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Sweden - is the rest of the world dumb, blind or worse ?

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4 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

I'm not so sure about that. If the ones in power think a lockdown will help them to stay in power, win the next election, they will go for it, no matter the destruction and damage it causes - for others.

I think Boris just bottled it at the vital time and was under pressure to copy France and the rest with lockdown, the only good news for him is labour wanted lockdown so are equally to blame

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14 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Now we know that Sweden got it right and the UK got it badly wrong and overreacted those articles have stopped, strangely. 

Now we know that Sweden got it right?

 

Better tell that to the rest of the world, because nobody knows who got it right just yet, running before we can walk stating that

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13 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:


Yes, the herd immunity estimates had been 60-80% infected. That figure is meant as that these 60-80% cannot get infected (anymore), and cannot transmit the virus.

 

We know by now that a previous infection is not absolutely needed for a person to "cannot get infected (anymore), and cannot transmit the virus". Quite a few studies have shown that apparently not everybody gets infected. And this does not mean the asymptotic infections, but no infection, despite exposure. Just to name one study, look at the Heinsberg study of Professor Streeck, showing that even within families (households) only a few members got infected, and, the bigger the family the lower the infection rate in that family.

This is supported by some studies, for example, as mentioned here earlier, the immune system of 40%–60% already reacts on SARS-CoV-2 after getting trained by the common cold Corona viruses:

Source: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

Thus the 60-80% of immune persons estimated for reaching herd immunity might very well don't need all of them coming from an infection, but other factors can contribute, such as the apparent base immunity visible in studies such as the Heinsberg study, and this immune system reaction caused by the exposure to other Corona viruses.

 

Of course we do not know yet the exact details, but we see already the infection and death rates dropping down, a strong indication that either the virus is not as contagious as expected or the level of resistance and immunity in the population is higher than the infection rates shown above suggest. Either one of them would be good news already.

 

 

 

Yep agreed, studies various enormously on natural herd immunity levels and you could be right but we need to be careful

 

Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO’s health emergencies programme said it was wrong to think that countries can “magically” make their populations immune to novel coronavirus.

 

“We need to be careful while using terms in this way around natural infections in humans because it can lead to a very brutal arithmetic which does not put people, life and suffering at the centre of that equation,” he said.

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28 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

 

 

We know by now that a previous infection is not absolutely needed for a person to "cannot get infected (anymore), and cannot transmit the virus". Quite a few studies have shown that apparently not everybody gets infected. And this does not mean the asymptotic infections, but no infection, despite exposure. Just to name one study, look at the Heinsberg study of Professor Streeck, showing that even within families (households) only a few members got infected, and, the bigger the family the lower the infection rate in that family.

This is supported by some studies, for example, as mentioned here earlier, the immune system of 40%–60% already reacts on SARS-CoV-2 after getting trained by the common cold Corona viruses:

Source: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

Thus the 60-80% of immune persons estimated for reaching herd immunity might very well don't need all of them coming from an infection, but other factors can contribute, such as the apparent base immunity visible in studies such as the Heinsberg study, and this immune system reaction caused by the exposure to other Corona viruses.

 

Of course we do not know yet the exact details, but we see already the infection and death rates dropping down, a strong indication that either the virus is not as contagious as expected or the level of resistance and immunity in the population is higher than the infection rates shown above suggest. Either one of them would be good news already.

 

 

 

That's actually a good point. Indeed some people's T-cell response can defeat the virus without antibodies, which has perplexed some researchers. So indeed infection is not needed to have immunity.

 

Of course quantifying those people would very hard to do.

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34 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Now we know that Sweden got it right?

 

Better tell that to the rest of the world, because nobody knows who got it right just yet, running before we can walk stating that

Well if even the Norwegian prime minister publicly apologises and admits she should have acted more like Sweden, I think we can be sure Sweden is doing it right. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/

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5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well if even the Norwegian prime minister publicly apologises and admits she should have acted more like Sweden, I think we can be sure Sweden is doing it right. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/

Absolutely if the Norwegian PM admits they should have kept the schools open then we can be sure Sweden is doing something right?

 

Yep ok lets go for it, thats all the evidence needed, lets inform Dr. Michael Ryan at WHO straight away in case he's not heard of this particular back track by Norway's PM. Lets also tell him this is a scientific assessment thats you've already concluded the results and we are sure its correct.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No need, he's already lauded Sweden as the model to follow

 

Yes seen that, "there maybe lessons to be learnt." Its what separates a professional from a non expert TV poster

 

He clearly does not promote the herd immunity policy as stated in my previous quote stating its dangerous.

 

As in all measures that we can learn from throughout different models that some countries are using, rather than saying one model is the only way to go, we have to be a little more open and say that as this is still ongoing we still have a lot to learn, including you. Certainly me and certainly the scientists and politicians.

Edited by Bkk Brian
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1 hour ago, drgoon said:

Interesting...  I wonder if it is a result of lifestyle or social conditions

black skin = natural sun block

 

living in the wrong part of the world... with no / less sun during the winter

 

many deaths in Usa are also .... black people

 

less VITAMIN D ... sadly the pseudo experts will not test the vitamin D levels

 

they are most likely very deficient

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12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

As in all measures that we can learn throughout different models that some countries are using, rather than saying one model is the only way to go, we have to be a little more open and say that as this is still ongoing we still have a lot to learn, including you. Certainly me and certainly the scientists and politicians.

 

I totally agree. The ideal response would most likely be the relaxed no-lockdown approach of Sweden, coupled with Iceland's testing, Germany's clinical management and South Korea's tracing programme.

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5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I totally agree. The ideal response would most likely be the relaxed no-lockdown approach of Sweden, coupled with Iceland's testing, Germany's clinical management and South Korea's tracing programme.

Possibly yes.

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Is it me or does Mike Ryan look like Captain Kirk?

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1 hour ago, Logosone said:

I totally agree. The ideal response would most likely be the relaxed no-lockdown approach of Sweden, coupled with Iceland's testing, Germany's clinical management and South Korea's tracing programme.

And Taiwan's inside track.

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20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And Taiwan's inside track.

Yup, would have been good to understand what's going on in China.

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