysia with Glyphosate and the grassy weeds are yellowing a bit as of today but that is a kill-all herbicide which I have used before but not suitable for lawns.

 

So what herbicides are compatible with Zoysia and what types of plants do they kill?  Also, is there a pre-emergent granule I can apply to control new growth...or is that not necessary when using an herbicide?

 

Any help you can offer is appreciated.

20200527_161516 (2).jpg

20200527_161617 (1).jpg

20200527_161733.jpg

20200527_175332.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Marcisaan,

 

What you have in your lawn is Nut grass.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyperus_rotundus

https://weeds.brisbane.qld.gov.au/weeds/nutgrass

 

In some literature it is called nut sedge and they say nut sedge and nut grass are one and the same. They are not.

https://www.imageforweeds.com/all-blogs/weed-identification/identify-and-kill-nutsedge-or-nutgrass-in-lawns

 

There are selective herbicides which will control nut grass but these herbicides are unlikely to be available in Thailand.

 

This leaves you with the only alternative which is to hand dig the plants out.

 

1 Hand digging. This must be done carefully with a sharp narrow trough. If your nephews put the nut grass plants out, the fine rhizomes will break off and remain in the soil. On my own lawns, we use to have quite a bit of nut grass so my wife and I (I am 70 years old) just got down on our hands and knees and dug out sections at a time. Took a few days but we got the job done.

 

2 Shade. Nut grass grows more in full sunlight. We have planted a lot of mahogany trees in our grounds and now that they are over 10 metres in height they are shading the lawns. Nut grass does not like shade and as such, the population has declined greatly.

 

3 I have replaced the Zoysia and Queensland blue couch lawns with Malaysia grass as this grass grows well in the shade. I also cut high and infrequently. If you cut often and short, this encourages the nut grass to regrow.

 

4 Fertilizer. We applied a NPK mix which also contains S. And about two times per year we spread a lot of lime around. We try to maintain a healthy lawn.

 

Now one would think that we would have a beautiful lawn with all the advice I have given. Far from it. I have another problem and that is our dogs. We have three German Shepherds and one Labrador and they dig. The Labrador is the worse. Like a buffalo, in that he likes to dig and lie down in the cool soil especially after watering.

 

I hope the above advice is of some help.

 

Good luck,

Michael

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the news is both good and bad.  The good news is that I finally know what the problem is and the bad news is that I have to hand dig the buggers out.  I have between 250 and 300 square meters of grass all in full sun!  But thanks for the final word on what the invasive grass is!  Many were guessing and telling me to try this and that.

 

I had a digging tool in the states that had a long shaft with a small fork at the end to loosen the soil around the root shaft but left all my garden tools when I moved here.  I'll locate a few like it, one for my wife and I plus 2 nephews.  I am 72 but still put in the hard work to build then maintain what is there.  If you have a photo and a source for the tool you found to work the best, send it along.

 

I put Malaysian grass in a shady area and it is doing well but it suddenly stops at the very edge that gets afternoon sun and that is where the Nutgrass starts.  I hand pull  the unwanted grasses there but the plot is only 3 meters by 14 meters so that is easily managed.

 

Regarding fertilizer, I'll look for some NPKS.  The stuff the grass company suggested is either all N or NP but no K or S.  Do you have a brand you like?  I have a local farm supply and can look around there.

 

So I guess that's it for now unless you find a photo of the tool you like or have any further comments. 

 

Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2020 at 9:09 PM, MarcIssan said:

It looked great but the next day the temps got to 104 and much of it turned brown and the heat lasted a full week.  I watered 4 times a day and still it got worse.  Finally the Zoysia started rooting and turning more green.

 

When I put our lawn down , apart from watering three times a day I also covered it up with thick netting  for protection during the hottest part of the day from 10 am to 4 am.  After about three weeks the turf had taken root and the netting was no longer needed.

 

as for weeds, I do ours by hand. If you want to get every single weed out at one go a very laborious business. I just do 5 minutes worth of weeding in the cool morning and another 5 in the evening. I just go for the biggest weeds visable. By doing this every day , after about a month hardly any weeds left. 

