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Sweden - is the rest of the world dumb, blind or worse ?


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If another virus hits us next year or any other year the economic costs to repeat are too great so countries will have no choice but to follow the Swedish model, that shows it's the correct model

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And if you ask questions or criticize, then you're stamped off and silenced as conspiracy theorist. And Youtube and Twitter censor all opinions and facts which are not WHO/China approved.  It start

Time for people to catch up with what's actually currently happening in Sweden. Sweden's per capita death rate from Covid-19 is among the highest in the world, Sweden is also facing a bad economic out

all this panic over what?   look what Sweden did and still does   the rest of the world is in lockdown and economic meltdown   "leaders" of the world, scared by magical d

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The Swedish COVID-19 experiment of not implementing early and strong measures to safeguard the population has been hotly debated around the world, but at this point we can predict it is almost certain to result in a net failure in terms of death and suffering. As of Oct. 13, Sweden’s per capita death rate is 58.4 per 100,000 people, according to Johns Hopkins University data, 12th highest in the world (not including tiny Andorra and San Marino).

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On 10/30/2020 at 5:31 PM, tlock said:

I think one thing people tend to overlook when putting down the Swedish approach is, for the most part life went on as normal.  So even if their economy tanks along with the rest of the world, is there zero value in the fact that children mostly got to go to school, people got to go to gyms, no one was restricted to their homes by the police?  I think this is the "if it saves one life" argument, that even if millions of people don't get to go to school or exercise, it's worth it?  

 

However, in the interest of honest discussion, I am surprised to see that Sweden is getting a new spike right now worse than in April (along with the rest of the world).  I had hoped the open approach would lead to some level of herd immunity.  Unfortunately, it looks like not enough people caught it in Sweden during the first wave.  

Like most people you are misunderstanding how herd immunity works. 

 

'The concept of achieving herd immunity through community spread of a pathogen rests on the unproven assumption that people who survive an infection will become immune. For SARS-CoV-2, some kind of functional immunity seems to follow infection, but “to understand the duration and effects of the immune response we have to follow people longitudinally, and it’s still early days”.  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4

 

The vast majority of cases when herd immunity has worked (measles, flu, small pox etc) is when the there has been a vacine. Hoping people become immune because they have previously caught it (how many times can you catch a cold or the flu?) is a false promise and the ONLY hope for herd immunity with covid is with an effective vacine.

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18 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

The vast majority of cases when herd immunity has worked (measles, flu, small pox etc) is when the there has been a vacine. Hoping people become immune because they have previously caught it (how many times can you catch a cold or the flu?) is a false promise and the ONLY hope for herd immunity with covid is with an effective vacine.

This is very true. In fact I would say that, unless there's something I've missed in my reading on this, there's never been any highly infectious disease that has been brought under control by naturally-acquired herd immunity. The only way this has ever been achieved is by vaccination, as far as I'm aware. If I'm mistaken and anyone knows any different, perhaps they could enlighten me.

 

So it's always puzzled me that so many people seem to set such great store by the idea of herd immunity from CoVid-19 through natural infection, when it's normally only achieved by vaccination.

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5 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

This is very true. In fact I would say that, unless there's something I've missed in my reading on this, there's never been any highly infectious disease that has been brought under control by naturally-acquired herd immunity. The only way this has ever been achieved is by vaccination, as far as I'm aware. If I'm mistaken and anyone knows any different, perhaps they could enlighten me.

 

So it's always puzzled me that so many people seem to set such great store by the idea of herd immunity from CoVid-19 through natural infection, when it's normally only achieved by vaccination.

You are correct but the covid deniers and those trying to say self-isolation/mask wearing/social distancing shouldn't be happenin cling on to it like it's some magic wand which will make all the nasty Covid simply vanish. The reality is that faced with millions dying, governments around the world have had little to no choice other that to lock-down and self-isolate, bunkering down until a vacine can be found. The alternative is just too grisly to contemplate.  

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic

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On 10/30/2020 at 6:07 PM, ravip said:

The Swedish COVID-19 experiment of not implementing early and strong measures to safeguard the population has been hotly debated around the world, but at this point we can predict it is almost certain to result in a net failure in terms of death and suffering. As of Oct. 13, Sweden’s per capita death rate is 58.4 per 100,000 people, according to Johns Hopkins University data, 12th highest in the world (not including tiny Andorra and San Marino).

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the average age was >80, time was up for them regardless of covid

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31 minutes ago, scammed said:

the average age was >80, time was up for them regardless of covid

True, that may be the fact.

But, they  deserve to go on as long as possible, without an abrupt ending...

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12 hours ago, ravip said:

True, that may be the fact.

But, they  deserve to go on as long as possible, without an abrupt ending...

What about the young people that will, IMO, suffer poverty and ruined lives because of lockdown destroying businesses?

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On 10/30/2020 at 10:49 AM, scubascuba3 said:

If another virus hits us next year or any other year the economic costs to repeat are too great so countries will have no choice but to follow the Swedish model, that shows it's the correct model

Didn,t Sweden have a pro rata body count than its neighbouring countries?

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1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What about the young people that will, IMO, suffer poverty and ruined lives because of lockdown destroying businesses?

On that same note, would it not be an excellent idea to legalise euthanasia (globally) for anyone and not limit it only for terminally ill patients? ...and even subsidise it/or offer free by the respective governments?

Would it not help in some manner health systems that are strained by geriatric care?

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1 hour ago, ravip said:

On that same note, would it not be an excellent idea to legalise euthanasia (globally) for anyone and not limit it only for terminally ill patients? ...and even subsidise it/or offer free by the respective governments?

Would it not help in some manner health systems that are strained by geriatric care?

I've already said on the NZ/ euthanasia thread that I agree with that.

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2 hours ago, ravip said:

On that same note, would it not be an excellent idea to legalise euthanasia (globally) for anyone and not limit it only for terminally ill patients? ...and even subsidise it/or offer free by the respective governments?

Would it not help in some manner health systems that are strained by geriatric care?

Government sanctioned suicide. What could possibly go wrong?

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