I wouldn't try any kind of weed killer since it might also kill off some of the grass.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there such a thing as weed & feed here? I could find it anywhere in Texas, and a bag in the early Spring did the trick on everything but the grass, and lasted quite awhile. Here I tried a small packet diluted in a sprayer someone suggested and it did nothing. I pick weeds every day, and have for over 1 1/2 years. I started out with mostly dist and a lot of weeds and now have mostly grass but the weeds are interspersed among the five types of grass. I'm waiting on the rainy season to help with the watering, but watered twice daily all along to keep it growing. Never planted any grass, just went with what was there. I have two preferred types that are taking over slowly, but I wish I had some weed & feed to help. I know this isn't a grass favoring country, more involved with what you can eat, so all I've seen is roundup or the equivalent to kill everything so they can plant rice or cassava.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Denim said:

 

When I put our lawn down , apart from watering three times a day I also covered it up with thick netting  for protection during the hottest part of the day from 10 am to 4 am.  After about three weeks the turf had taken root and the netting was no longer needed.

 

as for weeds, I do ours by hand. If you want to get every single weed out at one go a very laborious business. I just do 5 minutes worth of weeding in the cool morning and another 5 in the evening. I just go for the biggest weeds visable. By doing this every day , after about a month hardly any weeds left. 

I wouldn't try any kind of weed killer since it might also kill off some of the grass.

 

 

I should have sprayed with Glyphosate first to kill everything before laying the grass.  The fill was fresh and I rototilled all the growth under several times then leveled the soil.  There were no visible growths of anything.  For sure most of the nutsedge was in my soil because the growth is pretty much limited to the sod edges and not so much in the center of the sod roll.  Pulling nutsedge is fruitless unless the nutlets at the end of the root are also pulled up.  Otherwise I will be pulling on the same grassy weed week after week.  I have pulled some as a test but never saw any nutlets and these will grow up soon for sure.

 

But I have found 3 herbicides that are safe with Zoysia and are effective on yellow and purple nutsedge.  The brands are Image Herbicide Consumer Concentrate, Ortho Nutsedge Killer, and SedgeHammer.  I'll use whichever one I can get the fastest as they

all are effective.

Identify and Kill Nutsedge or Nutgrass in Lawns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, MarcIssan said:

The brands are Image Herbicide Consumer Concentrate, Ortho Nutsedge Killer, and SedgeHammer.  I'll use whichever one I can get the fastest as they

If you want too? order double and I'll split the cost with you? Never knew there was a specific weedkiller for this, I am in Udon Thani also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MarcIssan said:

 

But I have found 3 herbicides that are safe with Zoysia and are effective on yellow and purple nutsedge.  The brands are Image Herbicide Consumer Concentrate, Ortho Nutsedge Killer, and SedgeHammer. 

Most herbicieds have been banned it they coantain any of these.

Quote

 

 “The Ministry of Industry published the list of banned toxic chemicals [sixth edition] in the Royal Gazette on May 19 to be effective from June 1,” she said. “The list includes five agri-chemicals based on paraquat and chlorpyrifos, such as chlorpyrifos, chlorpyrifos-methyl, paraquat, paraquat dichloride and paraquat dichloride [bis methyl sulfate].”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Most herbicieds have been banned it they coantain any of these.

 

Yes I know.  Some, many, or all are non-selective like Round Up but none of the ones I am seeking contain any of these ingredients.   Also the last I heard, Glyphosate was exempt due to pressure from America.  It seems if Thailand bans Glyphosate they also ban produce with Glyphosate on them.  That excludes about $29 billion worth of agriculture imported from America plus the Glyphosate produced there.  If anyone has an update that is different than this on Glyphosate I'd appreciate the info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I posted goes into effect tomorrow. And is dated the 19th of this month.

Source

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What I posted goes into effect tomorrow. And is dated the 19th of this month.

Source

 

Yup, Glyphosate is not on the list (but maybe it should be considering all the successful lawsuits in America regarding disease related to use) and none of the Nutsedge chemicals are on there either.  Thanks for posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...